Windsong and Elemental Force Information

General Discussion
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10/15/2012 12:28 PMPosted by Delritha


The OP says 2 real PPM, so something seems to be off.


Originally it was 1 PPM and that is what I was thinking. In which case wouldn't each of the procs (Crit, haste, Mastery) have a separate 2 PPM chance? Like I said before, there have been many report of people having all three procs taking place at the same time.


As a resto druid it does seem like the 2 PPM is for each proc separately because they seem to proc a lot more than whats alluded to in this post. And yes all 3 can and have procced for me at once.
10/15/2012 11:03 AMPosted by Altimius
So . . . using the example numbers, if you have 22% haste and you're about to pull a boss, then the chance for your first hit to proc is 2 (ppm) * 1.22 (haste) * 10 (time since last chance, capped at 10) / 60 (sec per min) = 40.66%. Then, regardless of whether or not you actually proc, your next hit (1.4 seconds later) will have a 5.693% chance to proc. I'm gonna be really sad every time I don't get that initial 40% chance proc.

I think that is a typo. The system sounds based around time since last proc. Otherwise the value is too flat and might as well still be the old PPM. The goal of this system is to give a somewhat crappy chance to get multiple procs in a row but give an increasing chance to see a proc as time goes on to solidify the average PPM.

Edit:Guess I'm wrong.
10/15/2012 01:08 PMPosted by Elika
Not to sound snarky but what part of

Sorry, but your efforts didn't turn out well. That did sound snarky. The quote was more "types" of procs. There are a lot of weapon enchants that were not covered in RPPM.
if you want the math behind it:

(PPM * Haste * Time since last proc) / 60 = Percent chance to proc

If we keep Percent chance to proc at 100%, that means this is the longest in which a proc can take place between the two. So converted we have:

(PPM * Haste * Time since last proc) / 60 = 1 (100%)

Lets do some Algebra:

(PPM * Haste * Time since last proc) = 60
Time since last proc = 60 / (PPM * haste)

Haste is considered "1 + haste %"

So we know Windsong is a 2 PPM so lets use the 10% haste and the 22% haste:

Time since last proc = 60 / (2 * 1.10) = 27.27272727272727
Time since last proc = 60 / (2 * 1.22) = 24.59016393442623

so as you can see it's not that big of an issue compared to 10% and 22%. My math was off earlier due to complications at work and was distracted. but this should show that there isn't much difference.

PPM HASTE TSLP CTP PPM HASTE TSLP CTP
2 1.1 0.1 0.37% 2 1.22 0.1 0.41%
2 1.1 0.2 0.73% 2 1.22 0.2 0.81%
2 1.1 0.3 1.10% 2 1.22 0.3 1.22%
2 1.1 0.4 1.47% 2 1.22 0.4 1.63%
2 1.1 0.5 1.83% 2 1.22 0.5 2.03%
2 1.1 0.6 2.20% 2 1.22 0.6 2.44%
2 1.1 0.7 2.57% 2 1.22 0.7 2.85%
2 1.1 0.8 2.93% 2 1.22 0.8 3.25%
2 1.1 0.9 3.30% 2 1.22 0.9 3.66%
2 1.1 1 3.67% 2 1.22 1 4.07%
2 1.1 1.1 4.03% 2 1.22 1.1 4.47%
2 1.1 1.2 4.40% 2 1.22 1.2 4.88%
2 1.1 1.3 4.77% 2 1.22 1.3 5.29%
2 1.1 1.4 5.13% 2 1.22 1.4 5.69%
2 1.1 1.5 5.50% 2 1.22 1.5 6.10%
2 1.1 1.6 5.87% 2 1.22 1.6 6.51%
2 1.1 1.7 6.23% 2 1.22 1.7 6.91%
2 1.1 1.8 6.60% 2 1.22 1.8 7.32%
2 1.1 1.9 6.97% 2 1.22 1.9 7.73%
2 1.1 2 7.33% 2 1.22 2 8.13%
2 1.1 2.1 7.70% 2 1.22 2.1 8.54%
2 1.1 2.2 8.07% 2 1.22 2.2 8.95%
2 1.1 2.3 8.43% 2 1.22 2.3 9.35%
2 1.1 2.4 8.80% 2 1.22 2.4 9.76%
2 1.1 2.5 9.17% 2 1.22 2.5 10.17%
2 1.1 2.6 9.53% 2 1.22 2.6 10.57%
2 1.1 2.7 9.90% 2 1.22 2.7 10.98%
2 1.1 2.8 10.27% 2 1.22 2.8 11.39%
2 1.1 2.9 10.63% 2 1.22 2.9 11.79%
2 1.1 3 11.00% 2 1.22 3 12.20%
2 1.1 3.1 11.37% 2 1.22 3.1 12.61%
2 1.1 3.2 11.73% 2 1.22 3.2 13.01%
2 1.1 3.3 12.10% 2 1.22 3.3 13.42%
2 1.1 3.4 12.47% 2 1.22 3.4 13.83%
2 1.1 3.5 12.83% 2 1.22 3.5 14.23%
2 1.1 3.6 13.20% 2 1.22 3.6 14.64%
2 1.1 3.7 13.57% 2 1.22 3.7 15.05%
2 1.1 3.8 13.93% 2 1.22 3.8 15.45%
2 1.1 3.9 14.30% 2 1.22 3.9 15.86%
2 1.1 4 14.67% 2 1.22 4 16.27%
2 1.1 4.1 15.03% 2 1.22 4.1 16.67%
2 1.1 4.2 15.40% 2 1.22 4.2 17.08%
2 1.1 4.3 15.77% 2 1.22 4.3 17.49%
2 1.1 4.4 16.13% 2 1.22 4.4 17.89%
2 1.1 4.5 16.50% 2 1.22 4.5 18.30%
2 1.1 4.6 16.87% 2 1.22 4.6 18.71%
2 1.1 4.7 17.23% 2 1.22 4.7 19.11%
2 1.1 4.8 17.60% 2 1.22 4.8 19.52%
2 1.1 4.9 17.97% 2 1.22 4.9 19.93%
2 1.1 5 18.33% 2 1.22 5 20.33%
2 1.1 5.1 18.70% 2 1.22 5.1 20.74%
2 1.1 5.2 19.07% 2 1.22 5.2 21.15%
2 1.1 5.3 19.43% 2 1.22 5.3 21.55%
2 1.1 5.4 19.80% 2 1.22 5.4 21.96%
2 1.1 5.5 20.17% 2 1.22 5.5 22.37%
2 1.1 5.6 20.53% 2 1.22 5.6 22.77%
2 1.1 5.7 20.90% 2 1.22 5.7 23.18%
2 1.1 5.8 21.27% 2 1.22 5.8 23.59%
2 1.1 5.9 21.63% 2 1.22 5.9 23.99%
2 1.1 6 22.00% 2 1.22 6 24.40%
2 1.1 6.1 22.37% 2 1.22 6.1 24.81%
2 1.1 6.2 22.73% 2 1.22 6.2 25.21%
2 1.1 6.3 23.10% 2 1.22 6.3 25.62%
2 1.1 6.4 23.47% 2 1.22 6.4 26.03%
2 1.1 6.5 23.83% 2 1.22 6.5 26.43%
2 1.1 6.6 24.20% 2 1.22 6.6 26.84%
2 1.1 6.7 24.57% 2 1.22 6.7 27.25%
2 1.1 6.8 24.93% 2 1.22 6.8 27.65%
2 1.1 6.9 25.30% 2 1.22 6.9 28.06%
2 1.1 7 25.67% 2 1.22 7 28.47%
2 1.1 7.1 26.03% 2 1.22 7.1 28.87%
2 1.1 7.2 26.40% 2 1.22 7.2 29.28%
2 1.1 7.3 26.77% 2 1.22 7.3 29.69%
2 1.1 7.4 27.13% 2 1.22 7.4 30.09%
2 1.1 7.5 27.50% 2 1.22 7.5 30.50%
2 1.1 7.6 27.87% 2 1.22 7.6 30.91%
2 1.1 7.7 28.23% 2 1.22 7.7 31.31%
2 1.1 7.8 28.60% 2 1.22 7.8 31.72%
2 1.1 7.9 28.97% 2 1.22 7.9 32.13%
2 1.1 8 29.33% 2 1.22 8 32.53%
2 1.1 8.1 29.70% 2 1.22 8.1 32.94%
2 1.1 8.2 30.07% 2 1.22 8.2 33.35%
2 1.1 8.3 30.43% 2 1.22 8.3 33.75%
2 1.1 8.4 30.80% 2 1.22 8.4 34.16%
2 1.1 8.5 31.17% 2 1.22 8.5 34.57%
2 1.1 8.6 31.53% 2 1.22 8.6 34.97%
2 1.1 8.7 31.90% 2 1.22 8.7 35.38%
2 1.1 8.8 32.27% 2 1.22 8.8 35.79%
2 1.1 8.9 32.63% 2 1.22 8.9 36.19%
2 1.1 9 33.00% 2 1.22 9 36.60%
2 1.1 9.1 33.37% 2 1.22 9.1 37.01%
2 1.1 9.2 33.73% 2 1.22 9.2 37.41%
2 1.1 9.3 34.10% 2 1.22 9.3 37.82%
2 1.1 9.4 34.47% 2 1.22 9.4 38.23%
2 1.1 9.5 34.83% 2 1.22 9.5 38.63%
2 1.1 9.6 35.20% 2 1.22 9.6 39.04%
2 1.1 9.7 35.57% 2 1.22 9.7 39.45%
2 1.1 9.8 35.93% 2 1.22 9.8 39.85%
2 1.1 9.9 36.30% 2 1.22 9.9 40.26%
2 1.1 10 36.67% 2 1.22 10 40.67%

if you want the math behind it:

(PPM * Haste * Time since last proc) / 60 = Percent chance to proc

If we keep Percent chance to proc at 100%, that means this is the longest in which a proc can take place between the two. So converted we have:

(PPM * Haste * Time since last proc) / 60 = 1 (100%)

Lets do some Algebra:

(PPM * Haste * Time since last proc) = 60
Time since last proc = 60 / (PPM * haste)

Haste is considered "1 + haste %"

So we know Windsong is a 2 PPM so lets use the 10% haste and the 22% haste:

Time since last proc = 60 / (2 * 1.10) = 27.27272727272727
Time since last proc = 60 / (2 * 1.22) = 24.59016393442623

so as you can see it's not that big of an issue compared to 10% and 22%. My math was off earlier due to complications at work and was distracted. but this should show that there isn't much difference.


•The ‘time since the last chance to proc’ is capped at 10sec, so that your first attack of a fight isn’t a guaranteed proc


So the max Chance a 2RPPM could be is (2*Haste*10)/60. In the example, 2*1.22*10/60 = 40.666... Chance of proccing after 10 seconds.

the other thing that i wonder, on the 10RPPM, at zero haste and after 6 Seconds (10*1*6)/60= 100% chance to proc.

So 2PPM Has (@22% Haste) as Max of ~41% Chance?
    So after 10 seconds, it takes Around 3-4 swings, Ticks, casts, etc should proc it, baring any RNG God Hate. Since The buff is 12 Seconds, its close to 100% uptime?

10PPM (@0% Haste) has a Max of 167% chance?
    So This should be forced go off a Minimum every 6 Seconds at zero haste, making it a Minimum True 10PPM at zero haste, @22% Haste, every 4.92 Seconds, forcing a Minimum of 12 Procs per Min?
Windsong looks like a very attractive weapon enchant for both my Shadow Priest and my Rogue, but why are the enchants so terribly expensive in the auction house?
Here is 10PPM at no haste compared to 22% Haste

PPM HASTE TSLP CTP PPM HASTE TSLP CTP
10 1 0.1 1.67% 10 1.22 0.1 2.03%
10 1 0.2 3.33% 10 1.22 0.2 4.07%
10 1 0.3 5.00% 10 1.22 0.3 6.10%
10 1 0.4 6.67% 10 1.22 0.4 8.13%
10 1 0.5 8.33% 10 1.22 0.5 10.17%
10 1 0.6 10.00% 10 1.22 0.6 12.20%
10 1 0.7 11.67% 10 1.22 0.7 14.23%
10 1 0.8 13.33% 10 1.22 0.8 16.27%
10 1 0.9 15.00% 10 1.22 0.9 18.30%
10 1 1 16.67% 10 1.22 1 20.33%
10 1 1.1 18.33% 10 1.22 1.1 22.37%
10 1 1.2 20.00% 10 1.22 1.2 24.40%
10 1 1.3 21.67% 10 1.22 1.3 26.43%
10 1 1.4 23.33% 10 1.22 1.4 28.47%
10 1 1.5 25.00% 10 1.22 1.5 30.50%
10 1 1.6 26.67% 10 1.22 1.6 32.53%
10 1 1.7 28.33% 10 1.22 1.7 34.57%
10 1 1.8 30.00% 10 1.22 1.8 36.60%
10 1 1.9 31.67% 10 1.22 1.9 38.63%
10 1 2 33.33% 10 1.22 2 40.67%
10 1 2.1 35.00% 10 1.22 2.1 42.70%
10 1 2.2 36.67% 10 1.22 2.2 44.73%
10 1 2.3 38.33% 10 1.22 2.3 46.77%
10 1 2.4 40.00% 10 1.22 2.4 48.80%
10 1 2.5 41.67% 10 1.22 2.5 50.83%
10 1 2.6 43.33% 10 1.22 2.6 52.87%
10 1 2.7 45.00% 10 1.22 2.7 54.90%
10 1 2.8 46.67% 10 1.22 2.8 56.93%
10 1 2.9 48.33% 10 1.22 2.9 58.97%
10 1 3 50.00% 10 1.22 3 61.00%
10 1 3.1 51.67% 10 1.22 3.1 63.03%
10 1 3.2 53.33% 10 1.22 3.2 65.07%
10 1 3.3 55.00% 10 1.22 3.3 67.10%
10 1 3.4 56.67% 10 1.22 3.4 69.13%
10 1 3.5 58.33% 10 1.22 3.5 71.17%
10 1 3.6 60.00% 10 1.22 3.6 73.20%
10 1 3.7 61.67% 10 1.22 3.7 75.23%
10 1 3.8 63.33% 10 1.22 3.8 77.27%
10 1 3.9 65.00% 10 1.22 3.9 79.30%
10 1 4 66.67% 10 1.22 4 81.33%
10 1 4.1 68.33% 10 1.22 4.1 83.37%
10 1 4.2 70.00% 10 1.22 4.2 85.40%
10 1 4.3 71.67% 10 1.22 4.3 87.43%
10 1 4.4 73.33% 10 1.22 4.4 89.47%
10 1 4.5 75.00% 10 1.22 4.5 91.50%
10 1 4.6 76.67% 10 1.22 4.6 93.53%
10 1 4.7 78.33% 10 1.22 4.7 95.57%
10 1 4.8 80.00% 10 1.22 4.8 97.60%
10 1 4.9 81.67% 10 1.22 4.9 99.63%
10 1 5 83.33% 10 1.22 5 101.67%
10 1 5.1 85.00% 10 1.22 5.1 103.70%
10 1 5.2 86.67% 10 1.22 5.2 105.73%
10 1 5.3 88.33% 10 1.22 5.3 107.77%
10 1 5.4 90.00% 10 1.22 5.4 109.80%
10 1 5.5 91.67% 10 1.22 5.5 111.83%
10 1 5.6 93.33% 10 1.22 5.6 113.87%
10 1 5.7 95.00% 10 1.22 5.7 115.90%
10 1 5.8 96.67% 10 1.22 5.8 117.93%
10 1 5.9 98.33% 10 1.22 5.9 119.97%
10 1 6 100.00% 10 1.22 6 122.00%
10 1 6.1 101.67% 10 1.22 6.1 124.03%
10 1 6.2 103.33% 10 1.22 6.2 126.07%
10 1 6.3 105.00% 10 1.22 6.3 128.10%
10 1 6.4 106.67% 10 1.22 6.4 130.13%
10 1 6.5 108.33% 10 1.22 6.5 132.17%
10 1 6.6 110.00% 10 1.22 6.6 134.20%
10 1 6.7 111.67% 10 1.22 6.7 136.23%
10 1 6.8 113.33% 10 1.22 6.8 138.27%
10 1 6.9 115.00% 10 1.22 6.9 140.30%
10 1 7 116.67% 10 1.22 7 142.33%
10 1 7.1 118.33% 10 1.22 7.1 144.37%
10 1 7.2 120.00% 10 1.22 7.2 146.40%
10 1 7.3 121.67% 10 1.22 7.3 148.43%
10 1 7.4 123.33% 10 1.22 7.4 150.47%
10 1 7.5 125.00% 10 1.22 7.5 152.50%
10 1 7.6 126.67% 10 1.22 7.6 154.53%
10 1 7.7 128.33% 10 1.22 7.7 156.57%
10 1 7.8 130.00% 10 1.22 7.8 158.60%
10 1 7.9 131.67% 10 1.22 7.9 160.63%
10 1 8 133.33% 10 1.22 8 162.67%
10 1 8.1 135.00% 10 1.22 8.1 164.70%
10 1 8.2 136.67% 10 1.22 8.2 166.73%
10 1 8.3 138.33% 10 1.22 8.3 168.77%
10 1 8.4 140.00% 10 1.22 8.4 170.80%
10 1 8.5 141.67% 10 1.22 8.5 172.83%
10 1 8.6 143.33% 10 1.22 8.6 174.87%
10 1 8.7 145.00% 10 1.22 8.7 176.90%
10 1 8.8 146.67% 10 1.22 8.8 178.93%
10 1 8.9 148.33% 10 1.22 8.9 180.97%
10 1 9 150.00% 10 1.22 9 183.00%
10 1 9.1 151.67% 10 1.22 9.1 185.03%
10 1 9.2 153.33% 10 1.22 9.2 187.07%
10 1 9.3 155.00% 10 1.22 9.3 189.10%
10 1 9.4 156.67% 10 1.22 9.4 191.13%
10 1 9.5 158.33% 10 1.22 9.5 193.17%
10 1 9.6 160.00% 10 1.22 9.6 195.20%
10 1 9.7 161.67% 10 1.22 9.7 197.23%
10 1 9.8 163.33% 10 1.22 9.8 199.27%
10 1 9.9 165.00% 10 1.22 9.9 201.30%
10 1 10 166.67% 10 1.22 10 203.33%
thankyou! not just for the fix, but also for explaining it! much appreciated!
No changes to Colossus? It's currently pretty meh for tanks and most tanks are holding out for River's Song because Colossus just really isn't worth it and Windsong is basically better for most tanks.
Ok now that this is done and ranged is by far the biggest benefactor, please balance melee to be competitive with ranged in raid encounters.
Get the "time since last proc" nonsense out of your heads.

Time since last chance to proc is the variable that is checked.

Even if you don't get the proc on the first hit of a fight, its chance is reset.
10/15/2012 10:20 AMPosted by Garratha
But now can you explain why Black Magic still procs from just targeting enemies?

This isn't really related to this topic, but we'll look into it.

10/15/2012 10:30 AMPosted by Digerati
Is it intended that these enchants can be better than the Sha Crystal equivalents, ie: Jade Spirit?

It's intended that they're very viable enchants, but the top tier (Sha Crystal) enchants should usually win, on average. But there may be exceptions in certain situations.

10/15/2012 10:31 AMPosted by Sylvyr
How do you determine WHAT buff Windsong will Proc.?

10/15/2012 10:44 AMPosted by Thanatosia
Thanks for the info Daxx, but could you clarify a little more on Windsong - is it 2RPPM PER effect (haste proc, Crit Proc, Mastery Proc) - thus essentially 6RPPM among the 3 different buffs it can proc, or 2RPPM to get A proc at random?

Windsong is 2 RPPM total and the buff applied is totally random. Each time it procs, you randomly get 1 of 3 buffs.

10/15/2012 10:46 AMPosted by Purplestone
How does this apply to Guardians and Ferals?

The same way it applies to everyone else. Swing speed is not a factor in this proc mechanic.

As a dual wielding melee, I would frequently see double and sometimes even a triple proc of Windsong rolling at once, if only for a few brief seconds. And even outside of getting double procs, it was up quite often.

Does this new proc design for Windsong mean I'm going to see a decrease in procs, and thus a decrease in stacked up procs?

It should proc roughly as frequently as it did before for a rogue, and this change has no impact on its ability to stack. It is fully intended that Windsong’s 3 different buffs can stack with each other, but each is a result of a separate proc event.

My only question about the "Real PPM" is if the new system ONLY applies to...

This new proc mechanic is only used for Windsong and Elemental Force currently. Depending on how it works, we may use it for more procs going forward, but are unlikely to apply it to previous procs. We chose to apply it to Windsong and Elemental Force because their existing proc mechanic was problematic and significantly underperforming for a many of its intended users, so the change was almost universally a buff.

10/15/2012 10:56 AMPosted by Alicenchains
Windsong procs on my Recuperate tics and breaks me out of stealth. Quite troublesome in PVE and PVP situations.

This sounds like a bug. We'll investigate and fix if necessary. These sort of procs should not break stealth.

So what you are saying is that we are penalized if our class does not favor haste over mastery and crit? How is this in any way a good idea?

No, we're saying that one of haste's benefits is giving you more procs, which has always been the case, and we wanted to preserve that.

So after 10 seconds, it takes Around 3-4 swings, Ticks, casts, etc should proc it, baring any RNG God Hate. Since The buff is 12 Seconds, its close to 100% uptime?

I think you're misreading 'time since the last chance to proc' as 'time since the last proc'. That's a very important distinction.
By haste, do you guys mean haste rating, total haste effects, or attack speed?
10/15/2012 02:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
The same way it applies to everyone else. Swing speed is not a factor in this proc mechanic.


I am curious about this. I am assuming time since last chance to proc means since the last thing you did that could proc it. Assuming white hits only and no haste, a feral would see about a 3.3% chance on a white of a hit if no special abilities were used on a 2 RPPM enchant.

The question for comes up for dual wielders with it on both weapons. Does it count each weapon's enchant only for attacks made with that weapon or does having it on both weapons cause every attack to reset the counter? The reason why is that if it is counted as two different attack, each weapon has a 4.6% chance to proc, but with a very similar overall attack speed to a feral.

If both weapons with the enchant on it can reset the cooldown, does having Elemental on one and Windsong on the other then count as two separate enchants or one. If that one is separate, could it cause a larger chance for both to proc? Aka, is it then better to have two separate enchants?
So after 10 seconds, it takes Around 3-4 swings, Ticks, casts, etc should proc it, baring any RNG God Hate. Since The buff is 12 Seconds, its close to 100% uptime?


I think you're misreading 'time since the last chance to proc' as 'time since the last proc'. That's a very important distinction.


So Last chance to proc would be your Last Tick, Swing, Cast?

so myself as shadow, dont know the Length between dot ticks as im not at a wowable computer atm.

@ 22% Haste would that be (2 * 1.22 * .33) / 60 = 1.34% Chance Per Dot Tick at 1 Tick per dot per second (3 Dots, MF, SW:P, VT)?
@ 22% Haste Would that be (2 * 1.22 * 1) / 60 = 4.06% Chance per Dot tick at 1 Tick per 3 Seconds (3 Dots, MF, SW:P, VT)?
How does this interact with swapping weapons with different enchants? I'd hope TSLP is reset on weapon swap, so that weapon swapping is not promoted.

Equipping a weapon resets the time since the last chance to proc in this case, so a weapon swap does not gain you additional procs.

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