Bonus roll issue.

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11/09/2012 03:10 PMPosted by Zarhym
The random loot system can only be so convenient before it becomes too efficient. We believe chance should dictate whether or not you get something at all and, if you do, whether or not you need still need that item. That philosophy -- specific to boss drops -- hasn't changed much over the years, so it stands to reason that even a bonus roll would follow the same structure.


I'm not normally one to complain but putting in a way to get an item of gear to drop when it's current after a certain (large) number of times killing a boss would actually be appreciated by a lot of people.

For example; take a gander at my Lootship kills in ICC. I was a healer then so of course I was after the healing trinket off that boss because it was my BiS. I never saw it drop once. The one time it dropped for my guild, I was on vacation (of course :P). Now granted a few of those kills are 10m, but I was doing 25m normal/heroic (I'd have been happy enough to use the normal version the trinket was so good for trees) Lootship every week for nearly the entire time ICC was out and I didn't even see it drop, much less lose it.

Now sure, one trinket in the grand scheme of things isn't going to make a huge difference. But since only one ever dropped for us we had that one healer with the trinket and I think one other who'd apped in halfway through. So that gave us 4-5 other healers who were missing a really good trinket. And we never did kill Heroic LK or Halion. :P

So something like in an actual raid if a certain item does not drop for like a couple months perhaps up its chance or something? Might get rid of some of those "I'm in a 10m and X boss has been dropping the same pieces of gear for the last X weeks and we can't gear some of our people" problems.

TLDR; ICC was out for a year and my 25m guild still had problems with never seeing loot. Would like random loot to be very slightly less random. <3
I would just be far less angry if using the coin on the sha didn't net me gold all 3-4 times i've used it, in addition to the gold i always get... It;s got a bloody gigantic loot table and the chance to get loot at all is so small. :(
11/09/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Zarhym
I do however wish that Sha (and Galleon?) random loot rolls would give you gear based on your spec instead of any spec from your class.

It's supposed to. We just double-checked with the developers on this, as we've seen conflicting information go out to players. If you get loot from world bosses that isn't for your spec, that's a bug and the item flagging needs to be fixed. Be sure to report specific items on the Bug Report forum.

Apologies for any confusion in this regard.


Ahhh! I even ticketed a GM and he said loot is based off of class not spec and I was stuck with my Boomkin pants. Well thanks sweets, I shall report it on the bug forum then! You clarified a lot of my concerns.

It's good to know that it wasn't intentional and I won't get stuck getting random spec loot while other classes get it easy.
11/09/2012 03:02 PMPosted by Zumi
Yea its random, I have gotten the same tier gloves off of Sha 3 times. Very much could use the legs but 3 gloves.
]

You do realize that clumping of results actually proves randomness right? Randomness has nothing to do with an even distribution of results. In fact, an even distribution of results would be inherently non random. You will expect to see some clumping of results with true randomness. Look at the old rainfall examples for proof of this.

Also, note the fact that you can roll heads on a coin 50 times in a row and the chances of rolling heads the next time are still the same....50%.
11/09/2012 03:14 PMPosted by Barru
So, for example, we could maybe add pets and mounts that would have a low chance of dropping exclusively on a bonus roll.


I don't think this would properly address the issue. A low chance at anything will still mean most of our loot bags will still contain nothing but 28g.

A better solution is a losing streak check that eventually rewards you with a piece of gear after a couple of weeks.


Then it wouldn't be random, rofl.
Sha of Anger- Huge loot table with tier and pvp gear, so of course I use a token here. 3 weeks 3 sets of guardian tier pants, off bonus rolls. Sharded 2 pairs.


I've killed him every week since release and I've yet to get something useful.

So while you may be getting double-ups, at least you're getting something at all.
Improving the tokens would have the side effect of making dailies even more mandatory than they already are...
11/09/2012 03:10 PMPosted by Zarhym
So, for example, we could maybe add pets and mounts that would have a low chance of dropping exclusively on a bonus roll.


Yes please. Or extra VP. Or flasks. Anything but gold every time, really.
Just going to add that I too have received 3 tier gloves and nothing else, the first pair were regularly rolled. The 2nd and 3rd were received from bonus rolls. I have not been using the bonus rolls every week. In fact now that I'm thinking about it, I think I have only used 3 bonus rolls on Sha total. Coincidence? Probably.

I doubt chiming in was worth anything as I imagine Blizz could query their systems to find out if the results are indeed off sided when using bonus rolls. Somebody has to get the short end of the stick. Another guy in guild has had amazing luck with his bonus rolls.
But with that said, we're exploring ways to make the bonus roll feel like more of a random bonus, without just making it extremely efficient for gaining character power. We understand how it feels to spend the charms and rarely see anything other than gold or items you don't need. So, for example, we could maybe add pets and mounts that would have a low chance of dropping exclusively on a bonus roll.


Most people would see that as making it worse, if those items lower the already small chance of getting a useful piece of gear over the 28 fitty.


It is easy to implement the bonus items without hurting the chances of the gear you want. Here's some math:

Let's say 20% chance to get gear for your spec and 80% chance of gold, assuming you need all the pieces that could possibly drop for you. Any bonus items added, which I personally hope they reuse the entire Satchel drop table, reduces the 80% chance of gold, so you end up with 20% gear, 20% bonus stuff, and 60% gold.

Remember, the numbers here are hypothetical, but the point I'm trying to make is that any new bonus items only reduce the chance of gold, not gear. This means that you have a chance to get some bonus items where you would've gotten just gold before.


I've been playing since Nov 05. The new bonus roll loot system was suppose to impove the old roll system.

I'm not sure "improve the old roll system" is the right way to phrase it, at least in the context that you have any expectation that the bonus roll should be much more likely to give you what you want, if not at least know not to give you what you already have.

Using a bonus roll is effectively no different than if you were to be able to loot that boss twice in one week. Each bonus roll provides exactly the same chances of getting anything off of the exact same loot tables as a normal loot roll -- nothing more, nothing less.

So it's an improvement in that you can earn an extra shot at a boss's loot table in one week. But it's not intended to be a system that ensures you never get what you don't need. The random loot system can only be so convenient before it becomes too efficient. We believe chance should dictate whether or not you get something at all and, if you do, whether or not you need still need that item. That philosophy -- specific to boss drops -- hasn't changed much over the years, so it stands to reason that even a bonus roll would follow the same structure.

But with that said, we're exploring ways to make the bonus roll feel like more of a random bonus, without just making it extremely efficient for gaining character power. We understand how it feels to spend the charms and rarely see anything other than gold or items you don't need. So, for example, we could maybe add pets and mounts that would have a low chance of dropping exclusively on a bonus roll.


maybe put some extra VP too? or if you get the gold bag, theres some extra vp in it....
11/09/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
But with that said, we're exploring ways to make the bonus roll feel like more of a random bonus, without just making it extremely efficient for gaining character power. We understand how it feels to spend the charms and rarely see anything other than gold or items you don't need. So, for example, we could maybe add pets and mounts that would have a low chance of dropping exclusively on a bonus roll.


Most people would see that as making it worse, if those items lower the already small chance of getting a useful piece of gear over the 28 fitty.

I don't see why we'd implement this in such a way that your chances of getting gear would be reduced in relation to your chances of getting vanity items, flasks, etc.
11/09/2012 03:26 PMPosted by Sardukaar
Do your research. If you've won a piece of LFR gear off a boss for your spec and that's the only piece the boss drops, don't use your bonus, thereby minimizing duplicates. Bank it for that trinket that refuses to drop later on in the expansion. Be happy you have two chances at it a week.


i did this alot but there are bosses that drop 3-4 pieces of loot you can use.
You just can't make some people happy unless they get what they want every single time. God, I'd hate to be these children's parents.


Most people would see that as making it worse, if those items lower the already small chance of getting a useful piece of gear over the 28 fitty.


It is easy to implement the bonus items without hurting the chances of the gear you want. Here's some math:

Let's say 20% chance to get gear for your spec and 80% chance of gold, assuming you need all the pieces that could possibly drop for you. Any bonus items added, which I personally hope they reuse the entire Satchel drop table, reduces the 80% chance of gold, so you end up with 20% gear, 20% bonus stuff, and 60% gold.

Remember, the numbers here are hypothetical, but the point I'm trying to make is that any new bonus items only reduce the chance of gold, not gear. This means that you have a chance to get some bonus items where you would've gotten just gold before.
.

Oh I know, but people will see them adding these other items as lowering their chance to get actual gear, more than it already does.

Id use bonus rolls to get sha crystals or pets or mounts.

11/09/2012 03:40 PMPosted by Zarhym
I don't see why we'd implement this in such a way that your chances of getting gear would be reduced in relation to your chances of getting vanity items, flasks, etc.


Again, I agree, but people dont see the math like that.

"MOre items that it can choose from!? It lowers my chances for gear! Rabble rabble"
11/09/2012 03:40 PMPosted by Zarhym


Most people would see that as making it worse, if those items lower the already small chance of getting a useful piece of gear over the 28 fitty.

I don't see why we'd implement this in such a way that your chances of getting gear would be reduced in relation to your chances of getting vanity items, flasks, etc.


Just another thought on the bonus roll. it's a kick in the teeth to win an item you've already got, that's worth even less to vendor than if you got gold.
11/09/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Paladinchaz
Most people would see that as making it worse, if those items lower the already small chance of getting a useful piece of gear over the 28 fitty.


Not necessarily. They could make it so you have a chance to get the mount AND a gear drop, or just the mount, or just the gear. There's nothing saying adding things to the loot table has to reduce the chance of anything else to drop.
11/09/2012 03:49 PMPosted by Firestyle
You just can't make some people happy unless they get what they want every single time. God, I'd hate to be these children's parents.


Why must you bring negativity to this brain storm of suggestions?
Just randomizing the amount of gold received would improve things.

28.5 has become an ongoing joke in our guild.
11/09/2012 03:19 PMPosted by Lanarus
Be happy your getting items, seriously...


I'm not getting items, though.
I haven't gotten a single item in the 20 raid bosses I've killed since release.
<5% drop rate k

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