Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

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11/12/2012 08:31 PMPosted by Zarhym
I personally agree about needing to strike a better balance, happy medium, or some form of compromise (beyond the Revered bonus in 5.1).

Is there any chance 5.1 will get more than the revered bonus thing? Even something really minor like increasing the drop rate of Guo-Lai Cache Keys and the Klaxxi thing would go a long ways to improving things. Please don't let developers chase the perfect solution and ignore interim band-aids to help stop the bleeding.
It is sad to see so many posts on here about a lot of people not having fun anymore.

Its also sad to see friends quit due to world of dailiescraft.

I have about 7 more friends on my server that are all considering leaving because of this and that will be sad.

Blizzard, this post is from their mouths and mine and I shall repeat it again.

All playstyles should be able to get rep at an EQUAL rate in different ways, not just the dailies lovers.

Very valid argument that I agree wholeheartedly.
11/12/2012 07:51 PMPosted by Vaedrin
The reason I hate the MoP model is because these dailies force me to do them in order to have a significantly better raiding experience.

How exactly does the rep gear improve your raiding experience?

If you are only pugging, then I can understand this to mean that you need the ilvl to get into a pug group. Yet this is only entry into the pug. The normal mode raids are balanced around having 463 gear, not 476/489 gear.

Though I fear that this quote is actually saying that the more gear I have the less I have to work for more gear in raids.

Yes dailies blow flaming donkey spheres, but I argue that they give a break in the monotony that is dungeon grinding.

Are dailies required to kill bosses in the MSV? Absolutely not. If you are in an organized group that can work together as a team. There's only 2 reasons why you wouldn't be in an organized group. 1) you don't want to be for whatever reason. Be it that you're too busy or don't have a steady schedule. If you want to be in a guild run, you can find a way. 2) You're not skilled enough to be in a group that doesn't have to out gear the place before defeating it.

Do pugs require a GS that you can only get via spending lots of money on epic crafted BOE's or rep? Sure, but ask yourself why that is?
Is it so the RL (and maybe their friend) can get carried? Possibly when the RL has a lower GS that what he's asking for.
Maybe he's wanting that GS because it shows that you have been willing to put in the work for your gear. For the exact same reason that pug raid leads want your gear gemmed and enchanted.

Cataclysm's Gear Supermarket system killed off millions of subscribers. So I doubt we'll ever see its like again.

And good riddance.

Incorrect. What was bad in Cata was lack of end game. People left when all we had was 9 months of DS. I don't remember anyone saying "ERMAHGERD I AM GETTING TOO MUCH GEAR TOO FAST TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME".

really. explain the nearly 1.2-1.5 million people who left before DS even went live.
I uh. I have one level 90. I ain't doing dailes. I have no idea where to spend my 3k justice. WTF IS GOING ON!!? Help me blizzard.
11/11/2012 04:28 PMPosted by Mim
The new loot system for LFR, Sha, etc is completely unbearable, constantly seeing 28g pop up across all my toons gives me ZERO incentive to continue grinding out the casual content I am used to.

Something does seem to be lost by not seeing the gear drop each time. Despite the frustrations that attend losing a roll, the chance at winning seems less abstract somehow when an item is actually revealed for rolling.

I mean, somehow I don't think slot machines would be so popular in Vegas if they were relegated to private, individual-sized rooms. I suspect that the sound and excitement of someone winning are part of the reinforcement that keeps people pulling levers.

You know...this is true. I would love to see this come back as a feature in the LFR. See what loot actually drops and who it goes to. Even in the form of a results page.
How about dailies inside dungeons?
First off I think Monk the OP is far off. By saying if Blizz doesn't change things 'many more will follow suit' is a lie. People were leaving pre-MoP because there was nothing to do. So I highly doubt they'll leave because there's too much to do. I also gotta say i find it funny the OP says how casual he is and doesn't want or have time to do all these dailies yet hes had time to level 9 characters up to 90 already. that in my mind is not casual. My true casual friends just hit 90 on their only character last week.

And Zarhym I want you to know there's also some of us like myself that are 100% happy with how MoP is. I love that I feel like I've always got something to do. I was just telling a friend it's not like it used to be anymore where you did Heroics or BGs until you got your respective gear, then you'd sit in town and queue for arenas or wait for raids depending on what you did. Now you've got tons of things to do outside of town and dailies are a huge part of that. I'm loving it personally, and I'm also someone thats played the game for almost 8 years like the OP. I came to WoW Nov 23rd 2004 and I've quit off and on over the years sure. I actually quit for the longest period ever shortly after Cataclysm came out. I just got sick of having nothing to do. I came back for MoP and am very satisfied with what I'm seeing so far.

So while there may not be many positive posts about this Zarhym I hope you guys do know some people enjoy the game and how it is today. And also love the way dailies work. I worry because of people like the OP the game will go back to being stale and boring like it had got to in Cata.

11/12/2012 08:36 PMPosted by Zarhym
There's a reason that it's 8:45 p.m. here, and I'm still at work and STARVING. ;p

Send one of your underlings for some food? That's totally what I would do.
11/12/2012 08:31 PMPosted by Çâthülü
That explains the constant complaints on the forums going towards this issue. If Blizzard doesn't change this setup very soon, in fact immediately, same thing will happen with Cataclysm. I remember back in BC and Vanilla when Blizz listened to the majority of the community and that is why during that time we had the largest sub numbers in all of MMO's. We still do today, yet they are constantly dropping and player interest in this game is also dropping due to this topic. Nobody complained in wotlk when we had tabards did they? I don't recall.

Again, only a small fraction of the player base even looks at the forums. Saying "blizz better do something soon or people will leave" based on complaints from a fraction of the players is a poor way to go about it. IF it really were the case that the majority wanted something changed or they'd not have interest in playing, then yes I'd think a company would take that seriously right away. However, just because a handful of people (comparatively speaking) say they hate it and demand change or they'll leave, does not mean the majority of the players hate it as well.

People complained all the time in Wotlk. In some cases, the complaints were that it was too easy.

There will always be people who are unhappy about something in game and come here to voice their opinions on it (or demand change with threats of leaving.)
11/12/2012 08:31 PMPosted by Zarhym
It's difficult to tackle the "fun" factor compared to previous daily hubs. That's very subjective and I, in fact, disagree with you on a personal level. :o

The hardest dailies are definitely the Shado pan ones where you have to kill the elite bugs. I don't die often because of my awesome voidwalker tank, but I do die. Those bugs hit HARD. I shudder to imagine what it's going to be like on my SP that I just hit 90 on today. I personally like dailies you can tell by my achievements. Now that I'm revered with most factions I skip dailies a lot I am just too tired to care about getting exalted for the mounts.
It would be nice if you changed the daily rep bonus before 5.1 hit, wishful thinking I know.

I’m afraid I have to disagree with this. Currently if you do dailies you’re gaining rep, gaining access to recipes, gaining valour points, gaining charms for more loot, unlocking vendor access to more gear and the ability to use your valour points plus accessing mounts.

How is this not the same sort of double dipping as Rep Tabards?
Where is the incentive to vary the content you do?

I think the reverse is true for a lot of players. The multi-dipping nature of dailies can pull players from doing other content that they may enjoy into the feeling that there are so many parallel rewards from dailies that they just have to do them.

Where available time is a constant, if I spend more time doing dailies, I’m spending less time in any other content.

I’d welcome incentives to vary the content. The current system places more emphasis on rep points through an increased breadth of rewards behind rep. Increasing the methods by which rep points could be obtained would both validate and enable different play styles and wider breadth of content consumption.

If running dungeons or BGs or perhaps even turning in gathered materials could also yield rep, the game’s wide open with multiple means to an end. When rep is only available from doing dailies, it’s just a closed shop.

Excellent point.

Very good post. I was wondering the same as well.

Instead of double dipping in dungeons, we are double dipping in dailies LOL. Just goes to show that blizzard wants us to zombie grind until our eyes bleed.
11/12/2012 08:36 PMPosted by Zarhym
Even though we are posting long posts I hope blizzard reads this, and we aren't just wasting our time.

There's a reason that it's 8:45 p.m. here, and I'm still at work and STARVING. ;p

Well, Zarhym said it himself - Blizzard has bad working conditions. Doesn't supply their workers with food.

Confirmed. :P
I'm not really here to rant about RNG. Yeah, I don't like some of it's implementation, or I wouldn't be involved in this conversation at all.
I enjoy RNG when it's implemented well. The thrill of getting new gear, weighed against the disappointment of not getting new gear, some weeks. It's an aspect of the game I enjoy, and tied with my enjoyment of group play, it normally works pretty well. But when I start to actually fall behind all the friends I play with, and get locked out of new content (ilvl 470?) with no options of catching up other then more of the crossing fingers....well. Then is starts to wear on my fun factor, and I begin to question why I'm paying $15/month on this, instead of something like the lotto.

It's at that point I then take to the forums, and follow the blue for threads getting read, and offer thoughts on the situation based on how blizzard has attempted to change the game and keep it "interesting". Throw in some peppered commentary about how it's not a pain in the butt to gear multiple specs or alts in any kind of reasonable amount of time commitment for someone like me who plays 5-10 hours a week, and boom. Recipe for Feedback.
11/12/2012 08:34 PMPosted by Instìnctz
if thats the case why did 2 million people quit in cataclysm?

Because it had less endgame content than any expansion in history.

Really, how do people keep overlooking that?

11/12/2012 08:36 PMPosted by Zarhym
There's a reason that it's 8:45 p.m. here, and I'm still at work and STARVING. ;p

We love you, Zar.
In a rather very rude way, but completely true post, I'm going to quote something someone else said in ANOTHER farewell thread that might knock sense into people:

These players drives themselves to the point of quiting, their own fault.

They don't need exalted vanity items

They don't need VP gear when ilvl486 raids are designed for ilvl463

They don't need to do all dailies everyday for all factions

They don't do research, and just did whatever their misguided guild lead or raid lead told them to do.

They burned themselves out, then come here and whined on the forums hopping Blizzard can lower the bar to their standards.

Let's make another list;

They don't want to buy crafted epics

They don't want to PvP

Of course, They don't want to do any dailies

They want to have "hardcore" progression, but don't want to put in what hardcores do to be hardcores.

They want a rep tabard and grind rep in dungeons, over and over and over and over, to rush to exalted.

For what?

To find they have NO VP to buy the said items, and they will be back, asking for VP handouts.

To buy those vanity mounts/items and sit in cities?

To get those enchants/receipes only to find every other alts have them and these receipes no longer worth anything more than their mats? BTW, have you look at the mats for those enchants? Maybe they will come and whine about enchant mats too.

Pathetic, please stay gone.
11/12/2012 08:31 PMPosted by Durlockozk
I have never exactly been the biggest fan of Zarhym, LFRs, or what seem to be excessive daily quests.


I love being lumped in with game content. I could've used better implementation, that's for sure. :p

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