Thirst for Blood?

Warrior
I'm curious if I'm the only one feeling this way: thirst for blood is broken. (PVE ONLY)

Reasons:

With a priority system, and a gcd that is slower than most other classes a "realistic" window for using tfb is about 5 seconds.. considering movement, rng, and slows in some pve situations, that time is lessened even more... especially when you do proc a op and it DOESNT proc a tfb. I find that I have NEVER gotten to 5 stacks of tfb before it fell off or I had to use it or lose it at about 3.

Solutions:

There are a few ways I think that we can fix this issue which I assume more than me is having:
1) make the length of the tfb proc buff last longer so that we can build more stacks with our rotations (This seems most viable for balance because longer buff length barely, if at all, affects pvp, which is generally the main hindrance to changning a major mechanic)

2) make the stacks more powerful per stack, and reduce cap to 3. Have it at like 133% per stack or some figure close to that, and only stack it to 3 with the current buff length -- this would have the same ~550% buff, incremented at 300% more often; this would balance it much better for when you have to do the "oh !@#$ im out of time, let me pull it out!" moment and the stack is about to fall off after a odd movment mechanic. (this may have some adverse effects on the pvp side, such as adding unintended burst capability.)

Please post back some constructive thoughts, and hopefully get this thing considered for change.
The stack shouldn't be falling off as HS is off the GCD. If you are waiting to try and proc more stacks and waiting for the GCD of MS and then OP then yeah, you only have a few seconds cause you waited for more stacks. The problem isn't that we can't use it right away or even the GCD of MS and OP - the problem is TfB procs are RNG. TfB timer gets refreshed everytime you get an extra stack. If we could get TfB everytime we hit OP or even 50% of every time we OP then they would absolutely have to nerf TfB hugely.

I think the reason we have this is sort of a reward for warriors who are "earning" their rage and using abilities when they have built up the rage to use it. Go to a target dummy and, with enough rage, you can hit HS at anytime even between all your other ability swings.
I assume that there are certain abilities that we have that are meant to fit together to make dpsing feel "smooth". Most classes got a revamp in .0.4 and they feel streamlined.. For the most part warrior indeed follows this trend with the exclusion of tfb. I would definately accept a nerf to tfb power in exchange for more consistency. This would also help reduce warrior burst in pvp that makes bads cry.
Solution 1 barely effects PvE and drastically effects PvP...

The short duration is what makes it rare and godly powerful, as in PvP not only do you need to get lucky to get 5 stacks, when you are being CC'd they are VERY likely to fall off.

Duration, while nice for PvE, doesn't have that much of an effect. If you are getting that many TFB procs, your rage will start filling up very quick and you'll be forced to HS to dump rage, resetting your stacks anyway.
Like I said, I think it is RNG as a sort of reward for building up rage. Personaly, they can get rid of TfB completely and just even out our damage on our other abilities. That said, I'm still getting used to it and actually do feel some comfort with it. It's those rare times where I don't get any stacks for like 25 GCD rotations that kills me.

Also, something I've noticed is, it seems that if I hit OP right after a CS it never procs. I don't know if I'm missing something bleeding obvious but about 10 good hours of training dummy time and I have NEVER got TfB to proc right after a CS.
Don't get me wrong, I love proc classes and abilities; I do not, however, enjoy stopping the last 30 seconds of action every random 15-35 seconds and starting all over because something very inconsistent yells in a glow effect that I need to smash its keybind.
If that proc is somehow rolled into the current active rotation, its well-done, however; most classes have this aforementioned "smooth" rolling type of rotation -- that said, warrior has it 95% down, just this one little issue to be addressed.
Imo to balance for pvp they are gonna have to decrease the damage buff (maybe max stacks as well) while increasing the chance to proc. Or just get rid of it completely and roll the damage into the rest of our attacks.
Blizzard has very clearly stated that you are not supposed to wait for 5 stacks of TFB. With 2 stacks (which you get quite frequently) it surpasses slam damage by a lot. Therefore if u have 3> stacks and you have less than 5 sec remaining use your HS instead of slam the next time you can.

This priority system has also been confirmed in sims as being the optimal as well. Also considering just how hard HS hits with 5 stacks of TFB it would be completely broken if we could get 5 stacks consistently in PvP.
Blizzard has very clearly stated that you are not supposed to wait for 5 stacks of TFB. With 2 stacks (which you get quite frequently) it surpasses slam damage by a lot. Therefore if u have 3> stacks and you have less than 5 sec remaining use your HS instead of slam the next time you can.

This priority system has also been confirmed in sims as being the optimal as well. Also considering just how hard HS hits with 5 stacks of TFB it would be completely broken if we could get 5 stacks consistently in PvP.


May I get a source please?
thanks for the source :) Reading it now.
I think after further consideration, perhaps I should just try out fury rotation. I hear its more consistent?
Not really.

Thing to remember about arms is this:

You are not supposed to be top dps. Warrior (mainly arms) is also a top rate utility class. We complained about mobility for a reason and we got it so we should use it - this mobility is just as important in PVE as PVP (in some cases more). Yes, we are supposed to have high sustained damage but at the same time we assist with silences, bleeds and the ability to help the tank peel mobs off healers and casters (yes, we still provide OT roles even though we are specced dps).

That said, Arms is better on longer sustained fights and fury is better on short fights with their burst. Look at the team concept in a raid (10 man is hard but 25 will make sense). Instead of having two arms or two fury, have one of each. Fury will be excellent for trash and bursting on those moments when the boss is debuffed. Arms is great for the long haul being able to blow cd's twice during the boss fight. Meanwhile, both classes will be needed for silences and add phases.

If you are looking to top the charts, Warrior may not be the class you want. If your raid is complaining cause you are middle damage - point out to them that they need to learn your role. Warriors who are consistently at the top of the charts are usually either geared more than the rest of the raid or they aren't playing their class as it should be played. When I top the damage meters I always think to myself, "did I miss something important that fight?"
Thanks for the thought! I dont mind not being top dps, I just wondered if there was a way to possibly smooth one of the mechanics that feels a bit clunky. I understand "perhaps" having 5 stacks as a possibility, but (and maybe I'm the only one) that likes having a stacking buff max before blowing it. This makes a usage of a skill feel "complete" when blowing it, instead of.."oh shoot, I could have waited a second longer to make 100% more damage". To me, it ALWAYS feels like I should have (or should) wait for that next stack. It feels..unnatural? uncomfortable? .. Perhaps, again, I'm the only that feels this way?
@Mspsychokill

You're talking out of your !@#.
Trust me guys.
Currently, you'll almost never see a 5 stack, and that's how they want it.

We tried our darndest during beta to get this changed to something more fun.
It if changes at this point, expect it to be because of PVP.

Edit: I don't know if this is clear, but the only circumstance you should ever hit heroic strike are:
-at a 5 stack
-at 100 (80 without glyph) rage
-when you're not going to overpower again before the stack expires.

That's it, no other circumstances.
@Mspsychokill

You're talking out of your !@#.


Excuse me?
10/19/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Mspsychokill
Yes, we are supposed to have high sustained damage but at the same time we assist with silences,


All warriors have Pummel and can spec into the AOE interrupt.

10/19/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Mspsychokill
bleeds


All warriors have a form of the new Deep Wounds, and can spec into Bloodbath.

10/19/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Mspsychokill
and the ability to help the tank peel mobs off healers and casters


All warriors have taunt, charge and hamstring, and you wouldn't do this in an actual raid in most cases(Strengths on Will are an exception I can think of.)

10/19/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Mspsychokill
That said, Arms is better on longer sustained fights and fury is better on short fights with their burst.


No, fury just outdoes arms in later crit levels. Fury quickly outscales Arms, I'm afraid. Perhaps not in pre-raid dungeon gear, but they can't be far apart regardless.

10/19/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Mspsychokill
Fury will be excellent for trash and bursting on those moments when the boss is debuffed.


Both specs can burst. That's one of the attractions of being not only a warrior, but a melee DPS in general.

10/19/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Mspsychokill
If you are looking to top the charts, Warrior may not be the class you want


While they aren't topping sims, mechanics often work very well towards Warriors. Seeing them near the top should not be a surprise, especially fury. Stone Guard and Arms for example provides some sexy damage. Melee DPS in general are great on Gara'jal adds, not to mention any advantage you can take of voodoo dolls and berserker stance.

10/19/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Mspsychokill
Warriors who are consistently at the top of the charts are usually either geared more than the rest of the raid or they aren't playing their class as it should be played.


I'm not sure I understand the logic to this. How is topping the meters(in a real competitive raid, not LFR) not a sign you're DPSing well? What do you mean?

Arms has the advantage of cleave damage and possessing less RNG than Fury, but the RNG factor in Fury dwindles the more gear(crit) you obtain. Anything else is something all melee DPS can perform.

Perhaps the rudeness in my original post wasn't needed, but I'm just not sure how you're drawing these conclusions. This is all from a PvE standpoint, as I have almost non-existent knowledge of current PvP.
Yes, we are supposed to have high sustained damage but at the same time we assist with silences,


All warriors have Pummel and can spec into the AOE interrupt.

bleeds


All warriors have a form of the new Deep Wounds, and can spec into Bloodbath.

and the ability to help the tank peel mobs off healers and casters


All warriors have taunt, charge and hamstring, and you wouldn't do this in an actual raid in most cases(Strengths on Will are an exception I can think of.)

That said, Arms is better on longer sustained fights and fury is better on short fights with their burst.


No, fury just outdoes arms in later crit levels. Fury quickly outscales Arms, I'm afraid. Perhaps not in pre-raid dungeon gear, but they can't be far apart regardless.

Fury will be excellent for trash and bursting on those moments when the boss is debuffed.


Both specs can burst. That's one of the attractions of being not only a warrior, but a melee DPS in general.

If you are looking to top the charts, Warrior may not be the class you want


While they aren't topping sims, mechanics often work very well towards Warriors. Seeing them near the top should not be a surprise, especially fury. Stone Guard and Arms for example provides some sexy damage. Melee DPS in general are great on Gara'jal adds, not to mention any advantage you can take of voodoo dolls and berserker stance.

Warriors who are consistently at the top of the charts are usually either geared more than the rest of the raid or they aren't playing their class as it should be played.


I'm not sure I understand the logic to this. How is topping the meters(in a real competitive raid, not LFR) not a sign you're DPSing well? What do you mean?

Arms has the advantage of cleave damage and possessing less RNG than Fury, but the RNG factor in Fury dwindles the more gear(crit) you obtain. Anything else is something all melee DPS can perform.

Perhaps the rudeness in my original post wasn't needed, but I'm just not sure how you're drawing these conclusions. This is all from a PvE standpoint, as I have almost non-existent knowledge of current PvP.


So, because I have silence and stuns I'm not supposed to use them?
Because I have taunt (in any spec) I'm not supposed to pull a mob off a healer and bring it back to the tank?

So, I guess all my silences, stuns, etc are for pvp only??

So you quoted me my utility options after saying we are more of a utility class why?

Seriously, I won't ask you anymore questions. I have a group at my house screen shotting that for their next youtube vid on things people say /facepalm the story.

Anyway... I could care less if you're rude. And, if we are topping the charts, is it possible that warrior - oh nvm. just nvm, I'm on the floor laughing with the rest of the guys right now.

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