The Blue Rogue: Official Class Changes/Notes

Rogue
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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6201371192

Oh look what I found


STALKER!


you made a lot of threads in beta >_> it's hard not to link one of yours

edit: forgot to say thanks to Rfeann for making this.
(PVP oriented post)
this is blizzard's thought process behind rogues for mop:

well we have rogues right now doing pretty well in pvp right now, albeit a bit overpowered. to balance them, let's just try and keep them right where they are at while taking a few things away too with our new talent system. then it should sort itself out.

you think im kidding, only i wish i was.

there are so many things about rogues that are just so outdated. so many things that other classes got better versions of:

-spectral guise/displacer beast in relation to a 3 min cd vanish
-die by the sword in relation to an unchanged evasion
-basically spammable faerie fire that lasts incredibly long while dispel recieved an 8 sec cd
-12 second charge in relation to a 24 sec step

to name a few

the other area where we are outdated is in how we apply burst. many other classes recieved upgrades to their burst in the form of short, quick instances where they can apply massive pressure. rogues can apply some massive pressure, but to do so it takes quite a lot of ramp up time due to multiple important 5pt finishers we need up, as well as shadow blades which requires a lot of uptime on a target for a substantial effect. given how squishy we are currently (literally getting 100-0 by mages and warriors in stuns), we cannot reliably stay out in the open and vulnerable long enough to actual perform our burst cds.
Two new tweets added to the top of the pile.

Ghostcrawler on making rogue stealth harder to break (11/21/2012) -- http://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/271389245829181442
  • @esbgame: “@Ghostcrawler Do you think abilities such as Destro Rain of Fire or Halo should break Rogue's stealth? And if so why? It's too easy to break”
  • @Ghostcrawler: “@esbgame I would love to see only Flare and a few others break stealth, but that's a potentially destabilizing change.”


Ghostcrawler clarifies “more responsive” poisons and Revealing Strike in 5.1 (11/21/2012) -- http://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/271388676171378688
  • @MegalonFaria: “@Ghostcrawler In 5.1 Killing Machine and other proccs will be "more responsive". What does it means?”
  • @Ghostcrawler: “@MegalonFaria instead of a 0.5 sec delay or so it should be less.”

I love that you're updating this. Thx.
Neat trick I learned to avoid AOE stealth breaks (Although it comes at a cost) CoS and you don't get hit by AOE so you can still open, throws people off, but then your CoS is down :/

Also, nanaya, is your name from blazblue? I just picked it up and saw the name and thought of you.
11/21/2012 06:28 PMPosted by Felt
Neat trick I learned to avoid AOE stealth breaks (Although it comes at a cost) CoS and you don't get hit by AOE so you can still open, throws people off, but then your CoS is down :/


Unpredictable AoE halo says hi =/ but yeah..it's nice if you can see it coming

11/21/2012 06:28 PMPosted by Felt
Also, nanaya, is your name from blazblue?


Huh. I've wanted to play Blazblue for a while but never got the chance, with no consoles. DIdn't know a character shared my name in that game. My name is actually from Tsukihime, though I didn't make my character anything like the namesake.
Two new roguely tweets from GC today (added to the top of the pile).

Ghostcrawler on giving pure DPS classes a tanking or healing spec (11/24/2012) -- https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/272428280299286528
  • @Eric91Wright: “@Ghostcrawler Have you ever considered changing a spec from a pure dps class to a tank/heal spec?
  • @Ghostcrawler: “@Eric91Wright yes, but I don't think every one of those pure players would like that (& you can't just say they can ignore the new roles).
  • @Narinedaria: “@Ghostcrawler @Eric91Wright With druids now having 4 specs to choose from, wouldn't it be possible to add them&not remove any specific spec?
  • @Ghostcrawler: “@Narinedaria Druids have always been hybrids though. Maybe a rogue doesn't want to have to be considered a tank.


Ghostcrawler on his anti-rogue bias (11/24/2012) -- https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/272426854823108608
  • @chrisL77: “@Ghostcrawler everyone says u are biased against rogues care to confirm or deny? Not like the overflow of info is compelling”
  • @Ghostcrawler: “@chrisL77 what do you think I stand to benefit by class bias? What do you think I stand to lose?”


Also, an earlier tweet thread was continued with a new comment from GC on the current state of rogue PvE/PvP; nothing he hasn't already said, though:

Ghostcrawler doesn't like whiners, notes state of rogue PvE/PvP (11/20 and 11/25/2012) -- https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/270985940128894977
  • @jamesfromvenice: "@Ghostcrawler What do you think of ROGUE SURVIVAL? Plez no canned repsonses. Imho, CD's R outdated/ineffectual. Easy to bait em', then dead"
  • @jamesfromvenice: "@Ghostcrawler PLAY a rogue in arena & bgs. You have no idea the lack of mobility, Survival. So frustrating. It really is. Its not fun at all"
  • @Ghostcrawler: "@jamesfromvenice it sounds like you don't really want my opinion, just a list of upcoming buffs."
  • @lmaoshane: @Ghostcrawler Are you looking at buffing Rogues though? Because as it is, they've fallen behind in dps AND survivability in most areas now.
  • @Ghostcrawler: @lmaoshane rogues are fine in PvE. We want small buffs for PvP.
He was responding specifically to a person tweeting that rogues have fallen behind in DPS and survivability "in most areas."

You can disagree with the way a person is designing the game (and our class in particular), that's totally cool. But please don't wish for those people to get hit by large automobiles. Or anything that'll cause them physical harm. Even as a joke. It's not cool.
They dont really play wow...

You think a bunch of late 30's early 40's aged money making family men play wow?
They may, but i bet they are dragon slaying PVE heroes with no real knowledge of PVP.

They get their estimates and statistics based on Numbers and running Parsers.

Blizzard.. bring back Rock>Scissor>Paper

or..

Equalize self heal abilities among DPS
Equalize CC and Defensive abilities among DPS
OK, look, buddypalsuperfriends. I realize it can be frustrating when rogues aren't fun to play, or when you see changes being made to the class that don't match the changes you think need to be made to make the class better.

But I didn't create this thread as a new portal to Random Whining Land. You're not helping anyone when you lash out with "devs clearly don't play our class" or "all they care about is making money, not whether we have fun" knee-jerk statements. If anything, you just make *yourself* look worse, because you're not actually saying anything useful. You're just adding to negativity and making baseless insults.

If, despite all that, you still feel the need to spew, please do it in another thread. Thanks!
(10/24/2012) @Ghostcrawler: "@zakkar484 I read the role and PvP forums regularly. Feedback is always valuable. It just doesn't always result in immediate change."


(11/12/2012) @JustinShamoun: "@Ghostcrawler have you even been to the rogue forums? HUNDREDS of well thought out posts. Do something about it. No PvP rogues enjoy playing"
@Ghostcrawler: "@JustinShamoun I don't frequent the class forums personally. Too much echo chamber effect and any class who disagrees gets shouted down."


(11/17/2012)@srzbznz: "@Ghostcrawler @JamesWire1 You 'fear'....? You 'FEAR'? Perhaps if your team listened to feedback sooner you would have 'KNOWN'."
‏@Ghostcrawler: "@srzbznz if we listened to all feed, mages would have 1 mil dps by now. It's listening to the right feed. Know solve for that? Let us know!"


I don't really care if I ever get a blue post on the rogue forums but it would be nice if the devs could read the feedback and decide for themselves what's a good idea and what isn't. It sounds like they aren't.

11/14/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Rfeann
@Ghostcrawler: "@SamSykesSwears We like the rogue rotation. We wanted monks to feel different and they do."


I'm pretty sure he didn't typo when he said the rogue rotation. As in 3 specs, 1 rotation. That bugs me a lot.

Edit: I'm not up in arms, but that was upsetting to read.
I'm more playing devil's advocate here than anything else -- I don't know GC's mind any more than anyone else does, but I like trying to see alternate explanations for things. But my read of "we like the rogue rotation" was more a reference to how rogues' rotation systems work in general. Every spec has always had a rotation -- for as long as I can remember, at least. The entire idea of a "rotation" is one of the things that define rogues. I think that was more what he was getting at, not trying to implicitly state that he felt there was a single rotation across all three specs.

Now I feel pretty weird having just dedicated a whole paragraph to interpreting a single word in a tweet. :)

On the "devs should read our feedback" thing -- I disagree. I don't think devs should be prowling through the class forums and wasting their time trying to sift through all the poop we fling around in here. I think forumgoers come up with some really cool and clever ideas for our class, but I don't think it's the developers' job to hunt for it. It's their job to develop the game.

If anything, it's the Community Managers' job to get the temperature of the players who post to the forums, and to pass along especially thought-provoking ideas, concerns, feelings, etc., in the meetings they have with the developers. But even they aren't somehow required to do so, and I don't expect them to. We play the game, but they make it. They're not obligated to do anything but keep making it the way they feel it should be made.
I get the sense you're speaking mostly from a PvP standpoint, ya? Ghostly Strike and Riposte were never particularly fun talents from a raiding standpoint. :)

11/26/2012 06:58 AMPosted by Mafic
we are diehards that remain really

I don't think of myself as a diehard. I think of myself as just a guy who plays WoW, and who spends most of his online time playing a rogue because he likes the playstyle. It's gonna take a lot more than rogues being undertuned in PvP for two months or the general feeling that the class hasn't gotten any crazy new fun things to play with to make me stop playing a class I fundamentally enjoy playing.
I'm cautiously optimistic because devs (GC in particular) is/has been saying they recognize rogues need a buff, and I can understand wanting to wait and see how the 5.1 changes to particular classes and burstiness plays out before doing so.

With the tool kit rogues have I think most of us can agree that it's a fine line to go from balanced to over powered, so yeah.. they've gotta be kind of careful while still making sure what they do actually fixes the problems (example: reduced cooldown on sprint that was reverted. This wasn't necessary, that's not what the problem was, we all knew this).

Basically if you give rogues an inch it's very possible they'll be able to take a mile, you know?

That being said sometimes I'm still kind of bitter that just about every single issue with the class was reported in Beta but it never got looked into :|
Post #3 is now updated with a full compilation of rogue-relevant official patch notes and hotfixes.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006348053?page=1#3
Might compile these more effectively a little later, but we've got early anecdotal (i.e., unconfirmed) reports coming in of the following:

-- Poisons not proccing properly with some abilities (including Mutilate, FoK); Bug Report forum thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200082052

-- Dancing Steel enchant now breaks stealth when it procs

-- Dancing Steel proc can no longer be active on two weapons at once; each new proc simply refreshes the duration of the existing one (this one may well be intended)
Small undocumented QoL change. Cheat Death now has a debuff attached so you know its CD.

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