Upcoming Reputation Changes

General Discussion
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I don't like the fact that Blizzard is making it easier for alts to get reputation faster, but that aspect is not what is making me concerned about this blue post. I would just keep things the way they are right now.

The section of the blue post that bothers me the most is the double reputation gain between revered to exalted. I don't see why extending the game further is a bad thing. Since getting reputation is not mandatory in the game as characters can gear up through heroics, LFR and raids what is the issue with making the questing a long process to getting the nice results and keep people out in the world? I am a person who likes BGs, Arenas, Dungeons, Raids and questing and I have routinely left the game in the other expansion packs because I ran out of content to play. Changes to content like this result in lost interest from me and lost revenue for Blizzard. Shortening the end goal for reputation does not seem like a smart move in my opinion and I might be in the same boat 2 months down the road if I run out of things to progress through.
You know what would be icing on the cake? Account-wide tabards.
In Mists we’ve changed the reward structure in a way that we feel makes for a better, more diverse gameplay experience.

The "better" more diverse experience would've been one based on player choice. Allowing players to choose the combination of questing, dungeons, pvp, and raids that makes sense to them would've been fantastic.

But instead of optional diversity, what you gave us was forced diversity. The truth was I loved the versions of WoW that allowed me to concentrate my time on the activities I enjoyed. All dungeons and all raids was a fantastic game. To me that's whats unique about WoW and why I play here.

The other major thing you did was change the minimum viable hours per week a raider could play. At the end of cata I raided for 9 hours a week and was logged on for maybe 10. That was perfect. That's also about what my schedule can afford. Now, if I want to be on that same 9 hour team, I also have to sign up for what seems like at least another 9 hours or probably even more of dailies. How is that a good thing? And here's a hint, I'm not trading 9 hours of raiding for 9 hours of dailies. If that's my only choice, my preference is to not play at all.


This.

Essential items such as valor gear and crafting recipes need the rep requirement removed. When my crafting alts hit 85, I basically don't have a choice but to get them to 90 and grind rep in order to get basic crafting recipes (belt buckle recipe for blacksmiths for example). Some of us really don't like being forced to go through the same zones and do the same thing multiple times when leveling different alts. That was the biggest gripe about Therazane and why head enchants were removed. It's funny how Blizzard made a positive change (removing the Therazane grind) yet managed to make a grind that's several times worse because you have to grind multiple factions instead of just one. I'm already doing the grind twice, and not sure I have it in me to do it any more times than that.
10/05/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Crithto
In Mists we’ve changed the reward structure in a way that we feel makes for a better, more diverse gameplay experience.
You didn't, though, and that is the problem. You will make the argument that better is subjective, but that's a really weak argument.

What you have done is forced those people that have absolutely no interest in the diversity of the factions to go through the motions of hundreds and hundreds of dailies to get _ANYTHING AT ALL_ from said factions.

I've said it in other threads but it cannot be said enough: What you offered with MoP was the promise of more CHOICE. What you delivered, through any measure stick, was more mandatory content. You offset this by saying that getting rep and doing these quests is not actually mandatory, which is a really asinine argument tantamount to saying you don't have to play if you don't want to.

What I was expecting going into mop was that I, as a player who has a waining and waxing style interest in storylines, is content that would keep me interested for more time than previously with more engaging story and content, which I got. But what it offered me that I was not expecting and do not want is a requirement that my interest in said storyline, and an attached love for doing absolutely plain, dull kill-gather-return quests ad infinitum, to get anything out of even those parts of the game that I DO like.
10/05/2012 07:11 PMPosted by Crithto
In Mists we’ve changed the reward structure in a way that we feel makes for a better, more diverse gameplay experience.


Unfortunately, I don't want diversity in my WoW experience. I like a few things in WoW a lot. I like them enough that I'll gladly pay you guys to do just those few things, but I honestly don't like most of WoW. I don't mean you guys any offense, as obviously you do an awesome job and tons of people are really enjoying the stuff I don't like. I just know what I like, and enjoy spending my time doing what I like.

To be fair, I did try the quests and dailies before completely dismissing them. I did quite a bit of the 89-90 zone and some dailies in that zone. The quests/dailies are calm and relaxing, which would appeal to me if I were sick or stressed out. But I'm normally in the mood for the exact opposite of calm and relaxing when I sit down to play WoW.
I'm almost honored with Golden Lotus. Between GL, Serpent, Klaxxi, Anglers, Tillers which is 37 dailies for me it only takes < 2 hours to do. Even when I get my 2nd main toon to 90, that is 4 hours a day .. and I average 10-12. I know not everyone plays as much as I do, but it really isn't that hard or takes that long for dailies, just come up with a plan and hammer them out.
I'm almost honored with Golden Lotus. Between GL, Serpent, Klaxxi, Anglers, Tillers which is 37 dailies for me it only takes < 2 hours to do. Even when I get my 2nd main toon to 90, that is 4 hours a day .. and I average 10-12. I know not everyone plays as much as I do, but it really isn't that hard or takes that long for dailies, just come up with a plan and hammer them out.
Do you understand how ridiculous what you just typed sounds?

2 HOURS A DAY to do things that people don't really want to do, but feel they are forced to do. 2 HOURS, before you can even think about doing what you want to be doing in the game.

Utterly ridiculous.

For some people, that is essentially equivalent to a 2 hour queue before they can actually start playing - only they can't afk through it.
omg. blizz. i think im inlove again. and the meme reference seals the deal. me you. a candle light dinner in paris with wine. okay?
Make Valor gear and Rep gear seperate sets with similar stats/bonuses. Give players the option to choose to gear by dungeons or gear by questing. Done. Problem solved.

Also make the tabards BOA and only earned when exalted with the Faction, and allow the tabards to increase rep gains with the faction by 100% while questing and while in dungeon you gain 50% increase rep from that faction. Again this will give players the option and promote questing with those factions on your alts as to dungeoning, but dungeoning still an option to those players who HATE doing dailies.
I agree with many people in this thread that removing the tabard took away options from people the same way you guys changed the way we went after Justice Points. It should be up to the player to decide if they simply want to grind out the factions with quests or run a dungeon. To be honest, the first time around I'm more inclined to do dailies, but on all of my alts? No way. I'd rather settle for the tabard and run dungeons with people or for fun.

There are people who do enjoy doing dailies, and that's great. They have something to do, but after grinding out Tol Barad and now Firelands, I'm tired of the grinding and would rather just grind it out in dungeons.

I really hope you guys reconsider and add tabards back in for those who want to go that way. Sure, it was impersonal, but if people want to follow the story, they can always do the quests.

-EDarkness
Holy/Disc priest changes coming soon?
10/06/2012 03:25 AMPosted by Jêrseydevil
One of the most asked questions so far is, what gives with the tabard changes? When we introduced reputation tabards in The Burning Crusade, they were set to be used as a means to gain attunement for raiding. Sadly, the specificity of each tabard made it so they discouraged players from running dungeons together. If one player needed reputation from one dungeon, while his friend needed it for another, the two ended up not playing together when they would have liked to. You saw the shift away from this philosophy during Wrath of the Lich King and on into Cataclysm. For Mists of Pandaria, though, we feel dungeons are already rewarding so it made the most sense to have reputation earned by doing things for each particular faction. The various factions are what really bring a lot of the flavor and character to the world of Pandaria. We weren’t very happy that the status quo in Cataclysm was to virtually ignore most factions and what they’re about, by instead doing the fairly unrelated task of running dungeons. It provided a way for players to essentially double dip on rewards from dungeons and faction reputations simply by putting on a shirt when queuing. In Mists we’ve changed the reward structure in a way that we feel makes for a better, more diverse gameplay experience.


You guys got it so wrong it's not even funny.
Here's my problem- I love raiding/dungeons. I hate questing. I have Several High level toons(1 -90, 9-85+'s) I have not started leveling any other toons because i'm too busy doing Dailies to unlock the gear I need to show up to a raid prepared. The dailies take forever to complete and more importantly I Hate doing them!!!! Let me say it again-I STRONGLY dislike Dailies!

I never had a problem running with friends in 5 man content. Never. And if my friends weren't on or wanted nothing to do with a dungeon I wanted/needed, there's this nifty tool called "Dungeon Finder" that puts a group together for me....most amazing thing ya ever saw lol.

I can not understand for the life of me why you guys would attach VP/JP gear to Dailies??? I am not asking for the gear to be handed to us! I don't mind doing a lot of dungeons to EARN my VP/JP gear. I really don't mind. I DO mind having to Quest so that I can Raid. And not only do I have to do it on one toon, I also have to do all those dailies on my other toons if I wish to raid with more than one toon. How ridiculous is that?!

And not to bring dedicated Pvper's into this but... How come a Pvper can just jump right in and start Pvping? Buy/make a FULL CRAFTED set and jump right in and start having fun in BG's/arena. Hell, they don't even need to buy gear, they can just hop right on in and "wing it " until they get some good gear. I am not saying make Pvper's do dailies before they can PVP cause that would just be Stupid and ridiculous!

Finally, There's nothing wrong with dailies. To the many people out there who enjoy them, more power to ya! I hope everyone of you have many hours of enjoyment doing them!!! But dailies should be a way to make gold and earn the some of the awesome cosmetic gear(mounts/pets/tabards/vanity items) this game has to offer. They should not be the only way to obtain DUNGEON gear!

Dailies should be a Option and not forced onto us! I'm not lazy, I just despise questing/dailies! And there's only so much time in a day!!! /end rant


You can gear up completely through dungeons. You don't need to do a single daily if you don't want to. Heroics give 463 gear which is adequate for both LFR and Normal mode Raiding. You then proceed to gear up through those two available venues. There is absolutely no requirement (unless it's being placed arbitrarily by yourself or your guild - in which case it's on you/them and up to you to decide if it's worth it) to do dailies. There are multiple paths of progression available for PvE and none of them are mandatory.

Dungeons - Scenarios - Heroics - LFR/Normal - Heroic

Dialies that award Valor and rep - Gear available at Honored and Revered with factions.

See that there ^ two different routes of progression, neither of which is mandatory. If you choose to partake in both that is your CHOICE, not Blizzard forcing you to do so.

EDIT: Additionally, the choice to play and attempt to gear multiple characters is also your choice, Blizzard shouldn't base progression balance around people having multiple characters because not everyone enjoys having multiple characters and would prefer not running out of stuff to do in 1/10th the time because they don't have every class they want to level and play.
You can gear up completely through dungeons. You don't need to do a single daily if you don't want to. Heroics give 463 gear which is adequate for both LFR and Normal mode Raiding. You then proceed to gear up through those two available venues. There is absolutely no requirement (unless it's being placed arbitrarily by yourself or your guild - in which case it's on you/them and up to you to decide if it's worth it) to do dailies. There are multiple paths of progression available for PvE and none of them are mandatory.

Dungeons - Scenarios - Heroics - LFR/Normal - Heroic

Dialies that award Valor and rep - Gear available at Honored and Revered with factions.

See that there ^ two different routes of progression, neither of which is mandatory. If you choose to partake in both that is your CHOICE, not Blizzard forcing you to do so.

EDIT: Additionally, the choice to play and attempt to gear multiple characters is also your choice, Blizzard shouldn't base progression balance around people having multiple characters because not everyone enjoys having multiple characters and would prefer not running out of stuff to do in 1/10th the time because they don't have every class they want to level and play.

If doing both is the most efficient way to gear, it is not a choice. That is the same argument Blizzard tried to posit for LFR, and they were wrong (ie: any and every significant raiding group spent a massive amount of time in Cata LFR for set bonuses, and will do the same next week in MoP). Choice implies either or - in this case the choice is not "do dungeons, do questing, or mix and match". The choice here is "do both questing AND dungeons, or gear more slowly than otherwise". That is the issue.

Saying something is a "choice" when it is the most efficient way is like saying "you can choose not to play if you want to"; it is applying the semantically literal version of the word to substantiate a completely irrational point of view. Choice, in this case, implies that doing EITHER should be equally effective. The reality is that doing anything less than both is significantly LESS effective.

It's like when people say they want more of a challenge from raiding, and Blizzard says "you can turn off the buff if you want to". Well yeah, and football players could provide themselves with more of a challenge by chopping off their left feet too, but that's equally unlikely.
Cheers!

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