Cross-Realm Zones Update

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I am a little surprised with this CRZ update.

I would have expected more of a PR schmooze response to the thousands of comments so far with how much CRZ is not wanted or needed.

Instead we get a response that says all of the feedback for the past couple of months has fallen on deaf ears.


Not deaf ears just all the feedback is over exaggerated BS like "I can't level" or "People are mean to me"

Have you seen all the lvl 90 monks these people leveled just fine.... just like I did. Did I run into morons? Sure just like everyone else does some were even from my realm.


I don't understand players who roll characters on player vs player servers, then complain that someone killed them while they were questing or gathering resources. /mind boggled
I am a little surprised with this CRZ update.

I would have expected more of a PR schmooze response to the thousands of comments so far with how much CRZ is not wanted or needed.

Instead we get a response that says all of the feedback for the past couple of months has fallen on deaf ears.
Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't read the feedback.


I didn't say they didn't read the feedback, what I did say was "I would have expected more of a PR schmooze response to the thousands of comments so far with how much CRZ is not wanted or needed."

There was nothing in the update that addressed issues people have with CRZ.
10/30/2012 05:47 PMPosted by Nobully
Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content.


If by foster social experiences you mean want to kill people of my own faction for steeling quest kills/items and zone resources then yes, you have indeed fostered MMO Social experiences.
Just because they don't agree with you doesn't mean they didn't read the feedback.


I didn't say they didn't read the feedback, what I did say was "I would have expected more of a PR schmooze response to the thousands of comments so far with how much CRZ is not wanted or needed."

There was nothing in the update that addressed issues people have with CRZ.
What exactly does fallen on deaf ears imply?
This update is like the captain of the Titanic saying "So, we know we've had a bit of an issue, but overall we're happy with the performance of this vessel. Nobody panic, it'll all be good soon!" just as the water begins filling the lower decks and the ship starts to sink on one end.

Not meaning to relate WoW to a sinking ship, but feeling quite a lot like only 25% of the concerns regarding CRZ were addressed, the other 75% were danced over with total absolution.

There is a small fraction of people (Probably the ones who enjoy ganking lowbies at the dark portal - or killing you when you're almost at the end of a long escort quest (after most likely watching your progress for a bit).) who really enjoy CRZ. The rest of us are having a difficult time leveling because it is a totally unfair environment to level in now. (I have gotten ganked by a couple of people around my level, no worries - I expect that.)

I don't have a level 90 yet to come fight back with, I'm enjoying leveling my panda. I don't want to feel like I *HAVE* to level a toon to 90, gather PVP gear and keep him close to my character I'm leveling at all times just to not be painfully and disgustingly harassed by higher levels who apparently don't have enough end game content to keep them busy.

I offered some suggestions to alleviate the issues in another post, but I'll reiterate them here just so they're in the right spot.

Suggestion A: Only allow level 90's to see other characters from which a kill would grant them honor.
Or
Suggestion B: Only allow level 90's (Or anyone really) to attack another character when they would receive honor. This would allow for same or near same level PVP, but no unfair gankery. I would chose this one above suggestion A personally.

Anyway, I would normally say any update is better than no update, but in this case I feel completely insulted by this update.

I love you Blizzard, for real - but there are things that people are talking about that you're not addressing, please address ALL of the issues presented.
10/30/2012 06:04 PMPosted by Emeraude
Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content.


If by foster social experiences you mean want to kill people of my own faction for steeling quest kills/items and zone resources then yes, you have indeed fostered MMO Social experiences.
Competition is a social experience.


Not deaf ears just all the feedback is over exaggerated BS like "I can't level" or "People are mean to me"

Have you seen all the lvl 90 monks these people leveled just fine.... just like I did. Did I run into morons? Sure just like everyone else does some were even from my realm.


I don't understand players who roll characters on player vs player servers, then complain that someone killed them while they were questing or gathering resources. /mind boggled


This is a new one for me too.
no substance, no answers...

just a lot of we're discussing, well maybe's. topped off with more blindly led propaganda without addressing a SINGLE concern over the so called feature.

We need a CRZ update with some of the following:

- A direction on the timezone issue... not "we hear you, though we haven't thought of a fix yet"
- A solution to the gathering issues via CRZ
- A solution to the pvp flagging on PvE realms due to CRZ
- An answer to this simple question:

Why is CRZ needed? please explain why Azeroth needs populated zones when there is ZERO reason to randomly group with people in said zones.
Group quests are a thing of the past, hell, we are leveling so quickly through zones that we barely spend enough time in them to see that many more people anyhow.

I'm sure there are many, MANY other "issues" to address in the 11 multiple page threads out there. Please Blizzard, touch on a couple of them with ACTUAL answers at this point.

CRZ has been out long enough... we are past the point of these types of updates. Answers are in order.


I don't understand players who roll characters on player vs player servers, then complain that someone killed them while they were questing or gathering resources. /mind boggled


This is a new one for me too.


Like I'm sure several people did, I started on a PVP server a *really* long time ago. I was in a large guild who would come to your aid if there was unfairness abounding, I got several toons to max level. Now, my old guild is gone mostly, new guild is ok but not rushing in to fight in hellfire, they're trying to RBG and Raid.

I didn't really understand the PVP thing back when I stared, but I do now and I also understand the three digits it would cost to move to a PVE server. I don't mind fighting someone my own level, that would be honing skills and whatnot. But getting ganked by people with 80x your health, because they can, is not fun even slightly. I'm sorry, it just isn't.

It's not about 'mean', it's more about a level playing field.
Thank you Blizzard for continuing to work out the kinks with Cross-Realm Zones. They've been a highly valued addition so far and I look forward to continuing to enjoy them in the future.
Blizzard has spent too much time and effort(read: money) on CRZs to scrap them, despite the fact that LARGE swaths of their player base dislike them. I have spoken to lots of ppl on various forums and in game. The number of people who like them are far and few between.

Problem is Blizz has flat out said they take forums posts with a grain of salt as they "do not represent the majority of the player base". So they count all the forum posters as haters and the rest of the non posters as lovers.


When I cancel my 2nd account I'll be sure to put CRZ is the reason. Perhaps they will start to take the forums seriously when the feedback on canceled accounts says what those of us on the forums have been saying for months.
Get rid of all timezone jumps IMO.

Also would be nice if NPCs, resource nodes, etc wouldn't display in adjacent zones of crossing the zone barrier will cause me to leave/enter CRZ where those NPCs and nodes may not exist.
@Dezu. This is for you. Here is my complaint to add to your mind boggle. CRZ World PVP is plagued by BROKEN systems. My cut and paste of my response to another thread.

I am repeating myself here but I will chime in my support for the OP too. And I do this from the Alliance side of Cho'gall. Call me a carebear but I know better. I liked the challenge of being outnumbered and outgeared for the thrill of constant danger of moving through the world. CRZ has BROKEN the PVP world I once enjoyed. CRZ is not a PVP server, it is a chaotic mix of PVP servers where alarm systems are BROKEN, the tools we used to protect low levels players are BROKEN, and all community-based actions to provide punishment of offenders are BROKEN when they can simply go back to their server. For the past couple of years, myself and others have tried to encourage new players to reroll and level on Cho'gall to rebuild our population. We promised them protection in hopes they would grow up and join our "fight". In good conscience I can no longer encourage people to level on Cho'gall. CRZ ruined our ability to protect levelers.

Those of us who played on PVP servers knew damn well Blizzard wasn't going to step in when you would report someone for ganking you and "being mean". We knew it was our job to self-police the server. And we did. I will speak to my experience when the pre-MoP patch hit. Excuse me if some info is no longer accurate because I have since cancelled my account and will NOT buy MoP.

WorldDefense Alarms: When a WorldDefense alarm went off on Cho'gall people went out to investigate. You can compare that to our personal police action where we sent out a patrol car to investigate. If that person found something he could easily call for help in his guild or in global channels we made like one called /dispatch where all people interested in defending our world could monitor things like you would with CB radio.
After CRZ went live WorldDefense channel alarms were BROKEN. Not only were there many more alarms constantly going off in all corners of Azeroth but most of these extra alarms were FALSE alarms. You need to get a lucky RNG assignment from some stupid CRZ algorithm to just show up in the right zone. As soon as you crossed zones on your way to investigate, the alarms you were chasing would often disappear to be replaced by a whole new set of WorldDefense alarms which were likely to be just as FALSE.

Lowbie Ganking: On my server if a lowbie was getting ganked he always knew he could ask in guild chat or channels like /dispatch and people would come help. People eagerly responded and could do so quickly with that beautiful HGWT feature.
After CRZ went live those capabilities were BROKEN. Not only did we lose HGWT, but we also had no guarantee you could actually get to the lowbie. A high level guildie responding to a low level guildie will often NOT show up in the same realm zone. If you form group you improve the chances but it is just as likely you will cause a server switch again so the ganker is poofed out of punishment's way. And even if you did reach the lowbie and ganker in the same place you may get in just one retribution kill and he could then mount his flyer to escape further punishment by running away to another realm. That is hardly a just punishment in the eye-for-an-eye environment of a PVP world when that lowbie may have been corpse camped for an hour.

Cross-Realm Reinforcements: Okay, you say you have more ganking issues but you have more help with all those cross-realm people who joined your side, right? WRONG. Because communication with your faction that now share your world is BROKEN. You can not see or effectively communicate with cross-realmers because /who function does not see them. Continuing the police force metaphor it is like you are the local Police Department and you do not have the phone number of the County Sheriff. The only direct communication you have with the other realms is in General chat for a given zone. In the context of the greater police response that might be required that is similar to asking our ganking victim to run out in the street in hopes of flagging down a patrol car that might be in the neighborhood, instead of calling 911 and expecting real help. Even if you can flag down that guy, if he is outnumbered and needs reinforcements he would run into exactly the same problems of having reinforcements show up to the right place as outlined above.

Mob Mentality. Cho'gall is heavily imbalanced. Horde outnumber Alliance 12 to 1. It was fun in a challenging underdog way because every one of your Alliance partners would come watch your back. There are many times we would get steamrolled when trying to defend our cities with a handful of 85's against full raids of Horde, but we fought tooth and nail. It might sound masochistic but it was fun as hell. We would fight, we would die, Varian would die, and the Horde would leave the city. Sometimes we would even win and drive them off. After CRZ when Dark Portal camping started I made a conscious effort to figure out how to respond and clear the way for guildies to get to Outland to quest. Flying out there my addon that shows the enemy immediately filled up to full (25 Horde). I tried to count the rest and eventually gave up but I know there were more than 50. There was no point trying to get a real count because I was nearly dying every minute from dots (and parachutes). By using /who 85 to try to see how much backup I might have there were only 25 possible reinforcements on all of Cho'gall. If I could convince every single one of them to come we would still get rolled. Of course the /who Blasted Lands function came up zero for cross-realmers. You can not disperse the mob if you have no capability to form your own mob.

The Final Law and Order - The Realm Community: Ultimately the previous PVP happens on a PVP server was just fine because there always was the ultimate law, the people around you on your own realm. You do not risk crossing the line on your own realm when the punishment could be extremely harsh. We all expected ganking. We expected some griefing. But when we the citizens of the realm felt the crime crossed the line to harassment we could punish you fiercely. If some lowbie got ganked it would be like a police report would be filled out. Names and details would be recorded and we had plenty of volunteer enforcers who would gladly step up to hand out the punishment. Those enforcers would then take great delight in hunting down the ganker every time he left his home city. If the lowbie died five times he could expect to die five times himself, plus more if possible to send a message. If he would go back to his own faction for help he would often be laughed at if the full story came to light. Guild leaders from both sides would even communicate from side to side on level 1's to see when the punishment was fair. War is war, but there still are war criminals, and sometimes his own guild leader would agree someone crossed that line and boot him to curb. Bad reputation can spread quickly in a single realm community and people became pariahs when they were real jerks.

After CRZ? The capability to hand out community punishments are BROKEN. The worst offenders can happily dance back across borders to other realms without any fear of extradition.

There has been a 1-page "PVP happens on PVP servers rule book" for many years. CRZ keeps that dumbed down rulebook but refuses to acknowledge CRZ has BROKEN the tools that made that simple rule set viable. This is not the same place where it was just Southshore vs. Tarren Mill and World PVP was fun. The world is much larger now. Flyers can hunt lowbies like hawks hunt prairie dogs. The gear gap grows exponentially with each expac. The final straw was CRZ that made any type of self-policing nearly impossible. I have enjoyed playing the survival game on an underdog PVP realm without any hope of playing end game or having a functional economy. This new game of World PVP policeman is not enjoyable and this one little niche of the game play was finally BROKEN by CRZ. The criminals win when the police wear the handcuffs.
we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content
I think it's hilarious they are still saying that. 1-90 is a 100% complete solo experience. There is 0 need to ever group up while leveling.
I honestly don't care about CRZ, except the fact that every zone is full of 90's ganking everyone over and over and over again. Yep, definitely increases my social experience into homicidal thoughts.

CRZ would be fine for me if Blizzard would cap the damn cross-realm player levels allowed in each zone to the actual zone level range. If someone from my server ganks me, fine it might happen once or twice an hour. At this rate, I gave up trying to level any character through Outlands because it's a campfest.

Thank you Blizzard, this feature blows.

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