The Klaxxi - Foreshadowing for the Horde?

Story Forum
I recently finished the main storyline of Pandaria, and, after stewing over many of the events that took place during it, I feel that the rift between the Klaxxi and the loyal Mantid of the Empress is meant to be foreshadowing for the Horde. The Klaxxi are, essentially, the wise men of the Mantid race and advise the Empress. However, they also have a sacred duty: to overthrow the Empress should her actions ever threaten the Mantid race.

To me, this seems to be a direct parallel to what is happening in the Horde. Garrosh is going mad with power while several elders (Eitrigg, Saurfang) and leaders (Baine, Vol'jin, and Sylvanas) have spoken against the Warchief. Horde players will side with the elders and leaders of the Horde while Garrosh will be consumed by his power and, possibly, an as-yet-unseen Sha.

Perhaps these elders and leaders of the Horde will take a lesson from the Klaxxi and form a similar council of sorts for the Horde, one that will act as a checks-and-balances body for the Warchief. Of course, their first act will be treason, but considering the actions of the Klaxxi and the Empress' response to those actions regardless of the Klaxxi's sacred oath, I feel that this is irrelevant.

So, what do you all think? Are the Klaxxi foreshadowing for the Horde? Will the Horde take a leaf out of the Klaxxi's handbook and create a council of elders to keep the Warchief in-line? Finally, what will the Alliance's response to this be? Perhaps they will have a say in this new council in order to help keep the peace post-Garrosh? Will the Alliance take this idea first and suggest it to the Horde or will the "One Man to Rule" shift to the Alliance with High King Wrynn while the Horde shifts to a checks-and-balances system?
Seems fairly plausible that the Horde will take up this as an example, but of course make it more... Horde-ish in some manner.

As for the Alliance having a say in it or something, very doubtful.

As for the Alliance having a say in it or something, very doubtful.


Hmm, a thought for a moment then. If the Mantid are meant to be a mirror for the Horde, then is Emperor Shaohao meant to be foreshadowing, and a mirror, for Varian Wrynn and the Alliance?

I know many Alliance deeply frown at the idea of the 'High King' position being a parallel to an Emperor, but from what we know about the Trials of the High King, I have to wonder if they are meant to be compared and contrasted with the Burdens of Shaohao. We know both Goldrinn and Elune have both given Wrynn their blessings, similar to the August Celestials giving their blessings to Shaohao, while Varian has become more focused and even-tempered through his development. Perhaps the role of the Monkey King is played by each of the Alliance leaders in turn.

To further this line of thought, we are fairly certain the Legion is returning immanently, thanks to Wrathion. Considering these Trials are happening now right before the Legion invade, the parallels between the Burdens and Trials grows even more great. In fact, when Shaohao attempts to seperate Pandaria from Kalimdor to avoid the Sundering, his last lesson is that he must bring his enemies to the west, the Mantid, with him as they are as much apart of Pandaria (Or Azeroth, in Wrynn's and the Horde's case) as his people are. Considering the possible similarties, it does seem to merit consideration.
I definitely agree that this is a possibility.

However I will say that I don't think the Alliance will really have a say in the Council itself, even if they express a preference one way or the other. If the indications of an imminent Legion invasion are correct, then Varian will probably be far more concerned with ensuring the Alliance can defend itself from the coming threat then internal Horde politics (provided the Horde is not helping the Legion of course).

Still the basic idea of a "Council of Elders" could work out very well for the Horde. Perhaps instead of political leaders, the council could be filled with cultural/spiritual leaders. I would propose that the council includes but is not limited to Eitrigg, Hamuul Runetotem, Lady Liadrin, Thrall (or if he's otherwise occupied, Muln Earthfury), and Zentabra.

By keeping the actual racial leaders off the council, the racial leaders can focus on ruling their own people and the council can actually meet more then once in a blue moon.

Still the basic idea of a "Council of Elders" could work out very well for the Horde. Perhaps instead of political leaders, the council could be filled with cultural/spiritual leaders. I would propose that the council includes but is not limited to Eitrigg, Hamuul Runetotem, Lady Liadrin, Thrall (or if he's otherwise occupied, Muln Earthfury), and Zentabra.

By keeping the actual racial leaders off the council, the racial leaders can focus on ruling their own people and the council can actually meet more then once in a blue moon.


The idea of a council of spiritual leaders seems to be the most appropriate. The Warchief should be martial while the Council of Elders takes a more spiritual role. In fact, not only does this make an abundence of sense, it fits with the theme of balance that this expansion is all about. With Thrall's Horde, the spiritual side took too much precedence which lead Thrall to make some serious errors in judgement. On the flip side, with Garrosh's Horde, the martial side has started a war for little reason other than glory and ego. With the two in balance, the Horde becomes a force to be reckoned with with a clear vision and goals.
10/07/2012 10:42 AMPosted by Abal
The idea of a council of spiritual leaders seems to be the most appropriate. The Warchief should be martial while the Council of Elders takes a more spiritual role. In fact, not only does this make an abundence of sense, it fits with the theme of balance that this expansion is all about. With Thrall's Horde, the spiritual side took too much precedence which lead Thrall to make some serious errors in judgement. On the flip side, with Garrosh's Horde, the martial side has started a war for little reason other than glory and ego. With the two in balance, the Horde becomes a force to be reckoned with with a clear vision and goals.


Well, in an interview, it was mentioned that the Blood Elves (yay, though hopefully the Draeni as well <3) are going to get some story action.

As for spiritual leaders, I kinda want The Sunwell to be treated as just "Okay, our addiction is satisfied, moving on". I don't want the entire Blood Elves to become Draeni-light-worshipers
This thread is a brilliant look at the mantid situation, never did i look at it THAT way...kudos to you, Abal i think you unraveled hidden spoilders haha, after the empress bites the dust in the heart of fear, maybe the horde will realize their situation is much similar...that is really just brilliant thinking.

Well, in an interview, it was mentioned that the Blood Elves (yay, though hopefully the Draeni as well <3) are going to get some story action.

As for spiritual leaders, I kinda want The Sunwell to be treated as just "Okay, our addiction is satisfied, moving on". I don't want the entire Blood Elves to become Draeni-light-worshipers


I believe that both Lor'themar and the Reliquary were specifically mentioned as getting some screen-time in 5.1. We will have to see how that plays out.

As for the Blood Elves' contribution to such a spiritual council, I feel that Dezco, rather than Lady Liadrin, is being set up as the "Light" member of such a council. The Blood Elven role would likely belong to a Mage, either being Aethas, Rommath, or possibly Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher of the Reliquary. I feel Lady Liadrin should continue to serve as a representative of the Horde to A'dal and the Naaru.

This thread is a brilliant look at the mantid situation, never did i look at it THAT way...kudos to you, Abal i think you unraveled hidden spoilders haha, after the empress bites the dust in the heart of fear, maybe the horde will realize their situation is much similar...that is really just brilliant thinking.


/bow Thank you. If this is truly how it plays out, then I feel that CDev deserves acclaim for their excellent use of foreshadowing. Considering the quality of the storyline thus far in this expansion, I hope that this is simply a taste of things to come for the rest of the expansion.
10/07/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Abal
As for the Blood Elves' contribution to such a spiritual council, I feel that Dezco, rather than Lady Liadrin, is being set up as the "Light" member of such a council. The Blood Elven role would likely belong to a Mage, either being Aethas, Rommath, or possibly Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher of the Reliquary. I feel Lady Liadrin should continue to serve as a representative of the Horde to A'dal and the Naaru.


It would have to be Rommath, he's head Magister. I can only imagine the political scandal allowing Aethas into this hypothetical council would create, as he is already part of the Kirin Tor.

It would have to be Rommath, he's head Magister. I can only imagine the political scandal allowing Aethas into this hypothetical council would create, as he is already part of the Kirin Tor.


Yes, Rommath would likely be the best choice considering his unwavering allegiance to the Blood Elves and the Horde even during Kael'thas' betrayal. Of course, this is all still a hypothetical situation. I could be way off base here.
10/07/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Abal
As for the Blood Elves' contribution to such a spiritual council, I feel that Dezco, rather than Lady Liadrin, is being set up as the "Light" member of such a council. The Blood Elven role would likely belong to a Mage, either being Aethas, Rommath, or possibly Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher of the Reliquary. I feel Lady Liadrin should continue to serve as a representative of the Horde to A'dal and the Naaru.


Perhaps. I'd probably go with Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher of the three if for no other reason then the Reliquary getting some screentime in MoP.

Sunwalker Dezco could work, I'm just a little concerned about the council becoming too Tauren-heavy if that's the case. But if Thrall (or some other Orc), and not Muln, ends up being the Shamanistic representative then Dezco would have a decent enough slot.

Sunwalker Dezco could work, I'm just a little concerned about the council becoming too Tauren-heavy if that's the case. But if Thrall (or some other Orc), and not Muln, ends up being the Shamanistic representative then Dezco would have a decent enough slot.


Considering recent comments about Thrall doing Horde-centric things, I think Thrall returning to the Horde as Elder Shaman is almost a given. This works out well, too, because it means he can split his time between the Earthen Ring and the Horde without putting him back as Warchief.
Well, in an interview, it was mentioned that the Blood Elves (yay, though hopefully the Draeni as well <3) are going to get some story action.


Yes, Lor'themar and the Reliquary. Considering Tyrande is also supposed to be having some screentime in 5.1, I'm wondering if we'll be seeing the first major conflict between the Elven Nations. Or if they're working in concert somehow, I also wonder if the fact Tyrande's supposed spiritual interest in Pandaria would be linked to the Blood Elves forming a faith that isn't carbon copied from the Draenei with a dash of some human philosophy thrown in.

Maybe we'll see Belore and his/her own Pantheon appear on the scene at last.
10/07/2012 11:57 AMPosted by Elenie
Maybe we'll see Belore and his/her own Pantheon appear on the scene at last.


Belore is the Thalassian word for Sun. Blood/High Elves never had a god. They used the Sunwell for their power and never had need of a deity.

Yes, Lor'themar and the Reliquary. Considering Tyrande is also supposed to be having some screentime in 5.1, I'm wondering if we'll be seeing the first major conflict between the Elven Nations. Or if they're working in concert somehow, I also wonder if the fact Tyrande's supposed spiritual interest in Pandaria would be linked to the Blood Elves forming a faith that isn't carbon copied from the Draenei with a dash of some human philosophy thrown in.


As much as I would love to see a Blood Elf versus Night Elf conflict, I imagine Tyrande's appearance is tied to the Trials of the High King while Lor'themar's is meant to show that the Blood Elves side with Baine, Vol'jin, and the Horde rebellion as well as the importance of the Reliquary.

We can hope, however. =)
10/07/2012 12:41 PMPosted by Desidarius
Belore is the Thalassian word for Sun. Blood/High Elves never had a god. They used the Sunwell for their power and never had need of a deity.


And until Cataclysm, the kingdom of Quel'thalas never had a Reliquary.

Elune is the Darnassian word for the Moon, you know. It also references their Goddess. Its not impossible some Sun God exists, nor that, if conflicts between the Blood Elves and Night Elves continue to escalate, that the Blood Elves might tap into a new source of power that enables them to directly rival that of the Priesthood of Elune.

I've always wandered if Alar wasn't somehow tied to some Sun God... Its title was, 'Phoenix God,' I believe. It could have been a counterpart to your typical Night Elven ancients, which in turn makes you wonder what other possible, 'ancients,' would exist under Belore's purview or guidance. When you think about it, Anveena was meant to be nothing more than a vessel for the Sunwell's powers. The dragon who created her was thoroughly shocked to the core of its being to see she had sentience and will of her own. Why should simple power be able to do that?

For all we know, perhaps a Sun God has been influencing Quel'thalas for a -very- long time.
In regards to the Horde-Klaxxi thing, i think there is one major issue pertaining to the Horde taking an example from the Klaxxi.

This being, the Klaxxi are fanatical followers of Y'shaarj, and thus the Old Gods. They also dispise the 'lesser' races, to the point where Kil'ruk has no hesitation when one of the Klaxxi'Va orders him to kill you. In fact, the only thing which saves the PC is another Klaxxi'Va deciding you would be a useful piece of fodder.

Becuase of the near psychotic (and totally detremental) xenophobia of the Klaxxi, its unlikely that the Hode will have sufficient contact with them to cause this type of cultural difusion.

That's not to say the Horde doesn't need something LIKE the Kaxxi, but i doubt it would come about BECAUSE of them. Thrall did try to institute something like it when he handed the reigns to Garrosh though, telling him to listen to his advisors (particularly Cairne) and we all know how THAT turned out. Even if it were to happen, i doubt it will be under Garrosh's leadership.

The method of changing leaders in Mantid society also involves a violent spat where the Empress and challenger fight to the death, with the winner eating the loser, which would only work if Vol'Jin overthrew Garrosh...
A counterbalance to power like what the Klaxxi represent would actually be a major improvement for the Barbaric Horde power structure.

The Dictatorship of the Warchief, be he Grom, Thrall, or Orgrim, is still that, and moreover, is one directly chosen by "rule of the strongest". Note that isn't "rule of the wisest".

Looking back at Garadar, it would seem the Orcish Race would really benefit from having a position of power based on knowledge and wisdom like that of the Greatmother, rather than solely relying on which Orcs happens to have the most spare testosterone.

Looking back at Garadar, it would seem the Orcish Race would really benefit from having a position of power based on knowledge and wisdom like that of the Greatmother, rather than solely relying on which Orcs happens to have the most spare testosterone.


Unfortunately, that's sorta what got the Orcs into the mess their in now anyway. Their over reliance on their 'Wise' Shamen and spiritual leaders is what got them corrupted.

When the Horde was founded, they also had the 'Wisest' leading, though it was from the shadows. Blackhand the Destroyer, the first Warchief, was simply a puppet for the Shadow Council, who at that time were the spiritual leaders of the Horde.

Come to think of it, it's the 2 tiered, counter ballance system that has gotten the Orcs into the most problems from the get-go.
10/07/2012 01:38 PMPosted by Elenie
Its not impossible some Sun God exists,
The Tauren call it "An'she". Though one might add they also refer to Elune as "Mu'sha".

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