SMF vs TG?

Warrior
So, it's just early enough in the raiding scene to finalize your spec before we start getting handed epic weapons and switching becomes a tiny issue. To this end I was wondering how people felt about TG vs SMF.
Especially as an Orc where I can get +1%/+1% Expertise using axes, and as it so happens our BiS 2-h for this expansion is an Axe, I am leaning toward TG...on the other hand every sim and most people agree SMF does more damage overall...on single target fights...and many fights are not single target.

GAH.
/Need guidance b4 head explodes
Dude I wrote out something kinda snarky, but let me tell it to you straight:

Whatever you have good weapons for is the thing you should do.

That's about it, the output is the same.
Sometimes making a decision on your own then testing the results will make you ... gasp ... smarter. Is it so bad to make a mistake or be wrong? Nobody learns unless someone else has failed first.
10/04/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Fhaelyn
Sometimes making a decision on your own then testing the results will make you ... gasp ... smarter. Is it so bad to make a mistake or be wrong? Nobody learns unless someone else has failed first.


Never hurts to ask.

We live in the age of having knowledge at our finger tips. At a time, where people are willing to ask questions, and learn. Some people are just not good at telling what is better, sometimes they do better sometimes worse.


Aaaaaah!
You're BOTH right!

*mind explodes from the 'you got peanut butter in my chocolate/you got chocolate in my peanut butter' type of moment*
Regardless of whether or not the OP's comment is valid enough for this forum, the answer is:

Do what you have the best weapons for.
10/04/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Travex
/Need guidance b4 head explodes

Sure seem to be some excessively unhelpful posts on here to what seemed to be a very thoughtful and legitimate question. He isn't asking "what is better TG or SMF", he is asking what would have better potential down the road since it impacts guild loot priority decisions.

So it isn't a matter of 'use what you have better weapons for', its a pre-emptive question of which type of weapon should dkp / loot decisions be tailored around for optimal PvE results?

I don't think there is any clear decision at this point or you would have likely had some people chiming in with the popular answer. At this point I think you can probably ask yourself 3 questions and gauge your decision based on the answers:

    1. What play style do you feel most comfortable with?
      - Do you prefer having more rage to work with (SMF) with a focus on single target or are you adept at managing your rage and happy with the AoE damage possible (TG)?

    2. Which is in higher demand by your guild's other raiders; 1h or 2h weapons?
      - Depending on whether you have many DKs, Ret Pallies etc you could shoot for a spec which would have less competition for weapons to avoid conflict and help the overall guild progression

    3. What is Bliz most likely to nerf?
      -Based on historical information and what you think most people will use, you could try to predict what Bliz will do based on the AoE vs Single Target differences between TG and SMF and comparison with other melee classes.


So long story short I tend to expect SMF may be a good way to go as I don't think there would be a lot of competition for 1h weapons with Str unless you have some DKs in your raiding core. However, I am also an Orc and I don't mind rage management plus I think TG is a lot cooler then SMF in general so I will probably go that route since end-game BiS 2h is an axe :)
That is a very round about way of saying exactly what I have said.
10/04/2012 01:40 PMPosted by Theodorr
That is a very round about way of saying exactly what I have said.

No you said "Go with what weapons you HAVE"
I said "Decide what weapons to GET based on play style, guild needs and expectations for the future"

Theorycraft for min/maxing around BiS gear and play style for better long-term results then simply using whatever you happen to have at the moment.
That's cool and all, if you had a choice.

The projection is SMF will come out close to 5% ahead of TG and both will be better than arms by the end of t14 heroic if nothing changes from the mechanics right now.

For that, the best in slot weapons are 1hand swords from the current raiding tier.

However, as a general rule on SMF vs TG, (or fury vs arms) is going with whatever the game gives you for loot.

It's a very long winded and most times heated discussion that boils down in to that one basic concept. Go with what you have. Why?

1. Along the way to BiS there will be many choices you need to make about your stat balance. You will most likely find one weapon or another more attractive.
2. Simcraft will tell you what the best damage output will be with your current gear, and what will be more attractive should something new drop for you.
3. Since there aren't any real significant differences in stat weights between SMF and TG, really, I can say with absolute confidence that your output will be best with whatever upgrade you can get.
1. Along the way to BiS there will be many choices you need to make about your stat balance. You will most likely find one weapon or another more attractive.
2. Simcraft will tell you what the best damage output will be with your current gear, and what will be more attractive should something new drop for you.
3. Since there aren't any real significant differences in stat weights between SMF and TG, really, I can say with absolute confidence that your output will be best with whatever upgrade you can get.


/facepalm

This a matter of min/max theorycrafting, not your personal opinion or a practical exercise. Shoo troll, I still need something tangible.
It depends on your role in your raid imo. If you dont have many people with GOOD aoe dps for the fights that need it, stay TG with bladestorm, but watch your rage/procs carefully on the single target fights. Honestly though I see SMF being the better path down the road for raids other than vaults. If you want something more tangible then look at the dps output of SMF during the execute phase of a boss with bloodbath up vs it as TG. Right now I have been lucky with LFR drops so I have decent weps to switch between SMF and TG as i feel needed
1. Along the way to BiS there will be many choices you need to make about your stat balance. You will most likely find one weapon or another more attractive.
2. Simcraft will tell you what the best damage output will be with your current gear, and what will be more attractive should something new drop for you.
3. Since there aren't any real significant differences in stat weights between SMF and TG, really, I can say with absolute confidence that your output will be best with whatever upgrade you can get.


/facepalm

This a matter of min/max theorycrafting, not your personal opinion or a practical exercise. Shoo troll, I still need something tangible.


He gave you good advice, and you're calling him a troll.

You don't seem to know what troll even means, or "tangible" for that matter.

Why don't you pick up a dictionary?
So the general response is 'wutevar weps r beter'

But lets for example say its pvp, and all of them are of the same lvl. Then what do you choose?
SMF if you are going to pvp as fury
I was wondering the same thing about PvP since obviously 2h cost more honor than 1h
I'll be going SMF. :D

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