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Doing Jade Forest quests - by the 4th alt they are just BORING. 88-90 was torture on the 2nd alt...the ONLY way to get ahead quickly is quests...

At least flying makes them go faster...if you don't do this, make instances give 100% more xp per run to make them on par with questing.
Couple things to note here, just from my own experience.

1) I have 4 90's working on my 5th right now. Leveling in Pandaria is easy. It takes 2 days to sit down and knock out a 90 in this game right now from 85 and I think that is fair. For slow levelers, the most is a week if you're not just sitting around in trade chat complaining about how leveling is 'hard.'

2) Getting gear this expansion has been the most un-fun and painful experience I have ever had. Between everything in LFD being needed on by EVERYONE and the slow JP/Valor gains - I also find it ruthlessly boring to do all these dailies in order to unlock the ability to spend my currency. I am tolerable of it for one main, I get it and nothing is gonna change that - but for my alts? You're crazy. Even if I do them all side-by-side - you want me to do the same 5 sets of dailies every day? You're insane.

2) Professions - I would love to work on professions but they too are locked behind dailies, so unless I somwhow magically fit all my professions onto my main I am forced to do the SAME dailies every day on all my characters. This. Is. Super. Boring. And it burns players out fast.

3) At the end of the day, I actually find myself with NOTHING to do EXCEPT level other characters. I login, I do my dailies, and i'm done. I can't do anything else because EVERYTHING else is locked behind SEVERAL sets of rep gating. I'm all for making me work for it, but I honestly find that this 'big' beautiful world is locked behind grinding away for everything.

One of the core ideas quoted by Blizzard game designers is that they always want the player to feel like they are progressing. This is the best trait this game could follow in my opinion, but right now.... it just doesn't feel like it. I can sit down and do the math and know when I am going to his "X" status with these toons. This 'rep grind' is a mathematical chore now. And yes, any day that I am not able to login due to whatever reason is a day that I set myself back, further pushing that day when I can finally pick up the things I need.

I'm sure you guys will figure it out, or not, I mean I want to say "i'm gonna quit because this game is boring me now" but 7 years of playing is an investment that I am not willing to walk away from and you would not care less regardless. You've got a lot of players by the balls and you know it, just don't squeeze so hard, k?
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


You spent a lot of effort and time shaping Pandaria so that people could play through it. And they did, the first time around. I'm not sure how slogging through it a second, third, fourth, fifth, etc. time really fits that vision. That would be like going to a museum a second or third time to see your favorite exhibit and having the owners/guides tell you, before you can look at what you want to see, you have to walk through the ENTIRE museum and appreciate every piece they have on display.

Which is great, if you want to be that kind of patriarchal daddy figure, I suppose. To me, though, it just looks like you're trying to make it a ridiculous time sink.
Archaeologists have no way to get to the Seat of Knowledge before level 90. My warrior was leveling Archaeology throughout Pandaria as he levels, and I've had to pay people numerous times to fly me there for all of my turn-ins. No, the little dragon on the bottom level of the Shrine provides no options. You need quests to use it, archaeologists are excluded.


You can get there without flying. Lorewalker Cho lets you use his mount.
Its good to not have flying. Players want more convenience than is good for them. You would miss out on a lot (like we all did in Cata) if you were flying while leveling.


What did you miss out on? I dunno about you but I had to land to kill mobs and gather quest items. When I play I don't want to have to intentionally take a slower form of travel for a sense of immersion.
10/27/2012 05:10 PMPosted by Demonae
Actually, what I would really like, is to make xp from bg's worth about 10x as much, so I don't even have to go to Pandaria, I can just PvP to 90.


Yes please! let the PVers figure out questing and dungeons and raids and leave us pvpers to enjoy doing what we love!
5.2 or later? sure.

Now? No.
Get rid of flying mounts. They have spoiled people way too much.
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


I must say i have noticed that a lot of the alt friendly options that have been designed in the past only really work for one expansion. Is there any chance that we could see heirlooms, bonus reputation and other benefits for alts all built into a single new feature.

Something along of the lines of - you unlock +15% exp (up to 45%) per max level character, you gain minor benefits based off which classes you have at max level, heirloom gear* is built into the system and the gear scales based off your highest level character (got a 87? Heirlooms scale up to 85 (ilvl 330?). Got a 90? Heirlooms scale to lvl 90 (ilvl 430?))

* i said heirloom gear though it might be an interesting use of the ilvl scaling technology added for challenge modes if rather than giving players specific gear we simply turn scaling on/off for certain slots with the game scaling the item level of gear piece. ( Hell you could even place limits on how far up the gear is scaled to get rid of the problem with alts using the same weapon, trinkets, chest piece, shoulders and helms until level 80/85).
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this.
That's terrible.
I'll toss my thinking in to this mix as well:

10/27/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Malmström
No.
To expand on this a little bit:

No.
Flying around Azeroth, Outlands and Northrend negates much of the WoW experience. Didn't stop you guys from implementing flying then.
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


When i gained flying a week or so ago, the first thing i did was fly over the zones i had previously quested in. The size and beauty of pandaria can only be enjoyed from above.

I propose something different from the op.

BoA flying book. Normal price. Can only be purchased by a level 90 with Wisdom of the four winds AND the loremaster of pandaria achievement. Can grant Wisdom of the four winds to any alt that has Master flying and is level 85+.

Plenty of restrictions but its there for those that want it.
Please never ever design an expansion again meant to be explored through flying. No more giant voids with islands of post card scenery. Cataclysm turned the game into "Portals of Warcraft".

TBC and Wrath both increasingly made every zone into wide open spaces of relay points, no secluded mountain paths and hidden roads and passes were all but an afterthought.

Pandaria showed what it's like to wander around a fantasy world again, not look out the window of a plane.
You can get there without flying. Lorewalker Cho lets you use his mount.


If you're level 90.

You can't get there without flying unless you are level 90 - at which point, you have flying.

EDIT: I take that back. Not even my level 90 has access to Mishi. I've read that it requires some quests to take you there instead. I can say from experience that Pristine Artifacts are not that quest.
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.

See, I'd argue some people aren't looking for faster the second/third/fourth time through but something else to do entirely. For example, Deepholme wasn't my least favourite zone of Cat because it was poorly done, it was my least favourite zone of Cat because it was functionally mandatory and had to be done over and over again.

So, I'm not so much interested in flying in terms of speeding up the leveling process as I am in it's ability to better enable other modes of leveling. I say that because what flying from the start did for me in Cat was enable me to take my gatherers and move expediently around the map slow leveling while collecting mats I needed. Feel like doing some Arch? Get on my arch toon for a bit. Need some ore? I've another toon that's not max level yet, lets run around on him for now and do the gathering.

Slowly but surely they'd hit 85 doing this so for me it was another means of leveling without drudging through the same content over and over again but it's also something that you need flight to really feel productive doing. The rampant nodes on Pandaria might mitigate this somewhat for herbers and miners, but Arch nodes are so far apart as to make it a massive slog if you wanted to try and level 85-90 Panda side strictly on foot.

As such, I'd ask that you remember that a "solution" that simply sees us go through the same content faster is not necessarily what we're looking for when we're on alt 3+. Some of us would rather a break from that altogether. Flying and Gathering enables that, even if that wasn't the intent when you added gathering experience to the game.
No flying in Pandaria, plz.
I can see how it would be important to some. You can only level in one area so many times before you get tired of it and want to speed through. Still I think it would just be better if Blizz made the 85-90 leveling faster in some way, instead of giving us flying

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