Stats for Guardian Druid

Druid
I'm in an active research / trial for what's best for tanking as bear. A friend of mine pointed me to a web page that seems to be famous, called "Ask Mr Robot". It's some kind of Bis Calculator.

In there I find that almost every piece of armor is reforged to dodge, paying no attention wse to Hit Rating cap nor Expertise Cap. In fact, some items are reforged directly Hit -> Dodge.

I need some advice on this. Last night was my 1st raid finder encounter, and as a main tank I did pretty well on Mogu's vault. Got myself some epics and just died once on Eragon's fight, in a biiiiiggg fallll...... (didn't knew the fight at all).

I'm actually hit / exp capped. Should I forget about this cap and go for full dodge mode.? would it help healers (i know it would.. but should I ?)
Take a look at TheeTova's stat weights posted on ElitistJerks a few weeks ago:

http://theetova.blogspot.ca/2012/10/guardian-stat-weights.html
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130960-feral_guardian_simple_questions_wol_feedback/

A bit of light reading completely changed my view of what our important stats are, and as such I've reforged/regemmed accordingly.

It all boils down to the new MoP changes that promote active mitigation. In order to use our active mitigation (Savage Defense, Frenzied Regen) we need Rage. Since we no longer generate Rage from taking damage and instead generate it through white hits and abilities (Mangle), DPS stats suddenly become our best friend (Crit/Hit+Exp/Haste). Generating more Rage overall will give you far better uptime on Savage Defense and far more healing from Frenzied Regen.

Now take into account the new Bear Form, which increases the amount of Crit and Haste you gain from rating by 50%, effectively increasing the value of these stats by half again as much.

The one thing I found while going through the math was

a. it takes so much agi (about 1200) to get 1% crit and 1% dodge
b. it takes so little crit rating (only ~380) to get 1% crit
c. as for mastery, it takes so much mastery rating (over 2000) to get 1% physical damage reduction

With all this and there being so much off stats on things like gems (plus getting 50% more from bear form) the off stats are just that much more desirable.

source: http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130960-feral_guardian_simple_questions_wol_feedback/#post2209492


I've tried this out and it works wonderfully. Not only will this stat setup increase your DPS output thereby helping your raid out, but I find that I mitigate damage far better with a near-constant 50% dodge buff on physical-damage fights and consistent 80k-90k self heals on heavy magic-damage fights. To me, this FAR outweighs the minor passive mitigation increases you'll get from reforging Dodge > Mastery > everything else. Instead of taking that measly 1% increase in armor or 2% increased Dodge, why not take an extra 10% crit?

Like any new thing, take this all with a grain of salt. It all boils down to what you feel most comfortable playing with, so experiment with it a little and run heroics and LFR to see how you like it. If you're anything like me you're sure to love it.
Stat "values" fluctuate wildly depending on your gear and the type/amount of damage you are taking. The only thing you can statically evalutate at this point is the amount of RPS you gain.

Your best bet is to understand what each of the stats does, and when to get more of them in relation to the content you're doing and how you play.

10/31/2012 03:34 PMPosted by Bootzilla
http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t130960-feral_guardian_simple_questions_wol_feedback/

That was done before Ptarr and I told him how to correctly evaluate Armor and Mastery.
Does it make a difference if you go crit vs mastery? I keep getting mixed information.
11/01/2012 10:20 AMPosted by Síeara
Does it make a difference if you go crit vs mastery? I keep getting mixed information.
Depends what you're referring to.

It makes a difference, yes. But whether or not it makes a difference to you is entirely dependant on how you feel for a given encounter.
Reading the post on elitestjerk, i got another question (and this comes from a noob)...

How do you calculate the amount of "DODGABLE DAMAGE"... it seems like mots of the calculation they do there comes from that number.
Do you mean "avoidable damage?" Avoidable damage comes from things like boss melee swings (white hits) and abilities. If it can be dodged, then it's avoidable damage.

Examples of unavoidable damage include raid-wide spell damage and bleed (Stone Guards) or DoT (Feng) effects. Ticks from bleeds and DoT effects can't be dodged, only the application of the bleed itself, depending on the mechanics of the encounter.

The problem, as I see it, is that Dodge and Mastery only provide passive mitigation against physical damage. For spell-damage heavy fights these stats become kind of worthless. They don't increase your Rage generation, they don't mitigate spell damage, and they scale so terribly (2000 something mastery for 1% armor bonus? vs 370ish crit for 1% crit) that every time I see them on my gear I get kind of sick.
11/02/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Ravenshield
How do you calculate the amount of "DODGABLE DAMAGE"... it seems like mots of the calculation they do there comes from that number.

Look at combat logs.

11/02/2012 03:19 PMPosted by Bootzilla
(2000 something mastery for 1% armor bonus? vs 370ish crit for 1% crit)
Uhhhhh no?

Each 1 point of Mastery is 1.25% armor. 1 point of Mastery is 600 Mastery Rating. So it's 480 Mastery Rating per 1% increase, compared to 400 Crit Rating per 1% Crit (including the Bear bonus).
Uhhhhh no?

Each 1 point of Mastery is 1.25% armor. 1 point of Mastery is 600 Mastery Rating. So it's 480 Mastery Rating per 1% increase


He meant as in 1% increase to damage reduction from armor. As it 80k armor has a like 63% damage reduction. 2000 master would increase the armor to xxK for a 64% damage reduction...
11/02/2012 09:25 PMPosted by Bamflnater
He meant as in 1% increase to damage reduction from armor. As it 80k armor has a like 63% damage reduction. 2000 master would increase the armor to xxK for a 64% damage reduction...
Too bad that's not how damage reduction increases from Armor actually work.
11/03/2012 12:35 AMPosted by Arielle
He meant as in 1% increase to damage reduction from armor. As it 80k armor has a like 63% damage reduction. 2000 master would increase the armor to xxK for a 64% damage reduction...
Too bad that's not how damage reduction increases from Armor actually work.


Since I obviously have no clue what I'm talking about, would you mind enlightening me? Everywhere I look I'm bombarded with information that tells me Mastery sucks because of the negligible armor increase, and I'm having difficulty finding anything to the contrary.

Perhaps you could include some of this information in an advanced section of your tanking guide?
11/03/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Bootzilla
Since I obviously have no clue what I'm talking about, would you mind enlightening me?
http://druid.wikispaces.com/Druid_Game_Mechanics

Scroll down to the section on "Armor". The absolute numbers and formulae are out of date, but the concept is exactly the same.

11/03/2012 09:28 AMPosted by Bootzilla
Perhaps you could include some of this information in an advanced section of your tanking guide?

It's a general combat mechanic that is not specific to Guardians. I'll bug Waniou to add it to his combat mechanics thread in the Tanking forums.

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