whoever thought of no flight til 90 in mop...

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10/01/2012 01:17 PMPosted by Bomdanil
I get that it's different for everyone, but for me games are experiences.


There's only so many trees you can ride past before you just hop onto the nearest FM and alt-tab out of the game to do something worthwhile in the meantime. If the world was more than "tree. Tree. Tree. open field. Road. Tree. tree. tree. rock. tree." maybe I could see it, but as of right now there's nothing in the world that's particularly attention grabbing to justify this arbitrary restriction on movement.

I have to agree with this. I've seen all the scenery now, I just want to get from point A to B. Luckily, I just hit 90 and it doesn't matter anymore.

I've paid my dues. I ran around on foot until level 40 on multiple characters and then got a slow as hell 60% ground mount for 20 more levels. Then, I had to use a 60% flying mount for ages until a friend was kind enough to give me the gold for epic flying.

If you're going to constantly take away our flying, then you should make lowbies run around on foot again so they can get the "real" experience of leveling. *eye roll*
It is understandable that there may be some pressure to fly immediately (as with Cataclysm content) due to the immediate availability combined with the standard leveling rush in which many players engage. It's understandable that enforcing a slower pace of progression makes the content feel richer.

Once is enough though, isn't it? I have a 90, I enjoyed the content immensely, and now I kind of want to choose how to experience the content on my second, third, fourth, etc. time around.

What are some concrete reasons for leaving this feature out?
10/01/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Aralesh


I think adding a Tome would be cool, but just to ensure we're all remembering history correctly, Tome of Cold Weather Flying wasn't added until patch 3.2. 8 months after release. Not saying it needs to be 8 months again, but I'd (personally) argue it's not something that needs to be available day 1 either.


I would ague your dead wrong. I will just get around your no flying restrictions by using a 2nd account to level my alts on and my 2 person flying dragon to take my alt where ever I need it. I think that indicated the need for this if you have players looking for how to get around this stupid limitation.

Oh no! You're going to give them more money each month just so you can have flying on an alt! Whatever will they do?!
It's awesome actually.. were there times i really wished i could fly instead of ground mounting it? sure. but not many. However.. will i want to be ground mounting it on all 9 of my alts?? hmm probably not. If they do like in WOTLK and make the tome battle.net account bound and lower the level to 85 I'd be happy with that. 4 or 5 months down the road would be fine.
Its a novel idea... I like being on foot! But the cost. e_e

Its feeling like a gold tax every expansion. I guess that's what it is. Cata was nice because it was 100g... Painless.
10/01/2012 01:08 PMPosted by Bashiok
I would ague your dead wrong. I will just get around your no flying restrictions by using a 2nd account to level my alts on and my 2 person flying dragon to take my alt where ever I need it. I think that indicated the need for this if you have players looking for how to get around this stupid limitation.


Like I said, games are different for everyone. I wouldn't dare tell you what you would prefer or not, but as you can see by the comments here your perspective isn't shared by everyone. As the game creators we have to leverage what individual types of players want against our own artistic and design visions, and hopefully those line up the majority of the time. In this case (aside from the convenience of helping alts fly sooner) I'd say most people are enjoying the change of pace.


The difference is, by allowing people to buy flying at 85, you AREN'T FORCING people to buy it. If they enjoy magically forgetting how to fly, more power to em. They don't have to buy it.

By restricting it to level 90 however, you are FORCING players like me to use our ground mounts. And personally, I hate it. Especially when I get "stuck" on a misplaced rock or log trying to cross a river or hill.

It's the same argument as exploring the world vs sitting in town. You keep claiming you make design decisions to give more options to players, when in reality, the decisions you are making are more restrictive.
It doesn't even take that long...

As a squishy who actually talented wrong (my bad), I ran into a lot of stuff that almost screwed me over. Cata questing, I could fly to what I wanted to kill, kill it, and leave. But in mists, I had to actually go through and around stuff.

And I actually ended up loving it. True, it was a relief getting to fly again, but not once did I think "This is terrible, why can't I fly." Hearthstone and flight masters were more than enough to get me where I needed to go. (hint: set your hearth every time you go into a new town, and flight master back to a portal if you need to go to Dal/Org/SW. This way, after smashing through quest mobs, you don't have to run back, trying to avoid being dazed.)
"Slow down. Life is to be savored."
Fine for me. got to enjoy the zones completely and all the art.

as for asking people to quit their jobs. you are stating you own opinion. And sadly for you, your opinion isnt enough to get anyone fired.
10/01/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Jooshka
You become much more immersed in the environment and enjoy all the little things that they have added in so much more.


But they haven't actually added anything. Most of the mobs are the same. Most of the trees are the same. Most of the rocks are the same. I've been riding down cobblestone roads since I first started playing a night elf back in 2005. The only difference on anything is the pixel count, and that's not really something I care too much about (if I did I wouldn't still be sporting a Gnome as an avatar on the forums or using classic gear for my transmogs). Even the sha related mobs are just blood beasts from Wrath with the infinite dragonflight skin applied to them.

Where do you see these new things that they've added, because it's not anywhere in game that I've seen.
Hurry up and hit 90 and you'll be able to fly again. Or don't level up and you can still use your flying mount around the rest of the world.
You don't get honest opinions here and it's only a fraction of the population.


It is interesting how that flips around to suit the wielder. We're not listening, we're listening too much, everyone hates it, not everyone is giving their opinion, etc.

This same complaint came up in the first couple weeks of Wrath. As far as I've seen many people look back on that expansion with fondness, and "Remember when we couldn't fly?" isn't even in the top 40 of complaints about it. I guess what I'm saying is that it seems really super important right now, but ultimately it leads to a better experience in the long term for the majority of players.


With 10 million players, you get 10 million opinions. Of course most can't form any kind of decisive thought so will parrot others (wat shud i make a panda or a elf?).

Anyway, this expansion is absolutely perfect. I'm still leveling my main a week later and trying to go as slow as possible, doing every single quest in each zone while leveling professions on alts (at least run to start the farming!). Enjoying every minute of this and want it to last for a looooong time. But then I'm not gonna beat myself up too much and will take some advantages where I can - did ask a friend to fly me to turn in the Archaeology quests. Then gave in and set my hearth at the new hub cuz profession leveling >_<. One ride and he was complaining about being my personal taxi service.

I'm still doing the zones solo like I did almost all of WoW since vanilla - hoofing it where I can't fly is just part of the experience. Irks me to see someone fly in the lowbie area and yoink my herb but watevs. Like getting ganked on my alts, it's just part of the process.

Perfect expansion, perfectly paced for however you play. My crazy guildies and friends who did 90 in a day are playing their own game. I'm playing mine. But if you have any complaints, you're not a true RPGamer.

ps. Bomdanil (gnome lock dude up there) - maybe you're just too damn short to see the forest for the trees! Climb on top of that rock so you can see the sights!!

pps. Bashiok: if you're going to give us tomes for flying alts, make it only available to 90 loremasters. Make everyone do all the quests before letting their alts pick just the easy peasy leveling one on the fly.
10/01/2012 01:14 PMPosted by Duckofdeath


Like I said, games are different for everyone. I wouldn't dare tell you what you would prefer or not, but as you can see by the comments here your perspective isn't shared by everyone. As the game creators we have to leverage what individual types of players want against our own artistic and design visions, and hopefully those line up the majority of the time. In this case (aside from the convenience of helping alts fly sooner) I'd say most people are enjoying the change of pace.


But the people that want a change of pace dont have to use the tomes if they dont want to. The only thing this restriction does is inconvenience those that feel otherwise. You talk about how games are different for everyone and how you wouldnt dare tell people what they would prefer or not yet your restrictions pretty much do that very thing. Basically you tell the people that like the change of pace that its a good thing while telling those that dont want it that its to bad this is the way you envisioned it.

Humans naturally take the path of least resistance. While having the option to use ground mounts is there, how many people do you truly believe would use it if they had the choice? Many of us that like this restriction would use flyers simply because of the convenience.

To add to the "path of least resistance" there is also the underlying mentality of the WoW community to "go go go rush rush rush". While not everyone shares this, it still affects them in some way. Flying would certainly speed up the leveling process and for many guilds, "if you're not max level when the raid(s) open, you're not gonna be in the core team". You can give anecdotal experiences that speak to the contrary, but just watching the forums shows that this mentality is far too common.
I've actually been enjoying not flying for a change. It makes exploring Pandaria for the first time more of an adventure.
10/01/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Bashiok
I get that it's different for everyone, but for me games are experiences.


Not quoting this out of context to skew your words, but more to make a point. Yes, games are experiences.

Some of the coolest experiences I've had have been on flying mounts:

- Flying up into and around Tempest Keep. Flying through Blade's Edge Mountains.
- Flying from the horde gunship in Icecrown over to Icecrown Citadel itself.
- Flying to the world tree in Hyjal (I chose to fly there instead of taking the portal really, the amount of work you guys put into revamping the old continents looks amazing from above, just fly around and look at it.)
- Flying over and around the Dread Wastes. I can't put into words how much more amazing that zone looks from above than it did from the ground. Seeing the Heart of Fear (I think that's the right place... Mantid raid, huge trees and sha energy all over the place) from a flying mount does that place way more justice than seeing it from the ground.
10/01/2012 01:54 PMPosted by Ezrí
"Slow down. Life is to be savored."

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