Huggywuggles v. MoP reputation solutions

General Discussion
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I like this idea. I'm also a supporter of tabards going until honored and then not working anymore (since honored is where most raiders only need to get to anyway). I basically support any idea that doesn't allow people to get the exalted rewards without doing any work for the faction. Yeahhh you wore their tabard in a dungeon, that's all well and good. But what about healing their weak? Or protecting their village? Why should they exalt you when you haven't done anything specifically FOR them?

I have a problem overall with acct-wide rep in general though. It makes sense to me that since my shaman did all the work, she's the one able to reap the rewards with say, the Kirin Tor. What doesn't make sense is my little DK who hasn't done anything being able to walk up and have an NPC say "Oh, that Dode's DK (not the real name but bear with me)! She's a great person, she is!". She didn't do anything so why should she be hailed? (She's not, but you understand my point).

All that being said, I think the acct-wide rep is probably something Blizzard will implement with enough complaining. And that'll make me sad. Because while I mostly just max out Dode, I do like doing the work to exalted on a few of my other toons, depending on the faction and quests.
Well, really then, what's the reason to have different characters at all? Already WoW is barely a RPG. If reputation was account-wide, we might as well be able to swap classes and gear (alts, more or less) like we can with specializations.
10/03/2012 10:27 AMPosted by Huggywuggles
But honestly, the game most likely isn't for you.


I like to run dungeons and pvp and raid, how is the game not for me? Last I checked those activities WERE end game content. Questing OTOH is mostly just a transitionary part of the game you do to get the end game content.

10/03/2012 10:27 AMPosted by Huggywuggles
You want to sequester yourself into this particular little ...part of the game


5mans, raiding, and pvp are a little part of the game? Are you delusional?

Maybe you could explain how allowing us to earn a similar amount of rep to doing dailies from running 5mans negatively affects anyone in the game?

10/03/2012 10:30 AMPosted by Huggywuggles
If you're not willing to put forth SOME effort to enjoy what you enjoy, than most likely yes.


Oh this is rich...Mr. LFR is going to start lecturing us about effort and earning our rewards...


If you're not willing to put forth SOME effort to enjoy what you enjoy, than most likely yes.

You do see I am level 90, right? Just because I dont enjoy collecting 20 pieces of poo or kill 20 beavers doesn't make me any less entitled to enjoy the game than you.


Exactly. HOWEVER, people who want an 'all or nothing' solution rather than putting forth SOME effort with a leg up from Blizzard (via my P.A.B.R. solution or other some such middle ground solution), are playing the wrong game.

Let's use your 'you hate questing but enjoy raiding' comment. You have alts...some of them are on Antonidas (/Gnomefist), so does that mean that each of your alts should all of a sudden be level 90 with the current tier of raid gear just so you can raid? No, and in fact, I'd bet ...something you'd agree with that.

The same applies to reputations. Each rep has it's own benefits and cosmetic and other such rewards. I recognize that just because I don't have an issue with the rep grinds doesn't mean others do. So it's the 'middle ground' solution.

Giving alts a leg up after you put some effort into your main is NOT a bad thing. It's why we have BoA items, guild perks that offer more reputation, more experience, faster flight path speeds and the like. We've already DONE the hard part and are reaping the rewards.

But that doesn't exclude us from having to put forth any MORE effort just because we've done it once.

Again, let's use raiding as an example. Let's say you raid on Vail there and beat the first tier. Does this make raiding on alts a bit easier? Of course it does, because you already know the fights, the timers etc. BUT those alts will still have to put forth some effort to be successful in game. They won't automatically be 'pro' just because you've already done it once.
Not a bad idea. Another one could be bring back the rep tabards, but make them account bound and only buyable at exalted rep. You max out the dailies on one char, buy the tabard and send it to another char, allowing easier rep gains on alts. Either would work imo.!


I also like this. Or BoA (and expensive) commendations as in Wrath, perhaps? Having BoA reputations is far too easy, and a small part of me thinks tabard-grinding is a little too easy as well, but grinding up from zero on every alt is a bit too much.

I'm excited to see what they do to address this.
10/03/2012 10:45 AMPosted by Glítch
Maybe you could explain how allowing us to earn a similar amount of rep to doing dailies from running 5mans negatively affects anyone in the game?


Because of this: You can only do dailies ONCE. You can farm heroics/instances for rep infinitely. So yes, that gives YOU as someone who doesn't want to participate more fully in the game, an advantage. Nice try though.
10/03/2012 10:45 AMPosted by Glítch
Oh this is rich...Mr. LFR is going to start lecturing us about effort and earning our rewards...


Since we're going to do character audits, how about YOU post on something other than a lvl 10.
10/03/2012 10:47 AMPosted by Huggywuggles
You can farm heroics/instances for rep infinitely.


When you make a thread to discuss stuff with people try to actually read their suggestions before ignorantly dismissing them without even understanding what they're saying.

I would not mind in the least if the tabard rep was limited per day to keep the rep gains on par with dailies


You can clearly see here my suggestion would put tabards on par with dailies, not give them an advantage over dailies.

10/03/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Huggywuggles
Since we're going to do character audits, how about YOU post on something other than a lvl 10.


This mage I'm posting on was my main from Vanilla to the end of Cata.

Here's my druid which is my new main for MoP.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alexstrasza/Ginx/advanced

Don't even try to lecture me about putting effort into this game.

You do see I am level 90, right? Just because I dont enjoy collecting 20 pieces of poo or kill 20 beavers doesn't make me any less entitled to enjoy the game than you.


Exactly. HOWEVER, people who want an 'all or nothing' solution rather than putting forth SOME effort with a leg up from Blizzard (via my P.A.B.R. solution or other some such middle ground solution), are playing the wrong game.

Let's use your 'you hate questing but enjoy raiding' comment. You have alts...some of them are on Antonidas (/Gnomefist), so does that mean that each of your alts should all of a sudden be level 90 with the current tier of raid gear just so you can raid? No, and in fact, I'd bet ...something you'd agree with that.

The same applies to reputations. Each rep has it's own benefits and cosmetic and other such rewards. I recognize that just because I don't have an issue with the rep grinds doesn't mean others do. So it's the 'middle ground' solution.

Giving alts a leg up after you put some effort into your main is NOT a bad thing. It's why we have BoA items, guild perks that offer more reputation, more experience, faster flight path speeds and the like. We've already DONE the hard part and are reaping the rewards.

But that doesn't exclude us from having to put forth any MORE effort just because we've done it once.

Again, let's use raiding as an example. Let's say you raid on Vail there and beat the first tier. Does this make raiding on alts a bit easier? Of course it does, because you already know the fights, the timers etc. BUT those alts will still have to put forth some effort to be successful in game. They won't automatically be 'pro' just because you've already done it once.


The only effort questing or dailies require is an effort not to blow my head off from boredom. Has anyone ever said they just want to log in and be covered in epics? No. All anyone has ever said was they want options. If someone likes doing dungeons for rep why does it bother you? At this point I would rather be doing dungeons because at least I might have some chance for loot and it would be social. A lot of the dailies actually take longer to do if you do it in a group. This is an MMO, it's supposed to be social. If I wanted to just do quests alone I'd go play skyrim, which I also didn't like. Just not my playstyle.

And I do have 2 alts on Antonidas, a 85 hunter and 82 (I think) warrior which I got from the scroll of Resurrection. I never play either character. I plan on transferring them over as soon as I can. And neither of them are Gnomes btw.

I dont believe they should be raid ready or level 90 right from the start. I dont mind working for my gear to get raid ready. Doing dungeons and collecting valor, that's how I liked it. And I actually wouldn't mind if there was an easier way to gain levels if you already have capped characters. I do a little dance of joy whenever the XP needed is nerfed. And you better believe Im decked out in full heirlooms each time I attempt to level something. Even with all that it takes me months, especially once I hit outlands.

I never did say rep should be account wide, though I wouldn't mind that, but I dont think it should be as steep. The Golden lotus rep only gives like 130 rep per quest. Do you know how long it will take to get exalted on just ONE character?
10/03/2012 11:05 AMPosted by Vail
I never did say rep should be account wide, though I wouldn't mind that, but I dont think it should be as steep. The Golden lotus rep only gives like 130 rep per quest. Do you know how long it will take to get exalted on just ONE character?


Which is why a Partial Account Bound rep idea (or even tabard) would work within limitations.
10/03/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Elgreezy
You can clearly see here my suggestion would put tabards on par with dailies, not give them an advantage over dailies.


So let's say that each faction gives you (for the sake of argument) 500 rep a day. That's what, half an instance? Or do you propose nerfing rep gains per mob in each instance to acommodate those that wish to farm instances?

This mage I'm posting on was my main from Vanilla to the end of Cata.

Here's my druid which is my new main for MoP.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/alexstrasza/Ginx/advanced

Don't even try to lecture me about putting effort into this game.


NOW I can take you seriously. And likewise, do not try to lecture ME about effort. It is, after all totally subjective.
That’s a great idea. Blizzard has said they want to encourage alt playing so they need to find a fix for the rep grind.

They want to make sure people have lots of stuff to do so I’m guessing the only fix they will do now would be a slightly increase to rep awarded from dailies and then farther down the road maybe implement something similar to your idea when they need to put a carrot on a stick for more alt playing.
The reps, in reality, don't take that long. I don't see a need for an increase or to extend reps to your alts
10/03/2012 11:31 AMPosted by Sophex
The reps, in reality, don't take that long. I don't see a need for an increase or to extend reps to your alts


I'm with you on that. However, there's no denial it does and CAN have an effect on alts. And it needs to be addressed. But middle ground needs to be reached and we can't swing the pendulum too far one way or the other.
So let's say that each faction gives you (for the sake of argument) 500 rep a day. That's what, half an instance?


This is how I would see it working (all numbers are made up just for example).

Let's say doing 30 minutes worth of dailies nets an average player 500 rep with a specific faction. To make a dungeon equivalent you give 500 worth of rep (depending on what tabard you're wearing) for completing 1 full dungeon run. If you can only get say 1000 rep max from any 1 faction for doing dailies then you create the same limit for 5mans...so for instance you could only run a dungeon 2x per day with your tabard to get Klaxxi rep, after that you get no more rep for that faction until the next day.

Now we have a system that still requires effort, the difference is we have a choice now. Do I want to grind dailies for an hour today to work on my rep or do I want to run dungeons for an hour to work on my rep?
Good topic Huggy.

I'm working through the rep grinds now too. I don't really mind the Tiller's one, but between the cloud serpent (even with 12+ eggs so far), the golden lotus (kill mogu? surprise!), and the klaxxi... it's getting a bit much, especially since there's really no short-term payoff, only that long grind out to exalted (or revered for the golden lotus... and then starts the shado-pan grind)

Some people have pointed out that leveling a second toon takes too much effort, which I disagree with - as people were reaching 90 in the first 2 days. Also with the archeology BOA's you can get the powerful twinking equivalent to heirlooms. For instance I'm leveling my dk to 90 now using the boa spear/trinkets and it's amazingly faster.

However I'm not looking forward to rep grinding my alts, not at all. I'm sure they'll nerf things in the future, they always do... but then people will complain that "it was hard for them" and "blizzard is killing wow by catering to the casuals" when they make the rep grinds easier.

I like the suggestions that the exalted tabards become BOA and give a rep boost so that your alts can make the journey much quicker.
Ok. So let me clarify one thing: I do NOT have an issue with the MoP reputations as I'm prone to maxing out one toon and then the next and so on and so forth. However, that is only my personal style. People raid on mains AND alts and so forth and rep is crucial to this. And I can see, even if I don't really agree with, the problem.

That being said, Ghostcrawler has stated that they don't want the subsequent grinds to take as long which leads me to believe there is a solution in the works or at least being discussed. As such, I feel this is an opportune time to find an easy to implement "middle ground" as tabard grinding rep stinks. It's too fast, too easy and farmable (more so than dailies) and that's just weak, imo. However, starting out from NEUTRAL and going all the way over and over and over is reasonably tedious as well.

So here's an idea: PARTIAL account bound Mists of Pandaria reputations.

Here's how it would work:

Rep would be account bound BUT (of course there's always a BUT!), it's partial. So the way I envision this working is subsequent characters that start a faction rep automatically start at the beginning of a rep tier two tiers lower than your max reputation character.

For instance:

Let's say Huggywuggles has his Tillers rep all the way up to Exalted. This would mean any other character coming behind him would then automatically start at 0/12000 Honored. There would have to be some restrictions, like the individual reps like you have with the Tillers, but your TILLER rep would work like that.

This would allow a quicker grind for subsequent characters, give THEM some reputation benefits but still encourage them to grind out reputations for the BEST rewards.

So, in short, P.A.B.R. would be, in my humble opinion, the way to go.


I like this suggestion, which is no surprise, it coming from Huggywuggles. I was thinking initially maybe one tier lower would be enough,---Even if you're Exalted on your main, grinding through Revered is no picnic. But on reflection I suppose that open up problems because most of the good stuff drops at the Revered level (epic patterns, etc.) So the alts would really only need to grind from Honored to Revered unless they're a shade nuts (no comment).
10/03/2012 11:47 AMPosted by Elgreezy
So let's say that each faction gives you (for the sake of argument) 500 rep a day. That's what, half an instance?


This is how I would see it working (all numbers are made up just for example).

Let's say doing 30 minutes worth of dailies nets an average player 500 rep with a specific faction. To make a dungeon equivalent you give 500 worth of rep (depending on what tabard you're wearing) for completing 1 full dungeon run. If you can only get say 1000 rep max from any 1 faction for doing dailies then you create the same limit for 5mans...so for instance you could only run a dungeon 2x per day with your tabard to get Klaxxi rep, after that you get no more rep for that faction until the next day.

Now we have a system that still requires effort, the difference is we have a choice now. Do I want to grind dailies for an hour today to work on my rep or do I want to run dungeons for an hour to work on my rep?


Fair enough. How do you feel about tabard accessibility? For instance, do you feel the Tabards should be available at a certain reputation point i.e. revered or honored?
Stop making everything account bound. >_<

Mounts and pets were find and achievements were a nice compromise but if everything keeps getting combined, then there's less to do for those who don't like max level end game (dungeons, raids, etc).

If reputations are shared then make it be opt-in.

They had a GOOD solution already in Wrath: Tabards for rep in dungeons and badges bought with badges.
My problem is, with rep only avaliable through quests, I can only play during weekends, my grind will be waaaaaay slower than everyone else's. :(

The good part about rep through tabards was this, but I kinda disliked it, because running dungeons over and over only for rep was more tiresome than questing.

Imo, your suggestion is nice :)

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