Surv still not viable option

Hunter
Once again Survival is not a good option to go with. Its great for farming massive amounts of mobs, that's about it.
Even on normal lvl 90 mobs i see ES crit for maybe 11.5k a tick and with crit as low as it is this xpac its going to be crap all to use. Because now we need expertise, what do the devs have against us?
In pvp, i see it crit for 9k, i assume that's against a 1/4-1/2 pvp geared person. So this other new useless stat pvp power only going to bring it back upto 11.5k crit? maybe? I tried surv and i was lucky to do like 1.5 mil so long as i was not being bombarded by horde. Switched to marks, now its upto 2-4.5mil easy and I am still using pve gear.
ES is suppose to be a *magical* type dmg meaning it avoids armor, yet aimed shot is blowing it out of the water.
Why are you comparing a single shot of each spec that fills a different role in that spec rather than the full damage capability of each spec.

Sv is better than marks, and imo fully viable for PVE atm since so much of the heroics involves aoe pulls and/or aoe adds during boss fights. Surv is fine, don't troll.
surv could do with a minor buff, but i'm not having any trouble with it raiding.
I am having no problem with survival.
http://simulationcraft.org/505/Raid_T14H.html

All 3 Hunter specs are "close enough" that depending on the fight, and the skill of the player you should be fine with whatever spec you decide.

The problem is, All 3 Hunter specs are trying to tie for the bottom spot.


Simcraft is bs.

Yes Explosive shot still sucks even after they buffed it.
Get better weapons, Exo shot scales with weapon damage now.
Why do most people insist on never learning what "viable" means? Every spec in the game is viable. Every talent is "viable" as well.

A BM hunter not using a pet is "viable".

A mage using a staff to whack the boss in melee range is "viable".
Once again Survival is not a good option to go with. Its great for farming massive amounts of mobs, that's about it.
Even on normal lvl 90 mobs i see ES crit for maybe 11.5k a tick and with crit as low as it is this xpac its going to be crap all to use. Because now we need expertise, what do the devs have against us?
In pvp, i see it crit for 9k, i assume that's against a 1/4-1/2 pvp geared person. So this other new useless stat pvp power only going to bring it back upto 11.5k crit? maybe? I tried surv and i was lucky to do like 1.5 mil so long as i was not being bombarded by horde. Switched to marks, now its upto 2-4.5mil easy and I am still using pve gear.
ES is suppose to be a *magical* type dmg meaning it avoids armor, yet aimed shot is blowing it out of the water.


One shot isn't the entirety of a spec's damage output, and group composition and buffs also wildly alter the effectiveness of your damage. Do you have a teammate debuffing armour, and applying the physical vulnerability debuff? How about the magic vulnerability debuff? Aimed shot is a 3 second cast. Explosive shot is instant, and it can proc a cooldown refresh to boot.
Why do most people insist on never learning what "viable" means? Every spec in the game is viable. Every talent is "viable" as well.

A BM hunter not using a pet is "viable".

A mage using a staff to whack the boss in melee range is "viable".


I think you need to take your own advice. The definition of viable is

Capable of working successfully; feasible: "the proposed investment was economically viable".


The key part is the word "successfully". If you think that a BM Hunter who is not using his pet can be defined as succeeding at his role, then I think you need to learn the definition of success as well.

For the purposes of this thread and most DPS balance discussions, "viable" is usually defined as "able to consistently put out numbers that are in the general ballpark of other specs and classes at similar gear levels".

Simcraft is bs.

Yes Explosive shot still sucks even after they buffed it.


TBH simcraft is pretty accurate. Its modeling a patchwork style fight which isn't very common in Mop. The only real reason hunter push ahead to middle of the pack is cause we take one of the lowest hits to dps during phases/fights with heavy movement. Thats right we get to be average when everyone else is taking downtime on their dps.... >.>
Is each tick of explosive shot super powerful? Not exactly. However, it's still a great move to use and here is why.

A tick of explosive shot hits for about 60% of the damage of arcane shot. They both use up a 1 sec gcd. When you use explosive shot, yes - the initial damage is weaker than arcane shot, however you get 2 more ticks which in a sense get added into the damage of your next two shots.

For example - arcane shot will hit for say 20k and explosive shot will hit for ~12k.

If you use up 3 gcd by doing ES - AS - AS, you'll do 12k (ES) + 32k (AS + ES) + (32k AS + ES) = 76k dmg.

Now say you just do arcane shot 3x in a row, you'll do 20k + 20k + 20k for a total of 60k.

So yes, while the number of each tick will look weaker, your total damage will go up by using it.
http://simulationcraft.org/505/Raid_T14H.html

All 3 Hunter specs are "close enough" that depending on the fight, and the skill of the player you should be fine with whatever spec you decide.

The problem is, All 3 Hunter specs are trying to tie for the bottom spot.


bingo...hunters are leading the bottom of the pack

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