hmm?

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11/05/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Zarhym


Except it is overwhelming. Every day I don't finish all of my dailies, I feel like I've missed out. That I'm now behind where I could be. And how do I catch up? I don't. I'll never catch up, I'll always be behind. This puts an overwhelming burden on completing every daily every day. And each day I don't meet these goals set by the game, it's demotivating. Why keep trying since I'll never catch up?

My valor is capped for the week, my charms are capped for the next several weeks, and every post I make or read I'm feeling more and more behind schedule. But I've fallen so far behind now, that I don't want to try and catch up.

Just like with all other games I play, I don't choose to measure how my time is spent in the game -- or whether or not I'm enjoying it -- against the players in STARS, Vodka, Blood Legion, or any of the other hardcore guilds out there, or the people who can devote hours upon hours more time to this game than me.

I don't think you should either. Sure, I know people have commitments to friends and guilds. There are social expectations and demands put on players to be at a certain progression point, or completing X/Y/Z every week in order to be included in raids.

If the goal is to be entertained by playing a game and you're not meeting that goal, it's totally fair to reassess things -- whether that means looking at what kind of stresses you impose on yourself, who you're playing with, what you're doing with your time in the game, and maybe even your time spent with the game itself.

But, from your post, it sounds like the pressure you feel comes from within. And I honestly have to wonder why. I don't mean to be a downer, but you'll likely never be on the cutting edge of clearing content as soon as it's possible to do so. And by the way, these endgame progression systems weren't modeled around that being the assumed standard way the general population plays the game. Spoiler: It's not how the general population plays the game.

Leading up to Mists, we talked a lot about having as many options as possible for players to play how they want to. That means you have a lot of choices, and some of them will provide you with extra advantages in other pieces of content (bonus rolls, VP loot from factions, etc.). Regardless of your opinion on our delivery, I think it's fair to say we really did give people a lot of choices. But if the standard mentality is, "I must do ALL THE THINGS if I can," rather than, "I must do all the things I find fun that will progress my character, time permitting" you'll surely feel overwhelmed.


The biggest problem i have come across lately is that i WANT to raid in normal and heroic modes and i AM WILLING to grind the dailies but i just don't have the time in my schedule for that much grinding anymore, it gets pretty daunting.

I have time to get on and run about one set of dailies and maybe a dungeon or two but that's all, I like raiding progressively and working as hard as i can to maximize dps and i like working to get there, it does feel good to taste the fruits of your labor but i can't achieve them anymore because I am limited to how much i can actually work towards it.

Is there no way to grind rep a certain way (say by chain dungeons) and be rewarded with gear that is on par but no as on par as gear that is rewarded from rep grinding dailies? That way the players who want to work as hard as they can do get recognition and don't feel like the game is being diluted for people who are less willing to work. At the same time people in my situation are where they need to be, but to an extent where they as a player can shine through and display their abilities. And someone who is just lazy and doesn't want to work will only get what they work for.
On a vaguely relevant side note:

LFR is the most painful and excruciating version of raiding currently in game. Something about LFR that stems from the faceroll that was DS bled into Mists of Pandaria and somehow causes people to completely ignore mechanics, instructions, and everything else.
well I wouldnt say everywhere, but at least i did find one and know what they look like now :) Thanks!
You are very welcome =)
11/05/2012 09:00 PMPosted by Cloudzen
Regardless of your opinion on our delivery, I think it's fair to say we really did give people a lot of choices. But if the standard mentality is, "I must do ALL THE THINGS if I can," rather than, "I must do all the things I find fun that will progress my character, time permitting" you'll surely feel overwhelmed.


To some degree I have to fully disagree. You gave players the "choice" to sit on gated content no matter what they want to do.

-Professions were very easy to hit cap with, way too easy imo, and then you locked the higher-quality recipes/patterns behind rep gates. No rare recipes to farm without doing dailies.

-Few ways to get valor, yes, but we can't spend it unless we grind rep through gated dailies which force us to stop playing. We can only progress as much as YOU allow us.

-Valor buff is awesome but then now your alts have to run the same dailies... the cycle continues.

When you break it down, everything is funneled through the daily cap and I think it's not so much that we have to 'grind' for our items (because it doesn't feel like a grind at all to be honest) but the fact that blizzard is now dictating when and what we can play.

I would rather take my time running 10k dungeon runs to get the rep and items I need, feeling I am progressing with each run (plus the chance for drops is always a nice incentive) and also - DUNGEONS ARE FUN - than to log in, complete my dailies in an hour and then go "oh, I guess I am waiting until tomorrow."

Every expansion has introduced more and more gating, daily caps, and 24 hour cooldowns. It feels like you're telling me when I can play and I don't like it at all.


Mind blown... and perfect description of how I feel as well.
It is kind of anoying haveing over 1000 good coins taking up your inventory space, they should really make it a currency or somthing, because I've been out of bag space since mop hit, just gatta wait for a tailor to hit exalted with the august celestials i guess.

Blizzard needs to accept that that is how a very large parentage of players are going to feel then, regardless of their intents, and work to make sure that those players are not overburdened by what blizzard provides even with the best of intentions. No amount of saying dailies aren't required for raids is going to change the fact that most of us will find that they are very much a requirement with the way things are currently set up, and maybe blizzard should make some changes to make sure that we don't feel QUITE so negatively about a system that was supposed to be a positive.


Hey, I mean, I get what you're saying. Trust me. It's just that, regardless of what large percentage of players truly and honestly feel like they're forced to do all this stuff, those players are still misunderstanding the way the systems are designed. And Blizzard can't really correct that for them. People barely even bother to read quest text, they're certainly not going to read a comprehensive explanation of why certain progression paths (i.e. dailies) are not necessary for raid success.

If a player's personality drives him/her to find every edge in raiding (or PvP, or whatever), that player is going to use every method of progression whether there are 3 sources of upgrades or 50 sources of upgrades. This is why players who hate LFR still run LFR as soon as they hit 90. This is why people who are legitimately and honestly sick of dailies still do a full slate on every alt. Because the option is there, and they take every bite of the apple that they can.

Blizzard has tried a myriad of ways, to put it crudely, of saving players from themselves. They had a cap on daily quests once. They had a limit of one rep-rewarding heroic per dungeon per day once. Those things are gone now, and Blizzard had reasons for moving the game forward, and that's fine.
11/05/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Zarhym
Is the only way to get the Elder Charm Coins is by doing dailys by getting 90 of the good coins and turning them into 3 elder...? that sort of forces u into dailys if so.. because u know people want that extra chance in Raid to get the gear so your know there going do dailys to get a silly coin that doesnt even help one bit gg..

"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O


Just saying, I love that guy, thank you Dev team.
On a vaguely relevant side note:

LFR is the most painful and excruciating version of raiding currently in game. Something about LFR that stems from the faceroll that was DS bled into Mists of Pandaria and somehow causes people to completely ignore mechanics, instructions, and everything else.


Seemed okay for me last week. Had maybe 3 people die on Elegon that was it.
11/05/2012 09:03 PMPosted by Arkthan
And spare me the "upgrade your gear with valor" talking point cause we don't even know for sure that a) its going to actually go live with 5.1, b) if it does we don't know whats required to access it and c) even if there's no unlock required that doesn't address the issue of profession recipes.


Its going to be in 5.1. It was ready at launch but was held back. There will be a consortium guy who does it, probably in the same room as the void bank guy. Profession recipes are for completionists. Not gaining access to them doesnt hurt you since the items are boe and can be bought from someone who does like dailies.


And yet your response does nothing to address my lack of desire to play my alts.

I am unable to advance my alts because I cannot stomach the daily grind again after doing it on my main. Check my reps you'll see I am no slouch or lazy layabout.

I just CAN'T go through it again I can't.

And if an alternative isn't provided other than dailies than I am almost done with MoP and Blizz loses my money. I don't want to unsub. I want to play. But I can't play if there is nothing that I want to do. And I wont pay if I can't play.
11/05/2012 09:21 PMPosted by Kyriani
I am unable to advance my alts because I cannot stomach the daily grind again after doing it on my main. Check my reps you'll see I am no slouch or lazy layabout.


Then don't do them. It's an alt. You can just get them heroic gear then go into LFR. Done.
11/05/2012 09:00 PMPosted by Lohfal
Dailies are currently ESSENTIAL for many of us to be able to do what we actually want to do. In order to raid properly, we MUST do dailies. The problem is that they have absolutely nothing to do with raiding in any form except by their rewards. They should be a completely separate aspect of the game but they are being too heavily tied together with raiding. Let the dailies exist for rewards that do NOT tie directly to raiding or PvP (EG mounts, tabards, xmogs etc), and no one will feel like they have to complete them.


Wrong.

If you "need" the VP purples to do raids, then your raid group isn't ontop of their game.

Normal Raid is supposed to be do-able with full 463.

If you're still having trouble, do LFR too.

You don't "need" those VP purples to raid.


Not everyone has the same level of skill. Add to that the way that certain specs perform well on certain fights and not on others it is maddening to the raid and the person to say that I'm sorry guys I'd have better gear if I could play another x hours everyday. I know it can be done with less, but its hard to make that a point for saying don't concern yourself with being passionate about improving in any way you can. "just go get my groceries for the next 5 weeks and then I'll let you have what you want."
Coming home and finding this thread was probably the best possible way for my day to end.

lol

Thank you, Zar.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but maybe Blizzard can consider adding an option to gain rep through tabards as after hitting revered with a faction, or allow tabards to achieve rep until a certain maximum (Friendly 5999/6000) while having dailies being available as a reputation gain from XXX-Exalted.

This will prevent players from relying solely on tabards to gain reputation, but will give them an alternate option to gaining reputation. I prefer the latter, since tabards provide an almost effortless way to gain reputation and influence diligence and dedication/commitment to truly cap out at exalted.
People complain about lack of content.

Look at all the dailies. Do a set or two of dailies each day, run a few dungeons, maybe a raid, and that's quite a few hours. Keep the dailies down to a couple sets, and you can easily get your 90 weekly coins and have enough content to last you a couple months. Add in other things like pet battles and that's a ton more.
11/05/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
Leading up to Mists, we talked a lot about having as many options as possible for players to play how they want to. That means you have a lot of choices, and some of them will provide you with extra advantages in other pieces of content (bonus rolls, VP loot from factions, etc.). Regardless of your opinion on our delivery, I think it's fair to say we really did give people a lot of choices. But if the standard mentality is, "I must do ALL THE THINGS if I can," rather than, "I must do all the things I find fun that will progress my character, time permitting" you'll surely feel overwhelmed.


The problem is all these "options" lead to roads gated by reputation requirements.

Heroic dungeons cap at 463 gear, beyond a dungeon set, with no way to spend valor, the incentive vanishes. Scenarios are in the same boat. Sure its easy breezy valor, but once you hit 3000 valor its all dressed up and nowhere to go. This is the first xpac where dungeons have no role in reputations. Which would be much more bearable were it not for the above.

Meanwhile the rewards for dailies are almost OP in regards to how much they give. Gold, valor, charms, and rep. Everything is so leveraged towards dailies to any non PvP playstyle. And yet somehow asking for something commensurate in dungeons or scenarios is double dipping?

Grand scheme... I would love to be able to "slow down" as my Pandaren friends say, but the option really isn't there to even just do enough dailies to get to 90 lesser charms a week and not end up rendering the rest of my playstyle meaningless. Therein lies the problem for those of us who relish dungeon runs and group content in general.
11/05/2012 09:25 PMPosted by Mylene
Leading up to Mists, we talked a lot about having as many options as possible for players to play how they want to. That means you have a lot of choices, and some of them will provide you with extra advantages in other pieces of content (bonus rolls, VP loot from factions, etc.). Regardless of your opinion on our delivery, I think it's fair to say we really did give people a lot of choices. But if the standard mentality is, "I must do ALL THE THINGS if I can," rather than, "I must do all the things I find fun that will progress my character, time permitting" you'll surely feel overwhelmed.


The problem is all these "options" lead to roads gated by reputation requirements.

Heroic dungeons cap at 463 gear, beyond a dungeon set, with no way to spend valor, the incentive vanishes. Scenarios are in the same boat. Sure its easy breezy valor, but once you hit 3000 valor its all dressed up and nowhere to go. This is the first xpac where dungeons have no role in reputations. Which would be much more bearable were it not for the above.

Meanwhile the rewards for dailies are almost OP in regards to how much they give. Gold, valor, charms, and rep. Everything is so leveraged towards dailies to any non PvP playstyle. And yet somehow asking for something commensurate in dungeons or scenarios is double dipping?

Grand scheme... I would love to be able to "slow down" as my Pandaren friends say, but the option really isn't there to just do enough dailies to get to 90 lesser charms a week and not end up rendering the rest of my playstyle meaningless. Therein lies the problem for those of us who relish dungeon runs and group content in general.


Dailies don't reward 463 Pre-raiding gear.

Then don't do them. It's an alt. You can just get them heroic gear then go into LFR. Done.


I do think the issue for some people is not having access to crafting patterns, Rose. I can see how that would feel awful on multiple alts. But, with that said, wanting all the crafting pattens on alts (or even just wanting the Rep epics) is a personal player preference. It should be fairly clear to someone seeking particular rewards what the effort required to get that reward is.

Also, this system isn't really something new. Thorium Brotherhood? Yeah.

I actually understand if someone quits the game because they wanted X rate of progression with Y time investment and Blizzard offered something less appealing to them. What I don't understand is people convincing themselves that their individual preferences had nothing to do with that disjoint.
Coin system is fine imho. There was no precedent set beforehand as the coins are new to this expansion. Plus the amount of time needed to get them is pretty minimal. It's always good to have different methods to gain rewards though.

which brings me to...

There is only one option to getting rep. Dailies. Repetitive solo content is not why I play this game. I do not find dailies fun, challenging or interesting. Yes I preferred dungeon grinding. I enjoy group content and seeing what my character can do in 5 mans while gaining rep is infinitely more interesting to ME than repeating daily quests over and over.

Due to my disdain for dailies my progression with rep is quite slow. Since my guild is getting into HoF now, the valor gear will be redundant anyway. I fail to understand why gating valor gear in this way even made it past the concept stage. It's beyond backward. that's a whole other can of worms though...

The point is, Blizzard speaks of options when in fact there is but one option. All people want is for you to live up and give us these mythical options you keep talking about.

Oh and please stop saying "you don't have to do them". That's absolutely a cop out response and any remotely serious raider knows it. I have to be suboptimal simply because the only option you gave us sucks... No thanks. I'll trudge through this for a while longer but I'm eagerly awaiting these "options"...
11/05/2012 09:22 PMPosted by Rosenivy
I am unable to advance my alts because I cannot stomach the daily grind again after doing it on my main. Check my reps you'll see I am no slouch or lazy layabout.


Then don't do them. It's an alt. You can just get them heroic gear then go into LFR. Done.


Exactly, since when are alts given the main treatment and needs BiS for every item? If my memory of how the general population plays remains true, it's just gathered up enough ilvl, go LFR and store it in the fridge till next week.

If it's an alt you really like (like your ex-main that you put aside for the raid team), I can understand the sentiment. Or you want to be self-sufficient with enchanting/tailoring and want those recipes, then you have to put in the grind.

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