Justice and Honor Gear Changes

General Discussion
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Players who enjoy PvE shouldn’t feel forced to PvP to get the best gear, and vice versa


We also shouldn't feel like we have to do 100's of dailies just to get gear also.

I have two professions neither of them make epic gear that will raise my ilevel gear above 463, so I'm stuck running heroics till I fill all slots, or I can do 100's of dailies to get the rep needed to go buy epic gear, so I can start the LFR.

I've always hated dailies, always have, always will. Forcing me into them was not the way to slow down the game progress. One solution might be to lower the 463 requires LFR to 458 so I don't need to be in full 463 gear.
So are they not changing the pvp gear now? Haven't bought any yet as I read this before I did but I see it hasn't changed yet but the jp gear has.
Consequences of this change:
- A player now requires Heroic Gear in every slot to get into LFR.
- Players who have already bought this gear are out thousands of JP and Honor.
- IT IS STILL EASIER to get you ilvl up high enough to do heroics by doing battle grounds (300 honor a BG compared to 30 JP for a scenario).
- PvP Gear is still preferable to JP gear in PvE. It has more sockets and set bonuses that are actually helpful in some specs for PvE.

So basically, you made all the gear I bought today weaker with no effect on how appealing it is. You've lowered it's effectiveness, while still not making it unappealing enough to avoid. This is why people are upset.


I think this post summarises the majority of the problems I have with this hotfix. I'd like to add:

- People that vendored heroic gear and replaced it with the honor gear will now have to go back and replace it.
- People who used their supplies of enchanting materials and gems will have to buy or farm more.
- To get into LFR it looks like I will have to compete in the arena for a piece of conquest gear. I wasn't forced into doing the battlegrounds (I converted from justice to honor). I might now have to do arena.

I have exhausted the time I have available running heroics, got the gear, ran more heroics, converted the points and replaced the gear. Now I have to go back and repeat the process when I wanted to do other content.

I might be forced into asking for guild runs of heroics so I can roll on inappropriate gear just for its ilevel requirements to fill slots to boost my ilevel for LFR. I suspect this could cause a lot of issues and bad feeling for people who don't have that luxury and are using the LFD feature.

Editted to add:
I may now also have to spend my valor points prematurely on an item that I had not planned on instead of waiting till the armor items were available once I had the required reputation. Potentially removing my choice how to spend my valor points.
Consequences of this change:
- A player now requires Heroic Gear in every slot to get into LFR.
- Players who have already bought this gear are out thousands of JP and Honor.
- IT IS STILL EASIER to get you ilvl up high enough to do heroics by doing battle grounds (300 honor a BG compared to 30 JP for a scenario).
- PvP Gear is still preferable to JP gear in PvE. It has more sockets and set bonuses that are actually helpful in some specs for PvE.

So basically, you made all the gear I bought today weaker with no effect on how appealing it is. You've lowered it's effectiveness, while still not making it unappealing enough to avoid. This is why people are upset.


I think this post summarises the majority of the problems I have with this hotfix. I'd like to add:

- People that vendored heroic gear and replaced it with the honor gear will now have to go back and replace it.
- People who used their supplies of enchanting materials and gems will have to buy or farm more.
- To get into LFR it looks like I will have to compete in the arena for a piece of conquest gear. I wasn't forced into doing the battlegrounds (I converted from justice to honor). I might now have to do arena.

I have exhausted the time I have available running heroics, got the gear, ran more heroics, converted the points and replaced the gear. Now I have to go back and repeat the process when I wanted to do other content.

I might be forced into asking for guild runs of heroics so I can roll on inappropriate gear just for its ilevel requirements to fill slots to boost my ilevel for LFR. I suspect this could cause a lot of issues and bad feeling for people who don't have that luxury and are using the LFD feature.
Glad I hadn't spent any HP on the new stuff yet.
Can we get an update? JP gear was increased but honor gear was not reduced.
10/03/2012 06:13 AMPosted by Positivity
Can we get an update? JP gear was increased but honor gear was not reduced.


They maybe having a meeting on this I suspect. I mean really just bump the jp to 463 and the difference between pve and honor is minimal at best.

At that point the only reason I pick the pvp gear over pve is looks. That warrior set looks so awesome.

And also as its been said you don't even have to pvp to get there gear at least that's not how I do it. I get by converting jp into honor. I will do some pvp when I've got all the honor gear.
I have to thank my daughter for being sick yesterday and not allowing me the time to spend all my saved points for gear.....
Looks like someone gets some Dairy Queen tonight!
10/02/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Seaborn
Bashiok can you tell us how this even went live like this? It took everyone literally 5 seconds to realise honor gear was superior to dungeon gear. How did nobody at Blizzard foresee this?


It's inconceivable that they would be so incompetent as to not know this was going to happen. They're screwing with us (for some reason).

ps. can i have my 4k justice points back?
not sure what the big deal is.. doing heroics still gives u loot and justice that u can convert to buy pvp stuff. besides certain slots the heroic stuff is still superior so pve people can still gear up via dungeons.

u dont have to do a single pvp match to buy those honor stuff. i think the system is fine since a combination of gear between pve/pvp is the best stuff preraid.
I do have to chime in here with a couple of thoughts. I know I'm not level 90 yet, but I am a little apprehensive about getting there.

1. This is a small step in the right direction, thank you for doing this.

2. There is a fundamental flaw with having JP gear be lower ilvl than heroic gear. The reason being that running Heroics is by far the most efficient way to get JP. I mean what, 60 JP for doing a regular dungeon and 30 for doing a scenario? JP are far and away a heroic-level currency.

3. On the flipside though: since JP are primarily acquired through Heroics, JP gear is useless now because it doesn't perform any function. You don't need it to get into heroics, since if you're getting a significant amount of JP, you're most likely already in heroics. It doesn't help you gear up for the LFR, which is the next stage of content, because it is inferior to gear that drops in heroics. So the only real use of JP is to replace old crappy gear you may still have not yet replaced since you were levelling.

4. Your own stated purpose of JP and VP gear was so that the player could have a fall-back in case of bad RNG luck with loot drops. With the JP and VP gear being inferior in ilevel to the drops, they don't really fulfill that purpose. JP gear is not a sufficient fall-back for heroic gear. VP isn't a sufficient fall-back for bad RNG luck in raids.

5. I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish? Are you trying to slow down how quickly people are gearing up? If so, you could have just nerfed the JP drop rate, or made JP items more expensive. Right now, JP are an illusion. JP gear does not actually help you gear up if you're in the content that is dropping them the most. It seems like you expect people to only be able to get to the next level of content through RNG drops. If that's the case, why the heck even have the JP and VP system in the first place?

EDIT: 6. Why, in the Good Lord's name, did you make VP gear locked behind rep factions? Especially when the only way to get the rep is through daily quests. Some people don't like questing, yet we have to do these dailies to get the gear. If VP gear must be locked behind factions (lord knows why) then why aren't there alternatives to repping up? What was wrong with dungeons giving rep?

My suggestions:

1. Make JP and VP gear have the same ilevel as the drops from the content that they drop from. JP drops from heroics, make JP gear heroic-level. VP drops from raids, make it raid-level gear.

2. If you really must have players gear up with an emphasis on RNG, nerf the number of JP and VP that drop from boss kills, or make the gear more expensive.
With the legendary stuff dropping in LFR I think there plenty incentive to stick around that they don't need to gate us from doing LFR.

And I don't think everybody get all there LFR gear day one.

So whats the harm letting us progress to LFR a little faster.
Back in 4.3 it didn't take along at to get into raid finder.
It's a troublesome change with horrendous timing but it's better in the long run. I think this is somewhat related to an issue that has been going on forever... top-end PVE gear being the BiS for PVP (particularly trinkets and weapons). It was wrong then and it's wrong at the mid-levels like this, it's just going in the other direction now.

PVP items should trump PVE items for PVP gameplay and vice versa. This should be the case at EVERY level of gear, no exceptions. It's been wrong for so long and took a swing the other way for the devs to realize it.

My best advice for the PVEers that bought PVP gear is to actually try to get into some serious PVP instead of just disorganized PUG BGs. I would expect a large number of you to convert and never come back. I know I did somewhere near the end of BC.

I understand the draw to raiding, I do... but there's no comparison once you play some actual, organized PVP. Scripted fights using a rotation of 3-4 skills just doesn't cut it for me anymore.
You nerf my pvp gear and you can take this game and shove it up your asses. you had all of beta to figure this !@#$ out, and im sick of all the changes you morons are making. Funny thing is your not even making good changes like Making Wrath BoA's work at 90, or make tabards give rep so we aren't forced to do dailies, get rid of the stupid cloud serpent riding license.
Am I going to have an oppertunity to get my JP back since i dont need the pvp power?

I would assume this would have been more thought out.

When I put time and effort into doing something based on the current set up I would assume I would be put back into the postion I was before prior to this change.

Id like to be given the oppertunity to make my own decisions on how to spend the points I have earned insted of blizz saying "oops, deal with it".
the gear isn't useless anymore. it's just...less useful than it was. :p

cheers.
Looks like it hasnt changed yet
I think the smartest thing would just raise the Justice Point gear to ilvl 463. This would let people earn gear through what they like doing whether it's pvp, dungeons, dailies, or a combination of all.

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