Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

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11/16/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Rabbsm


Who's legging are you pulling?How many toons have you lvl'd now with CRZ? it does NOT fit seamlessly into the gameplay of ANYONE lvling pre-mop zones. Leveling on a pvp server is now almost utterly impossible because you don't know seem to understand the type of people that play this game. Ganking and griefing is at an all time high. Being camped endlessly by lvl90 players is horrible. Respawn of quest mob's way to long for the amount of people in the zone. Camping rares, farming nodes, and even going after specific pet battle pets nearly impossible to do now thanks to CRZ. You said you'd adjust respawns of nodes and rares, I dont think anyone can see the difference one bit. Flying around outlands looking for herbs or mining nodes, there are NONE.


Did you play in vanilla? Honest question. This is exactly how the game started out, with TONS of people in every zone.

So no, I don't really notice it or care about it, since it's how the game started for me.

This panda was not a RAF, and not my first 90. I maxxed out herbalism without any issues for nodes.


Yeah I keep trying to tell them this too. And I've leveled 3 alts to 85+ along with 3 gathering and 3 crafting profs since CRZ. No problems, no issues, no big deal. Not even with quests.

But oh no, someone got a cobalt node jacked by somebody with a * next to their name so clearly CRZ is a gigantic failure.
Another person that had no trouble leveling a fresh toon with professions in the post-CRZ world, and I started this toon on MoP's release day, in the middle of the monk rush.
Look! A lot of people do not like CRZ. Just put in an option where people can turn it off if they want. If so many people enjoy CRZ, then they'll get what they want, and others will be able to quest in peace without being trolled, finding dead quest givers, and running into people they'll never get to see again, or trade with.
Brace yourself, because I'm about to say some things that will probably ruffle a few feathers. Got your feathers ready? Okay, here we go:

We have a long tradition of explaining our design decisions. In addition the various posts we make on the forums, there are numerous Dev Watercooler blogs authored by Ghostcrawler and other developers that exist solely to discuss what we're thinking, and why we're thinking it. Those vary in frequency since, ultimately, developer time is best spent doing things like developing World of Warcraft.

That said, there will be times when, after reviewing the feedback, we still stick to our guns and not offer a follow-up explanation regarding why. There are pitfalls to starting a discussion to provide our rationale after such an event:

Players that are okay with or neutral toward the situation don't particularly care.
The players that aren't okay with the situation almost certainly aren't going to change their minds because we made a post. They're almost always heavily invested in a particular position on the subject, and further discourse won't alter their opinion. In these cases, the expressed desire for follow-up on feedback doesn't result in useful clarification; it simply provides more ammunition for a debate. Typically a debate that already played out in prior feedback and resulted in a decision one way or another.
While sometimes it's necessary to make our stance clear, refraining from a 'this is just the way it is, and here's why' statement can offer us the latitude to change our minds in the future. In some cases, we're still evaluating a situation, but we need to see how it plays out for longer than a few weeks.

And, on that note, it's very much worth noting that we change our minds with a fair amount of frequency. Our decision to provide alternative means to acquire Brawler's Guild invitations was based on player feedback, but I didn't create a post to discuss why that decision was made, just as I probably wouldn't have created a post to explain why we didn't make the change--the rationale was already out there, and it's still largely in place. That change is a compromise.

CRZ is harshly criticized by some, and praised by some, but mostly it fits seamlessly into the gameplay of many (as it was intended to). The technology makes possible some truly cool things, like cross realm parties. It's a response to the many complaints that the old world felt empty and devoid of life. It's also a lot more than that. We're aware of the concerns that players have expressed about it, and we'll continue to improve it so the experience that players have with it only gets better.

Yes, the current design for dailies is very much based on player feedback, and it fixes some of the things that, ultimately, really weren't working well in Cataclysm. Now we're seeing a totally different kind of feedback, and we'll learn from that too. World of Warcraft is still very much an iterative entity.

Finally, some food for thought. Some changes that are pretty much universally embraced now were highly contentious in their time. For example, one of the largest debates World of Warcraft has ever seen revolved around something as essential and commonplace today as offering non-raiders access to epic items. Some of you will recall that this was an extremely active debate, and opinions were harshly divided (and harshly expressed) on the subject. We'll continue to listen to player feedback as we design into the future - but we also know that we can't please all the people all the time. If nothing else, history has absolutely taught us that.

Of course, we're still going to try.


No feathers ruffled here... however...

If CRZ is here to stay, it would be nice if we could get some confimation that the fishing tournaments will be back and that two player mounts will eventually be fixed.

I will just have to live with sharing my critter trapping wtih 11 other servers (damn you minifernal!). It would also be nice if the spawns for these rare creatures were not tied to server restarts since my server is never the fist to come back up:(
11/16/2012 02:11 PMPosted by Tatertawt
I don't know why you guys cannot admit you made a mistake and just give us some alternate ways to gain rep. Many excellent suggestions have been made and yes, before you say it, making the dailies the only path to reputation progression was a mistake.


There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.

If CRZ is here to stay, it would be nice if we could get some confimation that the fishing tournaments will be back and that two player mounts will eventually be fixed.


Those are both issues that we're working on, amongst others.
11/16/2012 02:15 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.


I would be more hopeful about this if Soon™ didn't exist.
11/16/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Rabbsm


Who's legging are you pulling?How many toons have you lvl'd now with CRZ? it does NOT fit seamlessly into the gameplay of ANYONE lvling pre-mop zones. Leveling on a pvp server is now almost utterly impossible because you don't know seem to understand the type of people that play this game. Ganking and griefing is at an all time high. Being camped endlessly by lvl90 players is horrible. Respawn of quest mob's way to long for the amount of people in the zone. Camping rares, farming nodes, and even going after specific pet battle pets nearly impossible to do now thanks to CRZ. You said you'd adjust respawns of nodes and rares, I dont think anyone can see the difference one bit. Flying around outlands looking for herbs or mining nodes, there are NONE.


Did you play in vanilla? Honest question. This is exactly how the game started out, with TONS of people in every zone.

So no, I don't really notice it or care about it, since it's how the game started for me.

This panda was not a RAF, and not my first 90. I maxxed out herbalism without any issues for nodes.


No I did not play during it, and if how the game is now is how it was then. Believe me, I wouldn't of stayed. You have specific servers for a reason, you have paid server transfers for a reason. I love certain aspects of CRZ, basically everything that doesn't forcefully shove people from others servers into mine or vice-versa. No one should be forced to play in CRZ's, it should be a choice, like inviting a Real-ID friend to party an quest with you. The current CRZ is nothing but trouble, causing nothing but trouble and brings about nothing but pain an suffering for the average player.


Yeah I keep trying to tell them this too. And I've leveled 3 alts to 85+ along with 3 gathering and 3 crafting profs since CRZ. No problems, no issues, no big deal. Not even with quests.

But oh no, someone got a cobalt node jacked by somebody with a * next to their name so clearly CRZ is a gigantic failure.

So just because you haven't experienced a problem, said problem doesn't exist?

A lot of people are having issues. A lot of people aren't having issues.

That doesn't mean issues shouldn't be fixed, because they're not being experienced by everyone.


No, but because I haven't experienced a problem, despite having looked very hard for said problem and put myself in a position to experience it frequently over a period of several weeks, I would bet money that mot of these problems are highly exaggerated by forum posters who just don't like having a smidge of potential competition.
Crossrealm parties I love & all (I really do)... but seamlessly isn't even the word I'd use for CRZ. >_>


"Mostly" is a key part of that sentence. There are certainly still improvements to make.

Just taking a guess here but I would think Blizzard generates a lot of its information just by watching how people play. What content they do and don't do, player activity, time spent playing, etc.


Your guess is spot on. We are constantly gathering and analyzing information on gameplay. Raw data is tremendously useful, but it doesn't really offer context, which is why other sources of information are essential.


Word of caution on that methodology. Certain things are not (realistically anyhow) avoidable. Grinding reps in order to be able to spend rewards from instances you also had to grind to get those rewards. Just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean they are "thrilled beyond words to be doing it". When there are multiple paths to a goal, but only one lets you get there in less than a million years so everyone takes it...that doesn't mean people approve of that path. It just means that was the lesser of multiple evils. Pure numbers of population does not imply approval...it just implies a greater disproval of alternative route...the route taken may still suck worse than the intake of a jet fighter.

Since there is no avoiding CRZ, can't really apply numbers participating on that either...but if you do, I would suggest breaking the results down into pvp realms vs pve realms...the result differences will most likely be astronomic.
Eh... Maybe if they watch me play it'll make a stronger statement how I feel about CRZ that I avoid pretty much every area outside of Pandaria now. Four whole continents (counting Outland) I avoid because CRZ is buggy, annoying, and leaves me so pissed off I turn the game off after a short time.

The "old world" was empty not because there weren't enough people, but because there wasn't enough to do. You took the game and compressed it into the capital cities. You could portal to all of the Cata zones from Orgrimmar or Stormwind. That's why the other major cities were similarly deserted. You stripped every reason to be anywhere else away. There's very little for top-level players to do in the old world. You helped that some with the pet battles. But otherwise, it's mostly just gathering mats to sell on the AH or to help level an alt's professions. Now people can add easier griefing to the reasons they should go to the old areas. You can't make the game's focus entirely on the new areas, give portals to get there, and then expect people to stay in the old content no one wants to run.

The few reasons I had to go to the "old world" are ironically broken by CRZ. You removed the fishing tourneys while means I can't get a title I was close to getting, thanks for that. (At least take them out of the bloody meta requirements!) The Darkmoon Faire is a dice roll for whether you'll be on an appropriate server for the portal to be up (and too many people had it closed early for them because they were forced to a later time zone by CRZ). Timed events are almost impossible. Rare spawns have even more competition than before (and it was hard enough to find them up). I really don't have much of a reason, so why bother? And my alts are pretty much all going to level through dungeons and BGs now, because I don't want to deal with lag, time zone swaps, griefing players, and all of the "bonuses" of CRZ. That's one less person out and about in the "old world."

CRZ makes the "old world" unbearable with the glitches and broken/missing features, and the dailies-for-rep that are too tedious for me to do (Molten Front *once* was bad enough, I swore I'd never do that again) which means Pandaria will have nothing for me once I get my Loremaster of Pandaria. So that leaves me very little to do in-game. Once I'm at 463 or above on all my gear, I won't even need to run dungeons, since I can't buy anything with all this Valor I'm getting. I'm down to doing my daily farming, the occasional LFR (to gear for raids, since Valor gear is out), and... that's it. No wonder I spend most nights on WoW for an hour or less and then hop on the couch away from the computer, where I used to have a hard time pulling myself away from the game.

It'd be one thing if I had this much-touted "choice" I kept hearing about, but I have no choice on whether I want a broken feature making most of the world miserable, and I have no choice on how I want to earn rep. So yeah... that's... awesome.
Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback


In all honesty, I am sick of ignorant players carelessly talking out their pooters with no repercussions.
I'm going to focus on the plain-out misleading done here. They championed the fact that they were removing head enchants, spoke to us at length about how pandaria would be the expansion where we could do whatever we want, and grind/quest wherever we wanted.

The reality: they removed head enchants, put virtually everything else behind faction grinds.


This one I have to agree with fully.

They went on and on about how they didn't want anyone to have to grind out reputations they didn't want to in order to gear up, and then they flat out tell you "good luck spending your valor though if you don't lol!"?
11/16/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Cylthia
Man, I got my feathers all ready and you didn't ruffle them at all! Yet another disappointment from Blizz!


what?
here is a picture of a bridge...:
http://www.htmlhelp.com/~liam/Ontario/NiagaraFalls/RainbowBridge/RainbowBridge.jpg

Now get over it.
Can we get a response on why shaman totems are changing to spells? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004448292?page=28
11/16/2012 02:14 PMPosted by Vios
Look! A lot of people do not like CRZ. Just put in an option where people can turn it off if they want. If so many people enjoy CRZ, then they'll get what they want, and others will be able to quest in peace without being trolled, finding dead quest givers, and running into people they'll never get to see again, or trade with.


The really funny thing about this is they wont give us an opt out feature because they know everyone will turn it off lol says a lot about it.

Sure it would be nice to see the old world populated but with people that were drawn back out there by something interesting, CRZ people running around all over the place are no different to NPC's they just give the illusion that you're not alone.
Crossrealm parties I love & all (I really do)... but seamlessly isn't even the word I'd use for CRZ. >_>


"Mostly" is a key part of that sentence. There are certainly still improvements to make.

Just taking a guess here but I would think Blizzard generates a lot of its information just by watching how people play. What content they do and don't do, player activity, time spent playing, etc.


Your guess is spot on. We are constantly gathering and analyzing information on gameplay. Raw data is tremendously useful, but it doesn't really offer context, which is why other sources of information are essential.


Sure and you also have feedback from people that work at Blizzard that play in this world they helped to create. Surely having that internal type of data proves to be useful in seeing what is going on in the game?

You guys seem to be taking a stance that the present points of complaint aren't going away anytime soon but you are willing to listen to suggestions on how to possibly change them so the player base calms down. If that is the case I don't see it as unreasonable. I just wish I had an eta to when I can participate in the fishing tournaments. :P
Oh, and my raiding team is well aware of how I feel about Valor gear. Thankfully, they're very casual, because I would rather just give up raiding than come home from work and do MORE work. I swear, I have to hear about peace all day from Pandaren and how fighting is bad, y'all, mmkay, but they all want me to kill entire armies for them just to be able to get some bloody gear. They need to make up their bloody minds.


There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.

Make sure not to return to the tabard method. Reputation is finally meaningful and with the new valor upgrade system, it is actually a meaningful choice on how you progress your character.

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