What a stats should a Protadin stack?

Paladin
Recently, while in groups... people have been having issues with me "not having enough dps as tank" and honestly? instead of trying to be a rebel and fight everyone, what is the most effective stats to stack, to maximize tanking as well as dps, as well as a possible preferred rotation?

For stats, I would normally go into parry mastery or expertise... Unless I need to focus other wise, it'd help.

Also for "rotation" I would:
    Avengers Shield
    Consecration
    Hammer of Righteous
    Judgement(Seal of Insight)
    Eternal Flame(at 5 holy power(leaving 2 Holy power left))
    then Shield of the Righteous


Honestly, If that isn't an effective rotation, its what I find effective to keep aggro.

If I am doing something wrong, I am all ears, to improve myself...
You're rotation is very off.

The Normal Prot Rotation is as Followed.

CS and Judge on CD.
AS with GC proc
AS w/o GC proc
HoR Sub 20
HoW and Conc

Also, keep weakened blows up if you don't have anyone with it via HoR.

For AoE. HoR instead of CS. Conc over AS, and Swap up to Seal of Right.

Spec Wise. drop Eternal Flame. Pick up Sacred Shield. Also Drop SW and get DP in you're 5th tier.

Stat Wise, you want to go Active medigation. Meaning Stam, Mastery, and hit/exp to Cap.

This allows you to generate HoPo without missing. Which in turn lets you dish out more SoR, which keeps your Damage Reduction buff Up (Active Medigation.) This also in turn stacks your WoG buff, which then heals you for more after 5 SoRs.

Also, for your Spec. Drop Eternal Flame and get Sacred Shield. Also, drop Sanc. wrath and get Divine Purpose.
wait a second, are you saying stack stam/mastery/hit/exp over dodge and parry....

seems like a crazy idea if you ask me
wait a second, are you saying stack stam/mastery/hit/exp over dodge and parry....

seems like a crazy idea if you ask me


Wow, Why don't you help him instead of being a complete !@# and trolling him... He IS asking for help after all, stupid ebay...
i was talking to the dude who replied... not to the guy posting
wait a second, are you saying stack stam/mastery/hit/exp over dodge and parry....

seems like a crazy idea if you ask me

asks help to become a better player
gets treated like !@#$... thanks noob.
I'm not certain myself to be honest haven't done heroics yet but I would assume its the Dodge/parry/mastery then hit/exp

that better for you Dear, someones a bit touchy
yes I'm the noob, not you who is on here asking for advice.

Jeezus people on this forum are touchy.
Tbh trying to get 18% Parry/Dodge is always good, then Hit then Mastery, May be mastery over hit nowadays but you'll have to figure that out, considering im not tanking at all yet this expan.

After that just do AS for Ranged pulls the HoR(CS If single Target, also make sure to keep HoR's debuff up), RS when possible always AS on procs, HW when possible(Does nice dps and Threat), and tbh I like the Selfless Healer talent better considering your going to be spamming judgements on free GCD's anyways, 3 jugdes = free flash heal thats 105% effectiveness.

Also it would be better then SS since, SS scales with SP and prot doesnt have a !@#$ load of it to make it worth it in my opinion, EF just sucks, You would need 6 EFs on someone to make it worth it even being talented for every spec.

If you like wasting money, swap Sentence for bosses and keep Lights Hammer for pulls. ^^

Thats about all I can help with tbh.
Ensure your close to hit/exp cap/softcap then mastery is priority, the way that Prot tanking works now, you wanna ensure that your Shield of the Righteous hits often as possible to reduce damage, now this will leave you with spikes of damage between uptimes, but its not too bad.

Dodge/parry are priorities over exp/hit after your caps, which with heroic dungeon gear still won't be a whole lot, and dodge/parry really only make you take "Spike" damage, which can be hard on healers.

hit (7.5%)=expertise(7.5%)>Mastery>parry>dodge(dodge has faster diminishing returns)
yes I'm the noob, not you who is on here asking for advice.

Jeezus people on this forum are touchy.

The response you received could have made a difference if you used quotes, without them, they didn't know if you were talking to Madil or the other commenter
yes I'm the noob, not you who is on here asking for advice.

Jeezus people on this forum are touchy.

The response you received could have made a difference if you used quotes, without them, they didn't know if you were talking to Madil or the other commenter


mm you do have a point i will make sure to do that in future... but still getting so mad over such a small thing.

(hyperion btw) on wrong profile woops
10/02/2012 11:02 PMPosted by Xluthus
Tbh trying to get 18% Parry/Dodge is always good, then Hit then Mastery, May be mastery over hit nowadays but you'll have to figure that out, considering im not tanking at all yet this expan.


No. Tanking has changed so much from what it was in Cata. Even if it didn't change at all, why would you take Dodge/Parry over Mastery? Mastery is the BEST stat for a Tank. Parry/dodge have always been secondary stats Pre MoP

It is no longer possible to get CTC capped. Dodge and Parry now have different DR.

If I remember correctly you was to have 2 or 3 Times more Parry than dodge.

If you go Dodge/Parry over mastery you will become super spikey in terms of damage.

Having Nearly capped gives you 100% HoPo generation. Meaning, the more HoPo you generate, the more you can keep your SoR reduction active.

If a Boss hits for 300k. Active Medigation reduces it by lets say 50% for the sake of this. Menaing over the course of a fight, you're only taking 150k damage per a melee attack. If you go Dodge/parry, Sure, you can fully avoid attacks, but you will have very un-reliable HoPo generation, and will be getting hit for a lot more than an active medigation tank would.

I don't want to be the Bad Guy here, but you even said you haven't tanked yet this Expac. You are in no place to give advice to someone when you haven't experienced any of the changes first hand.

TL;DR Mastery > Parry/Dodge - Stacking parry/Dodge makes you super Spikey. Having capped hit/Exp gives you HoPo generation to keep you SoR Buff (Which is your Medigation) active. Active Medigation > Stacking Avoidance
Ensure your close to hit/exp cap/softcap then mastery is priority, the way that Prot tanking works now, you wanna ensure that your Shield of the Righteous hits often as possible to reduce damage, now this will leave you with spikes of damage between uptimes, but its not too bad.

Dodge/parry are priorities over exp/hit after your caps, which with heroic dungeon gear still won't be a whole lot, and dodge/parry really only make you take "Spike" damage, which can be hard on healers.

hit (7.5%)=expertise(7.5%)>Mastery>parry>dodge(dodge has faster diminishing returns)


Why would you preference stats like hit/exp over mitigation? seems strange.
Ensure your close to hit/exp cap/softcap then mastery is priority, the way that Prot tanking works now, you wanna ensure that your Shield of the Righteous hits often as possible to reduce damage, now this will leave you with spikes of damage between uptimes, but its not too bad.

Dodge/parry are priorities over exp/hit after your caps, which with heroic dungeon gear still won't be a whole lot, and dodge/parry really only make you take "Spike" damage, which can be hard on healers.

hit (7.5%)=expertise(7.5%)>Mastery>parry>dodge(dodge has faster diminishing returns)


Why would you preference stats like hit/exp over mitigation? seems strange.


I assume it's for the active medigation. Theres a rumor that the mediation from SoR still gets Applied if you miss. I doubt it's true, but I haven't looked into it.

I personally take Mastery Over Hit/Exp, but hit/Exp over Dodge/Parry.

Taking Hit/Exp over Mastery gets you capped faster, and I guess in theory may guarantee better medigation?

The response you received could have made a difference if you used quotes, without them, they didn't know if you were talking to Madil or the other commenter


mm you do have a point i will make sure to do that in future... but still getting so mad over such a small thing.

(hyperion btw) on wrong profile woops


I will tell Madil, it was an honest mistake, and the comment was not targeted towards him (I am in his guild)
This pretty much is about avoidance and AM versus effective health.

Avoidance and AM are for damage reduction and saving healers mana. Effective health is about the shear amount of damage you can take without dying. If your healers are having mana issues then you want to maximize your damage reduction. If you are getting burst down you want more EH (stamina/armor/resistance)

Avoidance and AM

Avoidance-Dodge/parry-more overall damage reduction. Damage intake curve is very spiky and you might not dodge/parry when you need too the most. Good if you suck at active mitigation or your healer is having SEVERE mana issues HEALING YOU. Generally good when first gearing up. The more avoidance you have the WEAKER hit/exp/mastery/haste become.

AM: active mitigation-Hit/exp/mastery/haste-more reliable damage reduction. More damage taken but your damage intake curve is smoother and less traumatic to healers. Further, with intelligent use of our active mitigation this can always be up when we need it the most and makes you easier to heal. This is good for hard hitting bosses like you see in raids. These stats makes avoidance weaker.

Effective health

Stamina- The best way to increase your effective health. The value of stamina depends upon the encounter and your healers mana. High magic encounters stamina as do boss who hit really really hard and nearly 2 shot you call for stamina.

Armor-Physical effective health. You take less damage from physical attacks. Always on and reliable. Makes healing you recieve stronger.

Resistance-Magical effective health. Works like armor but on magic. Supposedly its going away soon.

So how to gear?

When first gearing up for 5mans tends to favor avoidance as thats when your healers are most likely to have mana issues. But once you get to raids things start hitting ALOT HARDER (more so in 25mans than 10mans).

Therefore its generally best to favor EH over damage reduction once you are ready to raid. Since we cant stack armor and resistance is supposed to go bye bye soon (and was hard to find) this means stamina. Even in cata mastery stacking was actually about EH (block cap was a 43% increase in physical effective health).

After that you have to decide whats the better damage reduction. Since Avoidance is RNG its usually better to go Hit/Exp/mastery for reliable damage intake when the BIG hits come.

So stat priority will more than likely be like this:

Stamina>hit/exp/mastery>avoidance.

Of course there are multiple ways of going about this. You could chose to focus mastery>Hit>haste>exp for maximum damage reduction from those stats but you lose some of the reliability that we so want.

You could go Hit to 7.5%>expertise to 15%>mastery>haste for maximum reliability and HoPo Generation but you sacrifice alot of damage reduction.

OR you could do a hybrid of them both go:
Stamina>hit to 7.5%>exp to 7.5%>mastery>haste=expertise to 15%=avoidance.


Which is what they are recommending on maintankadin the top prot pally theorycrafting site.

TLDR:
Go avoidance if your healers are running dry otherwise go

Stamina>hit to 7.5%>exp to 7.5%>mastery>haste/avoidance/more expertise
Well I did say that in multiple replies after when they started calling me a noob, so no it wasn't directed at him, in any case the post I wrote didn't address any points from his post at all, it looked at what mudkip said.

I mean it was a thread of 3 posts doesn't take much to read it again and work out what Im talking about rather than jumping to conclusions about my skill or that I was calling him noob or something like that.

I mean dam it wasn't even attacking anyone at all. I just said it seems strange that you would only use mastery as a mitigation stat.
(i know thats not exactly what i said but its what i meant)
here comes Cely to save the day!

You keep everything in a Notepad to Copy and Paste dont you!
10/02/2012 11:43 PMPosted by Hyperîon
Why would you preference stats like hit/exp over mitigation? seems strange.


Their Holy power gen gives them mitigation value. Small value but still value. Same with haste.

Generally for damage reduction

Mastery>hit>haste>expertise. But hit/exp makes Hopo gen the most reliable.

I assume it's for the active medigation. Theres a rumor that the mediation from SoR still gets Applied if you miss. I doubt it's true, but I haven't looked into it.

I personally take Mastery Over Hit/Exp, but hit/Exp over Dodge/Parry.

Taking Hit/Exp over Mastery gets you capped faster, and I guess in theory may guarantee better medigation?


Rumor is true. Thats why maintankadin does NOT have a huge banner saying GET HIT AND EXPERTISE HARD CAPPED NOW!!!

Its all about the HoPo gen.

Prioritizing mastery is best for DR but takes away the main reason why we value mastery/hit/exp/haste over avoidance...reliability. Of course you can always go too far to one extreme or another. Thus why getting to 15% exp is usually not recommended.

here comes Cely to save the day!

You keep everything in a Notepad to Copy and Paste dont you!


Sadly no.

My replies usually take up from 30mins to 1 or 2 hours for that reason. I do have a MoP Plate tank gear guide and a MoP prot transition guide i have floating around that i OCCASIONALLY will copy from.

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