hmm?

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As someone who used to raid super hard core, there was something that was touched on here, but deserves a bit of expanding. If players are talking about competitiveness then SKILL has been, and will always be the biggest determinant.

Players often hold up gear as their limiting factor, but that's rarely it unless you're on top of your game. If you want to see the most improvement then learn or master your rotation for that 5%-30% DPS increase, rather than always focusing on that 1%-5% theoretical max increase you get from a new piece of gear.

For those really interested in improving check out websites like EJ and the many others like it out there to learn your class/spec really well. Then when you have a decent idea and have spent some time playing/grappling with that knowledge use tools like World of Logs and Raidbots Epeen bot yo compare where you fall among your spec on a fight by fight basis.
Just saying, I was one the side that didn't look forward to MOP "wrecking the game" because I felt it was going to become more of a handout factory and completely remove any semblance of dedication to your character's progression. My friends all quit in protest of pandas, but I had a little faith and wanted to see for myself.

I was totally wrong in my initial assessment, and believe this is possibly the best expansion release effort since TBC. They've gone back to their roots - making a game for actual gamers. You have an incredible array of options in this expansion, and like 90% of them completely tick off the non-gamers because everything gets in the way of the way they want or perceive the game to be. I've even considered buying copies of the xpac for my friends for Xmas, just so they can see that it's not the boring "raid, do dungeons, get loot" mill it became in Cata.

Please continue releasing content like this, it's most appreciated and reminds me of the good ol' days more.
"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O


Don't know why anyone is down on Z. He assessed the meaning of OP's post and asked him if the summary was correct.

Grinding dailies is another issue which to me is for gaining rep. I never think about the coins stacking up or how/where/when I'm going to use an Elder Charm for a bonus roll.
The coins are double reward for doing the dailies. They don't mean much to me since the only place I can use them is on a boss roll.

The Ancient Guo-Lai Cache Key which drops in your bag from kills during Golden Lotus dailes is useful and immediately rewards something. I received a Scroll of Wisdom from the box I found on my druid.
Just to throw this out there....buuuuut...

What was the thought process behind having Lesser Charm of Good Fortune *only* coming from daily quests? Furthermore, what was the thinking behind having such an exceedingly low cap on the elder charms?
I don't remember anyone QQing this hard when BC was released and you had to get revered with each rep to get keys to do heroic modes. It was just part of the game. Now everyone wants to have it their way. THIS AIN'T BURGER KING. Do the dailies or don't do them. Play the game or don't play it. But seriously the crying must stop. The player base is sinking into a deep muddy hole.
Why can't we just go back to BC and have dungeons give certain reps regardless? You don't even need a tabard for that, you already pigeon whole me into doing golden lotus until revered if I want something from another rep that you deny me access to with your system.

There was dailies and then there was rep grinding in specific dungeons for specific rep. By all means, keep the dailies but don't force me to do them for rep. I mean, they don't even allows you to choose which rep to grind until you grind Golden Lotus and that right there is my biggest problem. I only wanted to grind rep with shado-pan and august celestials on this alt but blizzard forced me into 1-2 weeks of golden lotus dailies before I was allowed to do anything else.
Yea bro, why can't we just have free chance to loot extra gear 3 times a week, without working for it! UGH I can't STAND not getting everything I want :(

No one makes you do dailies champ, you want tokens to roll on more gear, do a few MINDLESS dailies, get your 3 tokens, down bosses. No one has forced anyone to do anything. Let's be honest dailies sucked in the beginning trying to grind rep for good gear and a decent ilvl, but really? If you have time to post on the forums, read all of the responses, argue with a CM, you literally could have already done enough dailies for 4 days.
Iz wants extra stuffs, buts iz dont wants to work for its. Good summary, imo.

Dailies arent that bad. You dont have to do all of them everyday, or any of them for that matter.

My complaint is the opposite: i have like 300 or so lesser charms just sitting in my bank. I wish i could doing something with them besides waiting each week for the turn in quest. For example how about turning X amount for orbs of mystery. Those things are expensive!


I am gonna go out on a limb and say people feel the same way with valor who don't have the time everyday to grind rep vs the time 1 day a week to grind dungeons.

I am nearly exalted with all the factions, I would have done the dailies, ONCE (on my main only) anyways for achievements, recipes, vanity items, mounts and the exalted final quest rewards, and yes even the lesser tokens.......but the instant you attached valor gear to reputation is where you shot yourself in the foot, the majority of valor gear is better itemized to me than anything from the first 1.5 raids, and valor gear is about 20 item levels higher than anything from heroics.

You really can't say you didn't expect to force people through the content if you kept valor reputation requirements, because at some point every person trying to upgrade gear and become an asset to any group, whether it be raiding/heroics/challenge modes, literally anything PvE oriented will have to buckle down and complete at least reputations to revered simply to use their currency.

The absolute only complaint I have with the system is leaving valor gear gated behind rep, it isn't necessary there is plenty of other reasons to do the reputations, and it frees up the oppurtunity for people to run Heroics/LFR/normal Raiding for valor they can actually spend without necessitating dedicated time every single day (just because i log in everyday for 1-2 hours doesn't mean someone who logs in for 10 hours 1 time a week deserves to be punished) its inevitably the same time played, its just you gave higher benefits to playing solo and more often than the opposite extreme you had in Cataclysm where if you didn't happen to have time you could choose to grind everything in a day.

It is a catch 22, I realize no one will ultimately be happy, but the grind fest of dailies is exactly that, its unforgiving and merciless, and the way to actually make it a pure choice vs an eventual forced circumstance is to simply remove valor reputation requirements.....

Valor is still capped at 1k per week, the cheapest item costs 1250, the most expensive ones costing 2250, on average it still requires 2-3 weeks per upgrade basically, so why would you need to gate it in the first place??? it isn't for pacing obviously, so you did it to force people into what you deem the appropriate way to gear.

I haven't even really begun to level my other 8 85's to 90, since I realize I will literally have almost nothing desirable to do other than be forced back into dailies (its honestly insanity if you think I want to spend another month doing dailies when I did them for 1.5 months on my main......I don't and won't regrind reputations unless its passively gained through Raids (such as karazhan/firelands etc), effectively all you have done is stop me from spending more time playing (the opposite effect you desired), when all you need to do is remove the valor gear from reputation requirements and walla, people can level and play alts again freely, people can choose the way they gain valor (and guess what even USE IT) as should be the intention.

If you intend on people doing dailies to get valor gear, then remove valor gains from raids/scenarios/heroics, and replace them with something else, otherwise your simply being oxymoronic and screaming this idea of 'Choices' down our throat while you cover you ears.

Its frankly childish the way the CM's are starting to become so derisive over this issue, valor gear is gated by weekly cap it in no way should be gated by daily reputations, its completely detrimental, it merely gives off the 'facade' of choice without truly allowing it.

This comes from an achievement addict, masochism and unhealthy playing to spend the time to get exalted (nearing exalted with every faction) I am in no way full on casual, and I still agree with how 'forced' it really is, whether the development team wants to admit it or not, blizzard is being entirely childish and antagonistic at this point.
11/06/2012 09:12 AMPosted by Woodbooger
Why can't we just go back to BC and have dungeons give certain reps regardless? You don't even need a tabard for that, you already pigeon whole me into doing golden lotus until revered if I want something from another rep that you deny me access to with your system.


Because they want you out in the world, not in a 5man.
11/06/2012 09:06 AMPosted by Natasmi
PUT IN WORK FOR ONCE, THERES NO WELFARE IN WOW.


Doing dailies is work but doing dungeons for rep is not? What logic is that.

I am doing my dailies as I don't particularly dislike them, but I don't get this entitled attitude of the pro-daily crowd. What they love to do is work while what the dungeon lovers/daily haters love to do is just meh.

11/06/2012 09:15 AMPosted by Infernalist
Why can't we just go back to BC and have dungeons give certain reps regardless? You don't even need a tabard for that, you already pigeon whole me into doing golden lotus until revered if I want something from another rep that you deny me access to with your system.


Because they want you out in the world, not in a 5man.


I just hope that it doesn't leave a lot of people to leave the world of warcraft itself. Forcing people to do what they don't want to do on something as essential as gearing up is a risky strategy. We will see if it pays dividends or not.
11/05/2012 09:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
The whole "coin" thing is fine but I know have 274 lesser charm of good fortune and 9 elder charm of good fortune! WTH am I gonna do with all these lesser ones? Can't trade them in, not yet geared enough for raids(spending way too much time doing dailies with no time left for heroics!)!!!! So what good are they other then taking up space(2slots) in my bag?!?!?!

Lesser Charms are being moved out of your bags and turned into a currency in 5.1. Think a little further down the road when you're not doing dailies as often and you're raiding more. A stockpile of Lesser Charms is absolutely what you'll want. ;)


Exactly, i've been doing atleast shado pan, august celestial, the klaxxi and golden lotus every day(except now that i'm exalted with klaxxi i don't do them anymore. I still mostly do lotus for the satchel even though i'm exalted cause you can get skyshards from them.)and most of the time tillers. So as of now i'm sitting on like 1400 of the lesser charms. Do the math..thats almost 16 weeks of turn ins. Roughly 4 months of not having to do dailies for turn ins and i'm not even done with dailies yet so i'll have even more than that by the time i'm exalted with celestials and shado pan.

You are one of most consistently rude and condescending CM's. What shocks me is how unprofessional your replies are to players who, while not as articulate as you, wish to raise concerns in the official forums.
I don't agree with OP, but your post and many others like it are way out of line and below the standard that players and blizzard expects of it's employees


Zarhym should have his posts read by someone else before he posts. Blizz should not let someone from their organization post snarky snide comments to players ie customers. Very poor customer service response.


Get over yourselves. This is a forum to discuss a video game, not a brokerage help line. It's not a customer service response, this isn't the customer service forum. It's a forum for discussion of game issues. If you want customer service then go to the Customer Service forum.
I just want to say to the person who started this threads defense everyone is using the same free loot arguement. He wasn't asking for any more free loot then blizzard already provides. He just was asking for a way to obtain elder tokens without doing dailies. If you guys don't agree that the dailies get old real fast then you must be the most easily entertained person out there. I think blizzard should either add other methods of receiving the tokens or if nothing can be agreed on just take them out of the game.
*wow creates trollmore new server for all complainers* problem solved
11/06/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Bubbleøseven
I don't remember anyone QQing this hard when BC was released and you had to get revered with each rep to get keys to do heroic modes. It was just part of the game. Now everyone wants to have it their way. THIS AIN'T BURGER KING. Do the dailies or don't do them. Play the game or don't play it. But seriously the crying must stop. The player base is sinking into a deep muddy hole.


There is, in many cases, no real path to play the game without dailies. In the case of a dungeon rat - grind to full dungeon set, hit 3k valor cap, and then what? If your computer has issues supporting LFR, as some people I know have had, its basically dailies or GTFO.
This is a dumb thread obviously no one will agree to the point of it not being an issue, there are two sides to this and two options. On the one side people who like them and support them, the other ofc is those who don't.

The two ways to deal with it are do them or don;t do them like what was said earlier. I come from a pvp server so I plan on not doing crap for the reps and getting pvp points instead. There are always other things to do in this game and complaining about it without providing proper facts/backups to your opinions or comments just means people will come on here and flame you...because that's what the WoW community is now a days, a bunch of whining little babies who come on here and be rude to each other because they are weak Irl.

So save yourself some headaches and just play the way you want and screw all the other things you don;t like.
11/06/2012 09:15 AMPosted by Infernalist
Why can't we just go back to BC and have dungeons give certain reps regardless? You don't even need a tabard for that, you already pigeon whole me into doing golden lotus until revered if I want something from another rep that you deny me access to with your system.


Because they want you out in the world, not in a 5man.


More to the point, they feel that 5-mans already provide rewards, and that getting reputation in addition is 'double-dipping'. Not sure I completely agree, but that is their argument.
11/06/2012 09:11 AMPosted by Bubbleøseven
Play the game or don't play it. But seriously the crying must stop. The player base is sinking into a deep muddy hole.


I hope all this CRZ and daily QQ destroys this community completely. Blizz deserves it. They did more to hurt this community this expac then ever before.

CRZ and dailies make ally hate ally and horde hate horde. There is not love in the field. Mob tag, node stealing. W/e enjoy your epeen mount when there is no one around to stoke it for you.

*give us dungeon rep or a tabard
*remove VP gear from rep grinds
* ungate shado pan and AC to ease the bottleneck that is GL

pick one!!
i knoww right. i think im up to 30 coins, and i have yet to get anything but gold...
Derp..


Really? The games only been out for more than a month. Basically its impossible for u to have 30 coins.
11/06/2012 09:15 AMPosted by Ecthrund
PUT IN WORK FOR ONCE, THERES NO WELFARE IN WOW.


Doing dailies is work but doing dungeons for rep is not? What logic is that.

I am doing my dailies as I don't particularly dislike them, but I don't get this entitled attitude of the pro-daily crowd. What they love to do is work while what the dungeon lovers/daily haters love to do is just meh.



Because they want you out in the world, not in a 5man.


I just hope that it doesn't leave a lot of people to leave the world of warcraft itself. Forcing people to do what they don't want to do on something as essential as gearing up is a risky strategy. We will see if it pays dividends or not.


Forcing people to Raid to get Raid gear is risky. People might stop playing.

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