WWs need some serious changes made for PvP.

Monk
The mechanics for this class is just too challenging and frustrating to execute in PvP. Abilities like Roll, Serpent Kick, Spinning Fire Blossom, and one of our 3 main heals, Healing Sphere need to be reworked to be more PvP friendly.

I remember back in early MoP beta when many classes had these aim abilities, that required you to physically point your character at the target and shoot, sort of like a FPS game. I also remembered Blizz reverting these abilities because they were just too hard to execute right in the hectic battle. Well, apparently they forgot about Roll, Serpent Kick and worst of all, Spinning Fire Blossom which will hit pets, companions, guardians, all before it reaches the intended target.

Our healing is pretty pathetic as well, we are the only hybrid class without the ability to spam heal ourselves. Healing Sphere might have been a good alternatives if they didn't cost 60 energy each and only heal for about 2 DoT tick's worth of damage. (Seriously? 20k heal for something that costs 60% of your resource?!) Expel harm is our best heal, healing for 27k on a 15s cooldown. Our level 30 heals are a joke.

Our defensive abilities suck as well. Why does Transcendence transfer have a cast time? Come on! I want to use it to escape death, I've died so many times because I was interrupted or stunned while trying to cast it. Why does Touch of Karma cost TWO chi?! This is ridiculous that I can't use my PRIMARY defense ability because I don't have the chi when I need it. The level 75 def talents are OK, don't have any complaints there.

Roll and Serpent kick need to be adjusted in some way. They are terrible gap closers. First of all, make it so that you're IMMUNE to any CC while you are rolling or serpent kicking. That should be a good start. The major problem I'm having with them is overshooting/undershooting or just plain missing the target because they ran in the X axis instead of my Y axis.

Mastery... Our mastery is really crap and it doesn't mesh well at all with better gear. We're already GCD locked as it is, why do we need more procs when we already have our hands full with what we got? My suggestion would be to change our current master with Tiger Strikes. Make it so Mastery increases our Tiger Strikes % and give our current mastery a fixed 15%-20% passive. There, mastery problem solved.
I keep hearing that it get's better later on ... but, I have to admit: right now, the class is just becoming a little too tiresome to deal with in PvP. There's just too much effort required that the fun is starting to drain away.

You have to expend ten times more effort than any other class in the game just to even do average DPS. So, while mages and warriors and shadow priests are running around, two-shotting everything by pressing two keys, you're busy mashing jab and getting kited. The long build up to what appears to be nothing but average DPS output is rather ... underwhelming. Not to mention how your situational awareness is compromised playing this class as you have to put so much effort into just maintaining chi, staying close to your target, and making sure you don't go splat. I thought that playing an enhancement shaman was rough. This makes enhancement shaman feel like a walk in the park.

Enhancement shamans wear mail, have defensive CD's that aren't reliant on some secondary energy source. Maelstrom weapon gives them enhanced casting; it isnt' a requirement just to do basic things. And there are auto-procs (weapon imbues), snares (frost shock), self-healing, shamanistic rage, and wolves to help out when needed. None of which require anything except mana. And yet, people complained endlessly about how difficult it was/is to play enhancement in PvP.

Now, imagine a new class, we'll call it the Monk. It has no stealth. A lame stun. A couple interrupts. You rely on speed and snares to bring your target down, like an enhancement shaman. Except this time, you can only wear leather, your self-heal is pathetic, you have a 6 second defensive ability that isn't always available, NO innate speed bonus/ghost wolf, no innate way to break roots (unless you talent for it), your mobility is painfully limited, and all of it--even your basic attacks--require a second resource to even be used. Um .... yeah.

Seriously, the chi mechanics need some major work. It may look like Holy Power on the surface, but because so many of the Monk's basic abilities are tied to both Chi and Energy, you're locked into playing the 'jab jab jab' game while your PvP opponent simply deflects your damage and wrecks your face. Paladins only have a few, marquee abilities that require holy power; their entire DPS rotation isn't reliant on it.

The effort you have to expend as a Monk is ridiculous. It's defined by constantly jabbing, keeping tiger palm up, constantly jabbing, using expel harm all the time (cuz you just soak so much damage), constantly jabbing, using a pitiful self-heal, lining up lame ranged abilities so they don't miss their target, constantly jabbing, being careful with FSK, constantly jabbing hoping you have chi for a heal or touch of karma, using spinning crane kick cuz--hell--youre gonna die anyway, might as well go out in style ... oh, and remember to constantly jab while you're getting your face melted off.

As a Monk, you put in all this effort--yet you barely do any damage--and then some DK, Mage or ShadowPriest rolls up and two-shots you without missing a beat, like you're just some speed bump that was in the way. Of course, you couldprobably get away, too, using FSK (about the only thing a Monk is good for in PvP is running away or running the flag). But if you can't even stand and fight, what's the point? Why even play a Monk?

Now, maybe all this changes at level 90, with the appropriate gear? (I'm starting to have my doubts.) Or maybe it's just a function of the 'craptastic' changes to PVP. But why should you have to endure 89 levels of pure frustration before the class becomes fun? Is that by design, too? ROFL. Whatever the case: The 'fun' is wearing thin.
The mechanics for this class is just too challenging and frustrating to execute in PvP. Abilities like Roll, Serpent Kick, Spinning Fire Blossom, and one of our 3 main heals, Healing Sphere need to be reworked to be more PvP friendly.

I remember back in early MoP beta when many classes had these aim abilities, that required you to physically point your character at the target and shoot, sort of like a FPS game. I also remembered Blizz reverting these abilities because they were just too hard to execute right in the hectic battle. Well, apparently they forgot about Roll, Serpent Kick and worst of all, Spinning Fire Blossom which will hit pets, companions, guardians, all before it reaches the intended target.

Our healing is pretty pathetic as well, we are the only hybrid class without the ability to spam heal ourselves. Healing Sphere might have been a good alternatives if they didn't cost 60 energy each and only heal for about 2 DoT tick's worth of damage. (Seriously? 20k heal for something that costs 60% of your resource?!) Expel harm is our best heal, healing for 27k on a 15s cooldown. Our level 30 heals are a joke.

Our defensive abilities suck as well. Why does Transcendence transfer have a cast time? Come on! I want to use it to escape death, I've died so many times because I was interrupted or stunned while trying to cast it. Why does Touch of Karma cost TWO chi?! This is ridiculous that I can't use my PRIMARY defense ability because I don't have the chi when I need it. The level 75 def talents are OK, don't have any complaints there.

Roll and Serpent kick need to be adjusted in some way. They are terrible gap closers. First of all, make it so that you're IMMUNE to any CC while you are rolling or serpent kicking. That should be a good start. The major problem I'm having with them is overshooting/undershooting or just plain missing the target because they ran in the X axis instead of my Y axis.

Mastery... Our mastery is really crap and it doesn't mesh well at all with better gear. We're already GCD locked as it is, why do we need more procs when we already have our hands full with what we got? My suggestion would be to change our current master with Tiger Strikes. Make it so Mastery increases our Tiger Strikes % and give our current mastery a fixed 15%-20% passive. There, mastery problem solved.


Wholeheartedly agree with everything the original poster stated. I didn't expect to feel so underwhelmed.
Monks are poorly designed. I expect a full remake/ near full in the next few weeks.
I"m still a ways away from 90 but I'm already starting to see how a lot of these abilities will be quite difficult to use. I especially hate the 2 chi cost for touch of karma. But all the things you mentioned I believe are right on. This is just going off my experience of pvp with all my other characters. The thing is I was close to being done with this game and monk was the last thing to keep me playing. Something new and interesting and I love the martial arts play. If they can just streamline a few things this class can be a blast to play for a long time. I really hope they look at some of these issues. Not to become overpowered but more enjoyable to play.
I'm only still leveling so things are obviously not balanced, but I do get the feeling that I'm doing quite a bit more work for significantly less output. I don't want to be OP. I just want to feel like its worth trying. I'm going to keep leveling with the hope that it gets better.
I've only done a couple of BGs since hitting 90 but I've absolutely dominated in both of them. Obviously 2 BGs is a poor sample size, but except for Shadow Priests (who rip me apart effortlessly) I haven't had any trouble taking on anyone face to face, and between the 90% less magic damage CD and Touch of Karma, plus all the escape potential with serpent kick and rolls, I can get away quite easily when things go south.

Double Disable + Fists of Fury, followed by a quick Jab->Rising Sun Kick is pretty much GG 1v1.

I can see how there might be some issues with Arena, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.
I've done many bgs and do well in all of them. We do need some buffs though. We need higher run speed, more damage, and should be able to pop defensive abilities in stun.
Remember how much Dks were changed?

Monks will get the same love don't worry.
Look on the bright side. We're pretty great in WSG.

...Ahem.
Lol @ all these people who are saying monks are fine in pvp. Must be awesome to face people in bgs who dont fear bomb you and root you, which btw pretty much destroys monks.
10/06/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Oreomaster
Lol @ all these people who are saying monks are fine in pvp. Must be awesome to face people in bgs who dont fear bomb you and root you, which btw pretty much destroys monks.


Yep, having ZERO abilities that removes fear or stun or incapacitate or poly is pretty annoying. I have Tiger's Lust which breaks root/snare, but it sucks that these defensive CDs costs Chi, an ability that requires me to be in melee range of someone to get. How am I supposed to be in melee range to get chi to use Tigers Lust to break the root if I'm rooted and can't get to melee in the first place?! HUH?!
10/06/2012 04:37 PMPosted by Remfield
Lol @ all these people who are saying monks are fine in pvp. Must be awesome to face people in bgs who dont fear bomb you and root you, which btw pretty much destroys monks.


Yep, having ZERO abilities that removes fear


Undead Monk, sup.
Lol @ all these people who are saying monks are fine in pvp. Must be awesome to face people in bgs who dont fear bomb you and root you, which btw pretty much destroys monks.


Yep, having ZERO abilities that removes fear or stun or incapacitate or poly is pretty annoying. I have Tiger's Lust which breaks root/snare, but it sucks that these defensive CDs costs Chi, an ability that requires me to be in melee range of someone to get. How am I supposed to be in melee range to get chi to use Tigers Lust to break the root if I'm rooted and can't get to melee in the first place?! HUH?!


expell harm generates chi at range bro

bads like you give bad rep to all
I don't feel that our mechanics are too challenging.

I do however feel it is unrewarding to have one of the toughest class to manage in pvp heal for the lowest, damage for the lowest, be CCed the most.

We have no chance to be competitive this season if things stay like this for long.
I've only done a couple of BGs since hitting 90 but I've absolutely dominated in both of them. Obviously 2 BGs is a poor sample size"

Double Disable + Fists of Fury, followed by a quick Jab->Rising Sun Kick is pretty much GG 1v1."


I want to troll you but, to be honest, the person you faced must have had some incredibly low gear because that is he only way that combo would get anyone passed 1/5th their health
I keep hearing that it get's better later on ... but, I have to admit: right now, the class is just becoming a little too tiresome to deal with in PvP. There's just too much effort required that the fun is starting to drain away.

You have to expend ten times more effort than any other class in the game just to even do average DPS. So, while mages and warriors and shadow priests are running around, two-shotting everything by pressing two keys, you're busy mashing jab and getting kited. The long build up to what appears to be nothing but average DPS output is rather ... underwhelming. Not to mention how your situational awareness is compromised playing this class as you have to put so much effort into just maintaining chi, staying close to your target, and making sure you don't go splat. I thought that playing an enhancement shaman was rough. This makes enhancement shaman feel like a walk in the park.

Enhancement shamans wear mail, have defensive CD's that aren't reliant on some secondary energy source. Maelstrom weapon gives them enhanced casting; it isnt' a requirement just to do basic things. And there are auto-procs (weapon imbues), snares (frost shock), self-healing, shamanistic rage, and wolves to help out when needed. None of which require anything except mana. And yet, people complained endlessly about how difficult it was/is to play enhancement in PvP.

Now, imagine a new class, we'll call it the Monk. It has no stealth. A lame stun. A couple interrupts. You rely on speed and snares to bring your target down, like an enhancement shaman. Except this time, you can only wear leather, your self-heal is pathetic, you have a 6 second defensive ability that isn't always available, NO innate speed bonus/ghost wolf, no innate way to break roots (unless you talent for it), your mobility is painfully limited, and all of it--even your basic attacks--require a second resource to even be used. Um .... yeah.

Seriously, the chi mechanics need some major work. It may look like Holy Power on the surface, but because so many of the Monk's basic abilities are tied to both Chi and Energy, you're locked into playing the 'jab jab jab' game while your PvP opponent simply deflects your damage and wrecks your face. Paladins only have a few, marquee abilities that require holy power; their entire DPS rotation isn't reliant on it.

The effort you have to expend as a Monk is ridiculous. It's defined by constantly jabbing, keeping tiger palm up, constantly jabbing, using expel harm all the time (cuz you just soak so much damage), constantly jabbing, using a pitiful self-heal, lining up lame ranged abilities so they don't miss their target, constantly jabbing, being careful with FSK, constantly jabbing hoping you have chi for a heal or touch of karma, using spinning crane kick cuz--hell--youre gonna die anyway, might as well go out in style ... oh, and remember to constantly jab while you're getting your face melted off.

As a Monk, you put in all this effort--yet you barely do any damage--and then some DK, Mage or ShadowPriest rolls up and two-shots you without missing a beat, like you're just some speed bump that was in the way. Of course, you couldprobably get away, too, using FSK (about the only thing a Monk is good for in PvP is running away or running the flag). But if you can't even stand and fight, what's the point? Why even play a Monk?

Now, maybe all this changes at level 90, with the appropriate gear? (I'm starting to have my doubts.) Or maybe it's just a function of the 'craptastic' changes to PVP. But why should you have to endure 89 levels of pure frustration before the class becomes fun? Is that by design, too? ROFL. Whatever the case: The 'fun' is wearing thin.


Things are worse at 90 sadly. OP classes like Warriors, Mages, Spriests just own you, but if you vastly outskill them, you can kill them.

Mage example. I roll into the mage and root him. Bad mages either A. root and blink, B. Iceblock, C, trinket, or D. Eat the damage while rooted.
Now most of them blink. I use Tiger's Lust or Diffuse magic depending on if I got the jump on them or they got the jump on me. Even if they get the jump on me, I use one of these abilities and root them forcing the above example.
When they use blink, I use Leg Sweep once I roll to them. Blink and Roll have the same distance traveled, so its pretty easy to be on top of them again. Now they're stunned with Blink on cooldown and usually no shield. They'll either trinket or iceblock, but since its an AoE throwdown, the stun if it ever connects is guaranteed for 2 seconds even if its dispelled because they need to get off their !@#. (Its funny seeing a mage instantly iceblock while his $%^ is on the ground, them come out of the iceblock stunned.)
All this while I'm pumping auto attack, jabs, and kicks into them. If they get away just root them again. Roll when they blink, you can pretty much easily stay on them until dead since they have no heals.
This only works on bads though, good mages know how to fight you and can live through those tactics, because after about 30-40 seconds of fighting, the mage wins due to you running out of CDs. Mostly due to Roll not having the CD of blink, and Tiger's lust being needed to break the novas so you don't eat a deep freeze shatter combo. Man Celerity is fun but can't be used since roll doesn't break roots...

Warriors are Disarm/stun during their burst then just using your self heals and the melee dance to beat them. Once they hit 35%, FoF/RSK with Xuen to get them below 10% then Touch of Death glyphed to kill. Due to this you can only kill a geared warrior every 3.5 minutes, how is that fair?

Spriests.... Bad ones don't use all 3 fears, good ones do. If they use all their fears, your pretty much F'ed due to fear being the new stun.

And of course any competent player owns you more than you can possibly own them. At least FoF is easy to hit melee with that don't CC you while channeling since you can rotate and the cone rotates with you.
Dreadful gladiator hands say Hi

Chi wave is border line OP when paired with expel harm. We are fine in pvp, you just have to learn how to actually play. Class has been out for what...a week and a half?
Dreadful gladiator hands say Hi

Chi wave is border line OP when paired with expel harm. We are fine in pvp, you just have to learn how to actually play. Class has been out for what...a week and a half?


Doesn't break roots hun, otherwise I'd agree with ya.

Chi wave is good healing, but you have to use it on cooldown to even last more than 15 seconds vs 7/11 classes.

I have an idea, why not make Dematerialize baseline for monks? Fixes the problem of Brewmaster tanks getting completely slaughtered in stuns, helps WW pvp deal with CC, and makes life pretty much easier.
What class doesnt get annihilated by chain roots though?

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