Let’s Talk About Brawler’s Guild

General Discussion
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Thanks for expressing your thoughts clearly and constructively, Nessaja. Just to reiterate: we're still considering the possibility of using alternate methods of distributing invitations.


How a long, epic questline where you have to prove yourself to the head of the Brawler's Guild by going to various smaller brawl sites scattered around Pandaria (or Azeroth) and dueling NPCs, etc. there? That'd be fun. :3


Better would be to have Brawlers scattered across all of Azeroth, give people a reason to go back into the older zones again.
Gold is easy to aquire but what will it be the price of the ticket? Will it go for 20k or 200k or 500k?

The way i am suggesting will make sure that people that actually work for the ticket will get it. Its a much better way to distribute tickets, just admit it.
i've been soloing dungeons at or above my level for years. i've killed bosses 6 levels higher than me by myself.

bring it.
It sounds like Activision Blizzard is looking for a way to gate the invitations and I am in favor of using gold as a way. Look, life is not meant to be fair or random - some people have more resources than others and thus will have better things / get them sooner than others. Rich people can afford nicer things - this hasn't changed since the dawn of time and has only become more simple to understand with the concept of currency. The rewards are fairly insignificant and the content, to be honest, is just a mix between dailies and challenge modes. The only thing that is cool about this at all is the exclusivity - and it's totally fair to make exclusivity something exclusive.

I have an amount I am willing to pay and will just wait for prices to drop to that amount. I've been doing my dailies and selling on the AH so I'm hoping it will only take a few weeks. But I'm not losing sleep over this.

11/08/2012 01:15 PMPosted by Mornelitheii
Unfortunately, I don't really care. Not switching specs, gems and reforges just for silly bragging rights and achv pts. Much like Challenge Modes. Opportunity - Swing and a miss!


You bring up an interesting point. Do you even know if Brawler's Guild will be more entertaining than Challenge Modes? They are both difficult PVE encounters... Challenge Modes were the first time they made difficult 5-man PVE encounters, this is the first time they are doing difficult solo PVE encounters.
11/08/2012 01:32 PMPosted by Thoradin
A venue for a realm’s community to come together


Have you seen you realm's trade chat? Probably little trading going on, a lot of trolling and argueing going on in there. Focus on guild activities imo. That is where our community majority is. Yes we have friends outsides our guilds, but I bet a lot of players are pretty comfortable and feel like a community with their guild.

since a big part of the Brawler’s Guild is watching other players fight their own battles, right now instancing arenas or using phasing isn’t an attractive option.


Make a guild hall, that is tied to your guild tag and nothing else. So you can have your brawler's guild in the basement of that. This will allow your guild to watch you and you only have to compete with your guildies for q times not your realm.

Also it would add a guild hall to the game which i know we have been asking for, for years!
2 birds and 1 awesome stone

PS Nix the BMAH idea


Agreed, this absolutely. All of my farmed mats go towards the 3 normal groups we have going in our guild. I simply have too much going to my own guild to worry about making money myself.

As far as the Guild Hall is concerned, it's an idea we've been talking about in our guild. Not only have the brawler's area in the basement, but you could also have 'trophies' for your guild achievements in your guild hall. Remember Onyxia's head hanging from the gates of Stormwind? How about that hanging above the fireplace in your guild hall.

Things like that. Would be a great addition to the game imo.
Gold is easy to aquire but what will it be the price of the ticket? Will it go for 20k or 200k or 500k?

The way i am suggesting will make sure that people that actually work for the ticket will get it. Its a much better way to distribute tickets, just admit it.


I am not doing another 500 dailies on all my alts to get them in the guild. I'm already prevented from using my VP for VP gear because of daily gates, I do not want any more content gated behind dailies.

Make a guild hall, that is tied to your guild tag and nothing else. So you can have your brawler's guild in the basement of that. This will allow your guild to watch you and you only have to compete with your guildies for q times not your realm.

Also it would add a guild hall to the game which i know we have been asking for, for years!
2 birds and 1 awesome stone

PS Nix the BMAH idea


Then it would truly be Brawler's "Guild". :)

I love this idea!

I'd like there to also be an option for non-guilded players, but yes, guild-based Brawler's Guild would be excellent - perform for the social environment you actually enjoy socializing with!
I have a feeling its either going to be way to hard for the typical player, and or the rewards you get from doing it will suck. Like rings/necks. Same ol same ol.
11/08/2012 11:59 AMPosted by Daxxarri
As I stated in the original post, the Brawler's Guild was never intended to be the big patch feature of 5.1, despite the excitement surrounding it.


Did you honestly think that a playerbase that is burnt out on grinding dailies would see "Moar dailies" as the big draw for 5.1? Of course not, you're smarter than that (I hope). Beyond that, if the brawler's guild wasn't expected to be the big thing of the patch you wouldn't have tied it into a very expensive gold sink (inb4 "I have 15 gold capped characters, 10k isn't much from the peanut gallery) in order to drain as much out of the economy as you could due to said exclusivity.

The Brawler's Guild, and the VP upgrade system, were the 2 big announcements for the patch. You're trying to downplay it being such after the backlash against the decision to make in-game content gold-only accessible, just like you did with the "pre-Mists event" that later became a "not an event" after the FoT scenario wound up being a flop, because the community is responding so negatively to the change that was announced on Friday.

11/08/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Daxxarri
Finally, a smaller population will help keep the queues low for quite a while – since a big part of the Brawler’s Guild is watching other players fight their own battles, right now instancing arenas or using phasing isn’t an attractive option.


I also wanted to address this. Phasing and instancing does resolve the issues that are brought up by only permitting 1 person per faction, per realm, access to the guild at a time. It would be a very simple matter to provide a spectator option at a listing board that would phase people into an audience for a particular fight, and doing it that way would also address problems that crowding has on game performance (not to mention the griefing it would lead to), and it would provide opportunities to have show case fights (every server has some well known, skilled players or guilds that are followed).
Agreed, this absolutely. All of my farmed mats go towards the 3 normal groups we have going in our guild. I simply have too much going to my own guild to worry about making money myself.


So because you choose to be poor, those who don't should be punished? That is exceedingly kind of you.

Some final thoughts for the time being: you mentioned that one of the intentions of the Brawler's Guild was to provide PVE bragging rights. Challenge Modes have a fantastic system for doing this, and I think that Brawler's Guild could learn a lot from them. Offer a title, offer a highly visible vanity transmog item, offer a mount, or a pet; things like that have been shown to be fantastic rewards as kudos, and are far more visible than anything the Brawler's Guild currently offers.


Yet I don't see people whining about not being able to get into Challenge Modes... they are just overreacting to the stark reality that they are not rich. People who make money deserve to buy more things with their money???
What I think about the invitation system? A stupid idea.

If I pay the same as everyone else playing this game because I have to stay out of the brawler's and how long it might take to get an invite?
You know that not everyone is in a guild and not everyone has tons of friends and tons of money.
11/08/2012 01:40 PMPosted by Redlukey
Agreed, this absolutely. All of my farmed mats go towards the 3 normal groups we have going in our guild. I simply have too much going to my own guild to worry about making money myself.


So because you choose to be poor, those who don't should be punished? That is exceedingly kind of you.


Did I say they should be punished? I simply said I don't care about the Brawler's Guild. That's all. If people are interested that's fine, there's plenty in WoW that I could care less about that people love (PvP for example). Go figure, people have different interests in game.

Next time, learn to read.



You bring up an interesting point. Do you even know if Brawler's Guild will be more entertaining than Challenge Modes? They are both difficult PVE encounters... Challenge Modes were the first time they made difficult 5-man PVE encounters, this is the first time they are doing difficult solo PVE encounters.


What I know is what I've read, it's not about progression, it's simply about bragging rights and achievement points. I prefer raiding, and working towards progressing my character in WoW. It's my interest though, and I do understand other people are interested in other things. So that's fine, really, more power to 'em. It's their $15/mo, and are absolutely entitled to do with it as they please. Whatever makes you happy, right?
Though the idea that buying the initial passes off BMAH sounds reasonable considering lower que times , you also have to consider that the people buying these initial passes can potentially sell invites to other players based on gold payed to them. Rather than being a controlled invitation , this becomes a money making machine kinda thing for all the gold loaded players out there who can pretty much sell the invites at steep prices , and only the rich who can buy the invites/passes can get in, which is really unfair.

Rather than having a gold based invite off the BMAH ( from which the auction price would be pretty steep ) , wouldnt it be better to have either a random approach or sweepstakes sort of an approach. Unless , you re using this idea to siphon off more gold from the economies , as the price paid for these passes is pretty much a dead end for the gold.


Are you really that surprised? People have been asking for more solo-content for YEARS. Like for as long as I can remember. So here you are, finally delivering what purports to be challenging solo-content, and you've decided to limit access to wealth.

And you're wondering why people are both excited for this feature and at the same time frustrated with the design choices you've made?


No, we're not surprised, but World of Warcraft hasn't traditionally been about solo content, either. Really, it still isn't - while you fight alone at the Brawler's Guild, you're surrounded by your peers. It's, at least in spirit, still social.

The whole thing is very much an experiment.

I think it's also worth mentioning that the feedback we're receiving on this isn't being ignored, and that we're still considering alternate methods of distributing the invitations.


How many times can you guys be surprised about how popular things like farming, pet battles, or transmogrifying are before you realize that people *like* and *want* more single player content too?

You've killed the idea of small group play by making it so heroics only matter til you're in blues then there's 0 purpose in doing them ever again, challenge modes require such ridiculous stacking to do that it makes it daunting to even get groups started for it, so right now, it's raid content, or single player content. Right now, single player content, besides what was mentioned earlier, are dailies, and you know by now what the community feels about them. Personally, they're not a bad thing, but they can't be the *ONLY* thing to do.
Everyone has beat the problems to death on this one.

So some solutions:

Invites:

- Gold is a limiting factor, and so shouldn't be used. And time/random has an uncertainty factor, making people get bored of hoping, before they even see it.
- Maybe a long quest chain to earn an invite. This would slow most people down to avoid the initial rush, which seems is like all you are trying to avoid. Of course, it could be instanced...see below
- A daily competition and the first 10 winners get invites. Mount races, gathering races (open to all), quest races, "egg"-hunt, anything that gives each player a fair chance but where they feel they could win.....and after a winner does win, they cannot enter again.

Instance:

- Having one unlimited instance is going to be laggy and just a mess. Queuing for 3hrs is not appealing to anyone.
- Have sized instances, say around 20/40/60 people would be a better number. You would increase/decrease dynamically. Why not even use the same CRZ technology to adjust the size. Still potentially long queues though.
- Have a single instance per player and NPCs (rather than players) as the spectators. Some won't care to watch others, but just want to participate themselves.
- Or combined both: choice between a single instance or a raid-sized instance
So dropping over 100K on the Yak mount isn't good enough to get an invite?

Someone up there said the invites are gonna cost 1K each. Is this true?
Im sorry but this is bull there shouldn't be invites at all. If you are adding new content you can't limit it to the few people who will spend gold for content. Gold=play time =$. Im sorry i pay for the game to play the content if your going to make me pay for some lil bit of content then i just won't be involved. I love the idea of it but you shouldn't limit it all. If you can't make something that works for everyone who pays for the game you shouldn't have developed it in the first place.What little gold the average player has can't do this. Not to mention the higher the population of the realm the more gold these things will end up being.Get rid of this invitation idea or find a better way to make it work. Don't make player spend gold on a faction to end up spending more time in game. Don't say thats a choice of the player because thats bs everyone who knows about this is going to want to play. You shouldn't make factions into the same concept as mounts and items. Limited to the few but access to all. At least open the faction up in the next coming patch if you insist on staying with ridiculous proposal of paying to play for content we already pay for. Its like a double tax.
11/08/2012 01:40 PMPosted by Redlukey
So because you choose to be poor, those who don't should be punished? That is exceedingly kind of you.


How is letting content be accessed by people that aren't religious about farming the AH a punishment for those of us that are?

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