Cross realm disaster - a letter to Blizzard

General Discussion
Over the past couple of months, I have read all the complaints and the very few positive posts about cross realms. The positive appear to be from PVP servers, but if you count the THOUSANDS of posts, you will note an overwhelming negative response to the CRZ, with very little response from Blizzard; other than they are aware, they have plans in progress and even suggesting that players camp a spot at server reset.

I do not understand the lack of response by Blizzard to their customers. I have even read some great ideas on the forums from other customers; like taking a poll, having an opt out ability, or even keeping CRZ to PVP and low population servers.

I have read the complaints from the customers of Blizzard and seen that they have taken an active roll in voicing their thoughts and desires.

Customers are not happy that they have people 'stealing their nodes' while they are killing a mob(though this has gone on long before CRZ, but is now this occurs 100 times more often); people are frustrated that the time they have available to play this game is spent waiting on a respawn to complete a quest. There are complaints of people falling off mounts when crossing realms, of time issues, stealing of skins (leatherworkers I would assume), of auction house price fluctuations, of trolling, camping rare spawn pets, the list goes on and on and on. Yet, to date, nothing seems to have improved or changed.

We had an abnormally long maintenance today. I logged on today the moment the servers actually went back 'live', as I happened to have some free time today. There were hundreds, if not thousands of players circling over the area of a rare spawn pet in Icecrown. It looked like the movie 'The Birds' to see all the flying mounts.

Apparently other customers are reading these posts and have taken the advice of the Blizzard staff to 'camp' these areas. Yet, it saddens me to think of all the people who HAVE to camp areas to get that small chance of completing a set of pets, quests, or any other project they might be working on.

I think Blizzard forgot that not everyone has 120 hours per week to play their game, yet send their money to them monthly all the same to 'play a game'. The cross realm is taking away more than it is giving. It is taking away the fun for a great many of it's customers. It is frustrating people to the point of thousands of posts being written about it.

I have read many posts on this website over the years; and know that most of those posts are people whining and complaining about their personal dis-satisfactions. However, I have read enough to know that it has been a very long time since I have seen such an uprise from a customer database. I have read the names of posters and noted that these are not just the same 100 people complaining in 500 separate posts.

This is just a game to me. A place where I can unwind after work. I have enjoyed the many facets of the game, and have been pleased with it enough to remain a customer for all these years.

I suggest the staff of Blizzard do as I did, and actually read the posts; and start responding to their customer complaints. I wish I had thought to make a video for 'youtube' of what I saw when I logged on today. It was actually quite an impressive thing to see.

I would suggest to Blizzard that they listen to their customers, and perhaps the idea of a poll, might actually be a good idea. If this many people are talking, someone should listen.
It has nothing to do with CRZ specifically, but the reason they frown on Poll/Voting/Petition threads is because even a thousand posters is not representative of millions. Polls/Votes here are not scientific in any sense and are incredibly self-selecting. They only do their own Polls are mere jokes, not really to elicit much feedback.
Well I do think it is high time they reimburse us for all the repairs! And I still want the Salty title and I still want to know just what "isn't ready yet" every time one of my toons crosses into a different area.
11/06/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Snowfox
It has nothing to do with CRZ specifically, but the reason they frown on Poll/Voting/Petition threads is because even a thousand posters is not representative of millions.


Hmmm....I hope you are wrong about this, since that logic pretty much invalidates any value to the existence of the forum itself. Other then venting, of course.
11/06/2012 01:39 PMPosted by Crushtia
Hmmm....I hope you are wrong about this, since that logic pretty much invalidates any value to the existence of the forum itself. Other then venting, of course.


Not at all. What it does is moves the debate from majority-consensus to the topics themselves. The devs weigh the various arguments/points made in threads without even needing to consider who is or isn't a majority. The points stand on their own merits, not based on how many people support them.

Which, frankly, is really what we want in the end. The alternative is the majority of people all voting themselves tons of free stuff and a charmed life with gear on a platter.
11/06/2012 01:28 PMPosted by Kiir
The positive appear to be from PVP servers, but if you count the THOUSANDS of posts, you will note an overwhelming negative response to the CRZ, with very little response from Blizzard; other than they are aware, they have plans in progress and even suggesting that players camp a spot at server reset.


if you wante peronal acknowledgment from Blizzrad to each and every thread/post, you're gonna have to sit down and wait for ever. There have been several blogs where Blizzard states that they are working to iron out the quircks, if that is not acknowledging the player base, then I do not know what is.

FYI, the forums do not even represent 1% of the game's population, and the vocal minority is exactly that: a minority.
I really haven't had any bad experiences with questing, or gathering mats, and it does feel more lively with other questers there in low pop zones. But camping rares is getting a bit out of hand, especially the battle pets. It doesn't matter what time of the day or whether its 3,4,5 in the morning the Northrend hunter pets are getting camped.

There are certain battle pets that as people have more time to try out pet battles the more people are trying to hunt for them. These "server reset pets", I've never seen anything like it with how many people are trying to camp them lately.
11/06/2012 01:30 PMPosted by Snowfox
It has nothing to do with CRZ specifically, but the reason they frown on Poll/Voting/Petition threads is because even a thousand posters is not representative of millions. Polls/Votes here are not scientific in any sense and are incredibly self-selecting. They only do their own Polls are mere jokes, not really to elicit much feedback.

What else do you suggest? Blizzard made the forums and provided it to their subscribers so they could get feedback. They cannot make their millions of customers come to the forums and voice their concerns. Those of us that care enough about the game, do come here to voice our concerns but yet we are met with a "let them eat cake" mentality. While these forums may not represent the millions of players, it is the only means for those of us that care enough, to communicate our discontent, short of canceling our account. And when you say millions, keep in mind that is all over the world. We are not even talking about all the discontent with CRZs on the european servers or the asian servers or the latin servers. OP is just talking about US servers. If he started counting on all the forums around the world, his numbers would probably go WAY higher. All of us sat here and bought into the MoP expansion but all we really got were a few new zones to do dailies in and on top of that we have to share the zones with others that contribute nothing to the economy on your home server.

And I think OP also forgot to mention the fishing tournements that got canceled because of the CRZs. It has cause way more problems than it has fixed. I am amazed Blizzard will not admit this. Must have been the CEOs idea and no one wants to tell him he is a moron.
11/06/2012 01:42 PMPosted by Snowfox
Hmmm....I hope you are wrong about this, since that logic pretty much invalidates any value to the existence of the forum itself. Other then venting, of course.


Not at all. What it does is moves the debate from majority-consensus to the topics themselves. The devs weigh the various arguments/points made in threads without even needing to consider who is or isn't a majority. The points stand on their own merits, not based on how many people support them.

Which, frankly, is really what we want in the end. The alternative is the majority of people all voting themselves tons of free stuff and a charmed life with gear on a platter.


The logic that a poll is functionally different from extended posting if flawed. It is still a representation of a subset of the player base. But I understand your point.

However, I think it is a shame that Blizz doesn't actually use the poll function for anything meaningful. For one thing, I think there is a lot of value of looking at percentages, particularly for the larger or more polar issues in the game. It might help get rid of some of the dead horse issues and redundancy in the forums.

While you mention "various arguments", the percentage of those arguments/comments that are actually of original value, are not restating the obvious or oft-stated, or don't just devolve into flame/troll/entertainment only threads are few and far between.

I am not saying "get rid of comments", just that the polling, if actually used correctly, would be just as valid, -or not-, as the forum itself. And it seems to me that player inclination could be much easier gauged on some topics with simple and straight forward polls, then trying to read through everything.

This topic is about CRZ and the OP mentioned using a poll. If Blizz actually did that, there would be no reason for rehashing all of the for/against arguments in yet another thread. And the results may, one way or the other, may finally put the topic to rest.
Here's the thing you're missing: In a debate, we can argue two seperate points. Example:

You: "I don't like CRZ. It makes farming stuff harder, and PVP realms involve too much PVP."
Me: "But this is how things were originally, and how they are meant to be. The way things were before was wrong, this is trying to correct it and bring life into the world."

From there, we would argue whether or not things should be as hard to farm, or if PVP servers should have as much PVP as they do now, then if/when we reach a consensus between us as to what is an acceptable rate of farming and what is an acceptable amount of PVP we would debate whether or not removing CRZ is the appropriate response to the problems.

Show me one poll in the history of anything that can have anywhere near the same arguments occur. Ever. Just one. (Hint: They don't exist.)
11/06/2012 01:48 PMPosted by Houndstooth
That's why it's really annoying and frustrating to see posts like OP that whine about "everybody" hates CRZ.


where is the complaint that everybody hates, OP said more complaints than positive
The logic that a poll is functionally different from extended posting if flawed. It is still a representation of a subset of the player base.


The problem with any polls here is that they are "at will" polls.
In that they only show the results of those who choose to answer them.

If 1000 people support an idea and 100 oppose it and you take a poll, what happens if only 10 of the supporters choose to answer it but all 100 of the opposition choose to answer it?

You end up with 10 yes and 100 no.
Which in no way represents the true numbers.
Here's the thing you're missing: In a debate, we can argue two seperate points. Example:

You: "I don't like CRZ. It makes farming stuff harder, and PVP realms involve too much PVP."
Me: "But this is how things were originally, and how they are meant to be. The way things were before was wrong, this is trying to correct it and bring life into the world."

From there, we would argue whether or not things should be as hard to farm, or if PVP servers should have as much PVP as they do now, then if/when we reach a consensus between us as to what is an acceptable rate of farming and what is an acceptable amount of PVP we would debate whether or not removing CRZ is the appropriate response to the problems.

Show me one poll in the history of anything that can have anywhere near the same arguments occur. Ever. Just one. (Hint: They don't exist.)


Again, not arguing that topics should not be discussed. Polling could simply reveal x percentage like CRZ, x percentage hate it, x percent OK if they can opt out. Having an idea of what those percentages are would, in my opinion, help to actually get to the very solutions everyone is looking for.

If 70% are against CRZ, then the solutions you are looking for are very different from the one you would look for if 70% are for it.

The OP wanting to see a poll to reveal those percentages is completely reasonable, and it doesn't take anything away from people being able to still have discussion. But the discussion itself becomes more relevant if topics like this can be brought further than just "everyone feels like this". Using polls would actually let individual players see for themselves how the percentages play out.

For my self, I don't like or want CRZ. But if I were to see a poll where 85% of the players responding wanted it, I probably would just accept that there is nothing that is going to be done and move on.
Hey there.

I personally think Blizzard knows about all the complaints so far, they're just not gonna post anything if they don't have a solution yet, it would be pointless, in the past it has been this same way.

Thing is, there's so much stuff to do in WoW right now (atleast at 90) that you don't need to do X or Y specifically to feel like you have progressed your character in some way.

For people leveling, specially 1-80, some improvements could be made to encourage group play.

About PvP, well, I think people got used to rolling a character in a PvP server like it was nothing, now that there's a lot of people around they finally understand how they work, same way with RP servers, some people roll there and don't have a clue what they're for, so maybe a warning like "You have choosen a PvP server, beware of... etc..." or "You have chosen an RP server..." and so on would be cool.
I personally think most of the WoW population (1) has no idea CRZ has even been implemented because (2) it does not affect them in the slightest.

The WoW forums are like when you go look through apartment building reviews. You know who's going to take the time to go online and write a bad review? Unhappy customers. Yet for every 10 bad apartment reviews, I'm sure there's "thousands upon thousands" who never had an issue with that apartment.

That's why it's really annoying and frustrating to see posts like OP that whine about "everybody" hates CRZ.


No, they notice but think it is just crap beta testing.
11/06/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Kewngpow
FYI, the forums do not even represent 1% of the game's population, and the vocal minority is exactly that: a minority.


yeah...it's true, they just deny it and call you a troll
11/06/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Aarschott
The logic that a poll is functionally different from extended posting if flawed. It is still a representation of a subset of the player base.


The problem with any polls here is that they are "at will" polls.
In that they only show the results of those who choose to answer them.

If 1000 people support an idea and 100 oppose it and you take a poll, what happens if only 10 of the supporters choose to answer it but all 100 of the opposition choose to answer it?

You end up with 10 yes and 100 no.
Which in no way represents the true numbers.


First, I will apologize to the OP...sorry I derailed this a bit. I will stop posting after this reply. But to Aarschott, the point you are making is what I was also pointing out to Snowfox. If you don't think polling is valid, then neither would the number of responses to threads be any more meaningful.

Either there is value to reading and posting on the forums or there isn't. If polling isn't valid, then why is it anymore valid to look at the number of threads or comments on a topic? I think there is value to the forum, but I think there would be even greater value if Blizz would do as the OP suggested and actually use polls in a meaningful way.

Then maybe this CRZ discussion can finally be put to rest, along with the usual other suspects.

In any case, I agree with the OP. ; )
Here's the thing : we only see a vast majority of people who complains on these forums. And those same people who complains does not represent even 1% of the entire WoW population. So while CRZ may be an issue to them, what about the rest of the folks out there?

Yeah.
11/06/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Kewngpow
FYI, the forums do not even represent 1% of the game's population, and the vocal minority is exactly that: a minority.


That problem could be solved by making the poll in-game once you log in. Log in, answer a simple question regarding CRZ, and then play.

The term vocal minority only means those who make their opinions known as opposed to the silent majority who don't. The silent majority favors neither side of the argument, as their opinions are unknown to anyone but themselves.

Case in point: My wife and I are both against CRZ, but she doesn't use the forums. Thus she's a part of the silent majority and not in favor of CRZ.

Only about 4% of customers who have an issue with a business actually complain to said business. The remaining 96% will just leave.

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