How to help pvp be fun again.

Arenas
11/19/2012 03:05 PMPosted by Stumpette
tell us more, Mr. never been over 1600 on any character guy.


hahaha, this arrogant child again... runs broken classes and whacks off to his semi-good ratings.

incoming slur about my monk not having a 2k team. so ill go ahead and let you know now i had a 5s called channel 4 newsteam that was 15 points from glad season 1, season 3 i had my warlock on a 2400 5s (same team as previously mentioned) and my resto druid on a 2500 2s with a warrior named Danku, and some point in lich king i had a 2200 3s on my ret. these are roughly the only season's i played arenas. now you can call me a liar and try to slander me, but i dont go on every arena forums and go around talking about how good i am on my toons with their 2200 ratings in arenas that are clearly unbalanced, and you clearly have taken full advantage of the unbalance.... shaman warrior hunter??? cool wins bro please tell me your other currently op classes and comps youre running with!!!
OMG. LOL, how bout this... ADAPT and overcome.

inbe4 'of course mage blah'

but no - really - adapt... and overcome.... guess what, i usually get 2350 with ease, and have gotten 2500+ beat, beat rank 1 teams etc. Guess what, the game changed a bit so you guys have to adapt and play with no error.

The skill cap of the game went down a great deal, you can't outplay people like you could before... so adapt and pop c/ds at the right now, and d up better, cc better (you have plenty of CC EVERYONE).

The game has changed. I need to fix my !@#$ too because i'm having trouble right now and i know why. You guys are just liek coming on the boards %^-*!ing... LOL PATHETIC.
11/19/2012 03:02 PMPosted by Faetalis
wow different thread same annoying shaman relying on name calling and insulting. But on topic healers and casters need to start using mana, they just make games last forver. Some of the instant CC needs to be toned down a lot. And they need to break CD stacking in pvp, i understand its not going to happen in raids but maybe in pvp.


He's actually right in his previous posts. The game gets dumbed down a lot for casual people yet you still see these posts saying that X class is overpowered because it beat me. The game does need some tweaks but it's hardly in a state of insane imbalance that people like to believe.
I am a relatively newcomer to the PvP focus (so take it for what it's worth).

One of the biggest draws for me at this point, though, is the intensity... this intensity is dependent on having CC and "clutch" ways to break out and exercise your reaction time.

I agree that taking away CC / CC-breakers would make PvP very boring "stand-and-shoot".
What next? take away the pillars in Nagrand arena?... heck, lets make ALL arena's a small square with nothing to LoS behind while we are at it.

I do think that there needs to be some tweaks to get more "other" classes/specs in to the PvP scene. I certainly agree that there is potentially an issue when almost all arena healers are Shaman.
11/19/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Bellathissa
Eight. Make casters use mana again all of them make healing constantly without drinking run you out of mana regardless of gear. Make dps casters rely on casted spells for damage. Stop giving instant cast abilities chances to proc other super high damage spells. Bring replenishment back for raiding to help counter this.


This oh mah gah this.

At this point there's no advantage to being melee, other than warriors who are just way over tuned, seeing as casters

1. Never run out of mana
2. Rarely have to cast
3. More tanky then most melee (warriors excluded)
4. Do more damage (Once again excluding warriors)


He should have typed "mages" there. Their blue bar never moves. This is a problem.
/Signed
11/19/2012 02:14 PMPosted by Harland
I think the only class specs that even need to watch mana are Disc and Arcane.


Aff/Demo still need to lifetap quite a bit.
people are mis-understanding the concepts this guy is asking for..

let me translate this into a simple form.
he would like pvp to be based more on skill than macros. healers should not have infinite mana, nor should casters. there was a point in this game when CC seemed more balanced and games werent won on chain cc or blanket silences mixed with burst macros. burst macros will always exist but they need to be toned down some, every class has a macro they push that sets off 3 abilities or more along with a blanket silence. i would love is poly had the hp increase removed from it and put on a 15 second cooldown. cyclone given a cooldown. these abilities should not be chainable with this much damage coming out of players. only healers with particular skills to avoid cc keep their teammates up aka shamans, pallys, druids. disc and monk are just thrown to the side with our inability to burst heal and monks have awful cc defense, its called a trinket and its all we get to break it. i honestly like this game alot more when if you played a 2v2 with healer/dps vs healer/dps it was a battle of maintaining mana rather than trying to figure out a way to kill the shaman because he isnt losing mana at all and im bleeding it non stop.

what ever just my opinion. not that blizzard reads their own forums anyway to bless me with a reply. tell me to adapt to my poor class choice that has .2% representation in higher bracket arenas and the ones there were carried by extremely skilled players/classes
people are mis-understanding the concepts this guy is asking for..

let me translate this into a simple form.
he would like pvp to be based more on skill than macros. healers should not have infinite mana, nor should casters. there was a point in this game when CC seemed more balanced and games werent won on chain cc or blanket silences mixed with burst macros. burst macros will always exist but they need to be toned down some, every class has a macro they push that sets off 3 abilities or more along with a blanket silence. i would love is poly had the hp increase removed from it and put on a 15 second cooldown. cyclone given a cooldown. these abilities should not be chainable with this much damage coming out of players. only healers with particular skills to avoid cc keep their teammates up aka shamans, pallys, druids. disc and monk are just thrown to the side with our inability to burst heal and monks have awful cc defense, its called a trinket and its all we get to break it. i honestly like this game alot more when if you played a 2v2 with healer/dps vs healer/dps it was a battle of maintaining mana rather than trying to figure out a way to kill the shaman because he isnt losing mana at all and im bleeding it non stop.

what ever just my opinion. not that blizzard reads their own forums anyway to bless me with a reply. tell me to adapt to my poor class choice that has .2% representation in higher bracket arenas and the ones there were carried by extremely skilled players/classes


PvP is only "based on macros" if you and your team are absolute trash. It's been weeks since I have been or I have seen my warrior "ZOMGGLOBAL PWNZERS" anyone. Infact, most of the time we see a warrior go super saiyin we CC him til his cooldowns on are. You know. Intelligent gameplay? Why are people so quick to come to the forums and whine that things aren't like the "good ol days when things were balanced by 71% of teams over 2,000 were RMP/WLD totally balanced right?!" instead of just devoting that time and attention to, oh I don't know, adapting and learning how to play the game. "High end arena players" don't whine about burst, go to arena junkies or something and read or talk to someone who is actually good at the game. The CC is annoying but the logic is pretty simple: if every class has CC, yours does too. You and your TEAM MATES (that's right, team work. Give it a shot) should be about to CC and counterburn etc etc, I don't think CC is a problem.

Monks though got a pretty bad rap. I think they were trying so hard not to repeat the mistakes of season 5 deathknight that they ended up releasing monks as a super inferior class.

And what is this whole "healers never go OOM OMG :(" thing I'm hearing? Are you KIDDING? I see healers go OOM all the time in games, I even go OOM/get low on mana in a couple of games, though if a healer is going OOM that means his team is taking a ton of damage and not CCing, which is a death sentence these days anyways.
well im looking at this from my particular classes point of view, but their are still alot of obvious imbalances going unchanged in the patch that i wish blizzard would atleast acknowledge.
11/19/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Bellathissa
Eight. Make casters use mana again all of them make healing constantly without drinking run you out of mana regardless of gear. Make dps casters rely on casted spells for damage. Stop giving instant cast abilities chances to proc other super high damage spells. Bring replenishment back for raiding to help counter this.


This oh mah gah this.

At this point there's no advantage to being melee, other than warriors who are just way over tuned, seeing as casters

1. Never run out of mana
2. Rarely have to cast
3. More tanky then most melee (warriors excluded)
4. Do more damage (Once again excluding warriors)


This is true, casters in TBC and WOTLK went OOM from damage so if the melee team (and their healer) did damage and out lasted they won. Now casters never go oom, healers can heal on oom, casters have several 'save my !@#' cooldowns that are unneccessary, never even have to cast and have several stuns.

Back when mages were first made in vanilla they relied on snaring their targets or just doing super high damage (as fire or arcane POM PYRO). They also had sheep and counterspell but they never got a stun. In fact, as far as I can remember no caster had a stun.

The closest thing to a stun was death coil. Paladins had a stun if i remember right, warriors had charge stun and rogues had their stunlock. Other than that you didn't sit in constant stuns. Now in MOP and to a lesser extent CATA every single class has a stun (except shamans in cata. And hunters too outside of BM.)

Melee relied on their 'forever energy'. Hybrid relied on their off-heals and self heals and casters relied on their ability to kite or to be sortve tanky with self-heals (warlocks).

I understand nobody enjoys going OOM and dying because of it. The problem is now the best melee specs CANNOT be peeled/kited and the best casters CANNOT go oom.
I get the feeling blizzard is waiting for the general complaining public to get more PvP gear and to play after the mage/warrior/hunter nerfs go live before they pull out the nerf guns. I can personally say that the more epic PvP gear me and my teammates got across all my arena teams, games last longer, CC chains aren't as devastating, and frankly it's a lot more fun. I enjoy it a lot now, I run comps these days just because they seem fun, thanks to the fact most classes are viable in some spec or another. I start playing ret/feral/resto shaman tomorrow just to test out and see if it's good against MLS and to have fun! In the past, it was unheard of, but now almost anything can be viable played well. I think it's just wonderful.
11/19/2012 01:21 AMPosted by Wutangrza
This is a really bad suggestion. I'm not being a troll, but you should retitle this thread "how to make PvP fun at 1400 rating because I don't want to improve my game".


/agree

what does an 85 lock really know about 90 pvp anyway?
but no - really - adapt... and overcome.... guess what, i usually get 2350 with ease, and have gotten 2500+ beat, beat rank 1 teams etc. Guess what, the game changed a bit so you guys have to adapt and play with no error.


It's easy to adapt and over come when you have the burst to global someone, 2 resets and some of the best CC and utility in the game.
11/19/2012 08:38 PMPosted by Okay
I understand nobody enjoys going OOM and dying because of it. The problem is now the best melee specs CANNOT be peeled/kited and the best casters CANNOT go oom


Well and that's another problem, melee classes have to use their resources effectively. Breaks in their damage when they can't do anything due to lack of resources happen quite often. It used to be that 'cast times make up for this, giving ranged classes down time as well' but ranged classes don't effing cast anymore so they have no down time and no resource management to really worry about.
Mages manage shatters.
Shadowpriests manage shadow orbs.
Warlocks manage demonic fury/soul stones/burning embers
Moonkins manage lunar cycles
Elemental shaman.... LOL elemental shaman.

no resource management to really worry about.



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