Suggestions to fix WW PvP

Monk
I spent hours leveling this character, and hours more gearing him up. I have to say I'm extremely disappointed in WW spec. It's extremely kiitable, stunnable, and all-around weak. I have thought of some useful suggestions rather than QQ.

I'm almost fully PvP geared and I've tested arenas and battlegrounds, so I feel I can make an educated judgement when I honestly say this: I'm no threat to anyone in PvP. I can be stun locked and killed before having a chance to do anything.

Here is what I suggest:

--Touch of Karma should require no chi to use, being our main emergency defense move.

--Many of our abilities, in fact, should cost no chi, such as Rising Sun Kick, Spinning Fire Blossom. Touch of Death, which is usable on players at 10% health with the PvP set bonus, is rarely used because of not having enough chi and I find myself holding back on using my more powerful moves so I don't waste chi. I wait till the 10% mark so I can finally use it, then realize that I could have just killed them quicker using my other moves. It should only cost 1 chi to use, if any.

--Jab is very weak. It needs to deal more damage, since so much of our time is spent doing it in order to have enough chi.

--Spinning Fire Blossom should not have to be aimed. The root effect needs to last longer.

--Touch of Karma should innately have a longer range.

--It's hard to catch up with someone running away from us, even with Flying Serpent Kick and roll. Disable needs to have a longer range.

--Spear Hand Strike takes way too much energy to use. It also ought to be usable from range.

--Fists of Fury should not split damage across targets. It could do with a damage boost.

--Transcendence should be usable while stunned and have no cast time.

--Crackling Jade Lightning ought to provide an instant knockback.

--Flying Serpent kick ought to make the monk immune to stuns or snares during the duration.

--Heals...I won't start on those for now because I don't really know what to suggest to improve them, even though they need it more than anything else. Healing spheres are rather clunky to use and take up a massive amount of our main resource without providing adequate healing. In fact, all the healing abilities for WW monks need to be rethought or provide massively more healing.

I know it sounds like a lot, but if you play a windwalker monk in PvP these very things I've suggested will likely stand out to you as glaring weaknesses, and I don't think it would take much effort on Blizzard's end to fix them.
I spent hours leveling this character, and hours more gearing him up

I'm almost fully PvP geared and I've tested arenas and battlegrounds, so I feel I can make an educated judgement


lol?
I fail to see what you think is funny about that. Would you prefer I make suggestions without having any pvp gear and testing no battlegrounds or arenas?
Hes a troll, ignore him.

What you could add is making Dematerialize baseline. You'd be surprised at how well it helps out Mistweavers. Warrior charge stuns you, you can roll away before he can do any damage to you. Plus eating half of a stun while immune is very very helpful.

Also it would help Brewmasters, because a stun = utter pain for something that relies on its avoidance more than its mitigation to live, aka a brewmaster.

over all DPS is just shameful.


Yes, I didn't even get to that in this thread, but the overall DPS isn't too impressive either unless perhaps in full tier 14 gear. But I don't think a player should have to have full T14 to be comparable in damage to other classes doing well before they have T14. As someone mentioned in another thread, it would make more sense to start out with a higher base DPS and see diminishing returns as you get more gear so that the overall feeling is that monk dps feels higher, but once you're T14 it's comparable to how it is now, although the journey there will not feel so hopeless. I find the game fun when your class can be enjoyed during the journey, not just the end result that comes with the best gear.
I am very disappointed in WW PvP as well. Not only do I feel like I don't output enough damage to really help my team - playing a WW monk just feels downright awkward due to really strange mechanics.

-Our damage is pretty sad compared to just about any other class in a damage spec.

-FoF needs a change in some way. It has WAY too many drawbacks: 3 chi, moderate cooldown, damage SPLIT between everyone it hits, and channeled so I can't move. How is it countered? Just walk in front of the guy I'm hitting. At that point, split between two people, it was barley worth the chi I used. Most important though, the ability is not fun to use. Here I am trying to bounce around as a MELEE class with leather, one that supposedly has good mobility but then to have any burst at all I have to STAND STILL and watch a cast bar. Would it really be so crazy if I could maintain the channel while moving? Even then, the monk would still have problems.

-I agree that transcendence needs to be instant. At .5 secs of a cast, it's almost comical. Once again, the flow of the class feels very off when using it. I'm moving around, trying to stay agile, but when I want to use our level 87 mobility spell, I have to stand still and cast. I've felt underwhelmed with it since the moment I got it.

There is much more, but I'm just going to have to believe that Blizzard will tune us more as the expansion progresses.

The state of the WW monk really affirms my suspicion that they probably intentionally undertuned the spec, at least for PvP. Does anyone remembers the state of DKs when they came out? Yeah, they did that with monks - just in the other direction.

They got my MoP money though, and successively lured a retired WoW player back in with the promise of a "fast paced" new class - so bravo Blizzard. You got me.
When dk came into this game, it almost destroyed arena! They were so op that you couldn't even play arena. I mean arena still suck atm with so many one shot macro going around> I think what blizz is trying to do is let you guys wait for a sec and fix it. It's better to buff a nerf new class than make it op than to nerf it. This is I think not to lose players. You guys are new kids on the block sooner or later you will be balanced. It better to disappoint one new class than to let it destroy everything and old players only willing to play their old classes run away.
adding all of these in would make us OP. Taking the chi cost off karma, reducing the cost of Spear hand strike changing tigersbrew, A bit of a burst buff and doing something to give us better ToT is really all we need.
anyone notice that the bonus for pvp gloves are supposed to let you roll our of roots? but i have not been able to roll out of any snares....
10/07/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Throttlatar
anyone notice that the bonus for pvp gloves are supposed to let you roll our of roots? but i have not been able to roll out of any snares....
It is only designed to let you roll out of slows not roots. A snare is a slow a root is a root, if you doubt it look at your disable tooltip.
10/07/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Throttlatar
anyone notice that the bonus for pvp gloves are supposed to let you roll our of roots? but i have not been able to roll out of any snares....


It is bugged, according to what I heard.
i would think a snare would be a root, or chains of ice, or something of that nature
10/07/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Meixia
anyone notice that the bonus for pvp gloves are supposed to let you roll our of roots? but i have not been able to roll out of any snares....


It is bugged, according to what I heard.


Not its not. You can roll out of slows, such as hamstring. You cannot roll out of roots, such as frost nova.
10/07/2012 10:47 AMPosted by Throttlatar
i would think a snare would be a root, or chains of ice, or something of that nature
the facts are more important then what you would think. Like i said read your disable tooltip.
10/06/2012 10:44 PMPosted by Noodlefist
Touch of Death, which is usable on players at 10% health with the PvP set bonus, is rarely used because of not having enough chi and I find myself holding back on using my more powerful moves so I don't waste chi.


correct me if im wrong isnt there a glyph that makes it chi free? but increased cool down?


It is bugged, according to what I heard.


Not its not. You can roll out of slows, such as hamstring. You cannot roll out of roots, such as frost nova.


I was talking about snares, not roots. Since it can now remove snares, I guess they hotfixed it. Or maybe it wasn't even bugged at all.

@Nubette: yep, the glyph of touch of death.
WW PvP is unplayable..

But this game has been in beta for months now and blizzard let it hit release like this, they obviously knew they were taking a large crap on anyone who was rolling a monk to pvp.

Just cancel your accounts.
I'm highly skeptical about WW monks being unplayable in PVP. Since I turned 90 yesterday, I'll have all the time to farm honor gear and test the spec for myself. Some of the complainers have like 45-48% pvp resilience which is pretty low imo.
The fundamental problem with the WW Monk in PvP are the Chi mechanics; face it, Blizzard: they're clunky, ill-conceived, and they just plain don't work. You don't have to be level 90 to see this.

In general, you spend so much time managing chi-gains/expenditures and rotating a bunch of lackluster abilities--which forces you to mash buttons like a moonfire-spamming noob Druid--everything just feels wrong. And then, on top of this, if you want to have any kind of survivability, you are forced to work through an entire playbook of additional instant-casts/CD abilities--as if you're supposed to have the time to get these things into your 'jab jab jab' button mashing routine. It's really just badly designed.

WW Monks need more passive abilities, better defensive options, and some kind of burst DPS. Half of their cool downs need to be stripped out and replaced with viable, passive substitutes.

How this class could have been designed this way--and then left this way--is bewildering. Even in PvE--which, on the surface, appears "OK"--just feels wrong. Here's the thing, Blizzard: If you're going to make a class require this much effort, then it better damn well deliver some powerful DPS output, or survivability, or .... well, something. As it is now, though, WW Monk is just a joke.

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