Was the purpose of ToW

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It's important to remember that Golden (or any other writer Blizz uses) is on a tight leash. They are not free to write up a story to the best of their talents, they must conform broadly with the Plan.

I think Golden is pretty good, myself. She delivered the story she had to deliver for the purposes that Blizz wants. Blizz wanted to heat up the faction conflict. Mission accomplished. (If they had to assassinate Garrosh's character in the process, well, so be it.)

And I have to believe that Irvine signed off on Jaina + Kalecgos. They wanted this. If they didn't, it wouldn't have been in the book.
11/18/2012 03:42 PMPosted by Lorthuron
If you were saying Golden is too strict on classes(Warriors mages etc) that's a fair complaint and I understand. It's not that I love Troll lore, it's just the new writer to the WoW universe is heading this so...I can't wait to read it.


I was, and I didn't know it was new writer. I'm now doubly interested.
If you were saying Golden is too strict on classes(Warriors mages etc) that's a fair complaint and I understand. It's not that I love Troll lore, it's just the new writer to the WoW universe is heading this so...I can't wait to read it.


I was, and I didn't know it was new writer. I'm now doubly interested.


He wrote some of the EU Starwars novels and other franchise I can't think of atm. This writer is not new to writing but new to Azeroth so to speak :-P
11/18/2012 03:46 PMPosted by Lorthuron


I was, and I didn't know it was new writer. I'm now doubly interested.


He wrote some of the EU Starwars novels and other franchise I can't think of atm. This writer is not new to writing but new to Azeroth so to speak :-P


Well, I meant to the WoW story, not to writing itself.
Michael Stackpole if you want to look him up. I read some short stories by him and they give me hope.


The Alliance is a bunch of pussies who couldn't beat the Horde straight up when their very best were there, and can't stand against the Horde in a meaningful way unless they have some sort of macguffin (Focusing Iris, Goldrinn's Blessing, etc) giving them a power boost.


Technically, the ALliance won the battle of Theramore.

The mana bomb was thrown afterwards.
Yeah, like Resileaf says. Both sides got a macguffin here. (The same one even!)
Jaina freaking Proudmoore doesn't hold Theramore against the Horde. What right does ANY member of the Alliance have to when SHE doesn't?


...Wha?

It didn't heat up the faction conflict. It was just bad, and entirely about stomping on both factions, albeit in different ways.


Now you're in denial. Of course it heated up the conflict, it was meant to. Honestly gathering from here and general discussion and even in lore it did it's job.

The Alliance is a bunch of pussies who couldn't beat the Horde straight up when their very best were there, and can't stand against the Horde in a meaningful way unless they have some sort of macguffin (Focusing Iris, Goldrinn's Blessing, etc) giving them a power boost.


Now you're borderline ranting, take it easy. I don't like Goldrinn blessing either but take it easy.

For the Horde, if you support Garrosh, you're a !@#$ (not joking, Golden actually compared Garrosh to Hitler), and if you don't, you're a spineless coward like Baine.


Well Garrosh is pretty close to it so it's not like it's a bad thing. It's just being truthful, as for the Baine part that's something the story forums perpatrated.
Technically, the Alliance won the battle of Theramore.

The mana bomb was thrown afterwards.


Actually, as I recall, it was a stalemate.

11/18/2012 04:16 PMPosted by Thorm
you're a spineless coward like Baine.


Except Baine isn't a spineless coward. He fought and fought well when he was called, however, he didn't want to be there because it was pointless and he saw the futility of it, so he didn't want to waste his people's live in a conflict that didn't need to happen. Yes, caring about your people makes you a spineless coward.
Technically, the Alliance won the battle of Theramore.

The mana bomb was thrown afterwards.


Actually, as I recall, it was a stalemate.


Nah. The Alliance defended the walls of Theramore, and Garrosh retreated because if he pushed any further, he'd be beyond the point of no return and be cut off from his main troops. That's definitely a victory for the defenders if the attackers run away.

Its not a decisive victory, but its a victory.


Actually, as I recall, it was a stalemate.


Nah. The Alliance defended the walls of Theramore, and Garrosh retreated because if he pushed any further, he'd be beyond the point of no return and be cut off from his main troops. That's definitely a victory for the defenders if the attackers run away.


They were regrouping to reattack, that's not a victory. A battle isn't just a few minutes long, it's hours and days long. And the only reason why they were forced to retreat is because they had a dragon on their side - a macguffin, as you call it.
It was a clear allied victory right until the bomb dropped. The Horde suffered disproportionate losses and Theramore retained free sea lines of communication and could be reinforced at will.

Baine and Vol'jin were furious at the loss of life for no purpose.


Nah. The Alliance defended the walls of Theramore, and Garrosh retreated because if he pushed any further, he'd be beyond the point of no return and be cut off from his main troops. That's definitely a victory for the defenders if the attackers run away.


They were regrouping to reattack, that's not a victory. A battle isn't just a few minutes long, it's hours and days long. And the only reason why they were forced to retreat is because they had a dragon on their side - a macguffin, as you call it.


Regrouping to reattack isn't true, because he never had any intention of attacking again. Not only that, but it didn't matter how many times he came back, the Alliance had the upper hand. Superior defenders, better preparation, better everything. The assault on Theramore was a complete failure, and without the mana bomb, would have remained so.

Also, battles don't always last that long. Many battles in history have been finished in a matter of minutes. Perhaps you mean that sieges are not concluded in a matter of minutes, but this isn't a normal siege. Garrosh didn't have the means to break the walls or take advantage of any weakness. He just sent his troops against the doors, and just happened to have a double-agent already sabotaging the defenses, without which nothing would have been done.

I will also mention that I did not call anything MacGuffin. I don't even know what that means, except that it makes me want to eat muffins.
Macguffin is a fancy technical term for deus ex machina. And yes, muffins are good.

Also, battles don't always last that long. Many battles in history have been finished in a matter of minutes. Perhaps you mean that sieges are not concluded in a matter of minutes, but this isn't a normal siege. Garrosh didn't have the means to break the walls or take advantage of any weakness. He just sent his troops against the doors, and just happened to have a double-agent already sabotaging the defenses, without which nothing would have been done.


The Dark Shamans could have steamrolled over Theramore's defenses in a true Siege scenario. As far as the alliance knew this was a true siege and they were preparing for the next wave. They won the day not the battle.

Also, battles don't always last that long. Many battles in history have been finished in a matter of minutes. Perhaps you mean that sieges are not concluded in a matter of minutes, but this isn't a normal siege. Garrosh didn't have the means to break the walls or take advantage of any weakness. He just sent his troops against the doors, and just happened to have a double-agent already sabotaging the defenses, without which nothing would have been done.


The Dark Shamans could have steamrolled over Theramore's defenses in a true Siege scenario. As far as the alliance knew this was a true siege and they were preparing for the next wave. They won the day not the battle.


The alliance had the magical chops to trump the Dark Shamans and shut them down. I see your shammies and raise you a Kalecgos, a Jaina, and various and sundry Dalaran mages. No contest at all.

It was the mana bomb that decided things for the horde, and only the mana bomb. Otherwise this siege was going nowhere.


The Dark Shamans could have steamrolled over Theramore's defenses in a true Siege scenario. As far as the alliance knew this was a true siege and they were preparing for the next wave. They won the day not the battle.


The alliance had the magical chops to trump the Dark Shamans and shut them down. I see your shammies and raise you a Kalecgos, a Jaina, and various and sundry Dalaran mages. No contest at all.

It was the Stolen and Artifact empowered mana bomb that decided things for the horde, and only the Stolen Artifact that empowered mana bomb. Otherwise this siege was going nowhere.


Fixed

Also, battles don't always last that long. Many battles in history have been finished in a matter of minutes. Perhaps you mean that sieges are not concluded in a matter of minutes, but this isn't a normal siege. Garrosh didn't have the means to break the walls or take advantage of any weakness. He just sent his troops against the doors, and just happened to have a double-agent already sabotaging the defenses, without which nothing would have been done.


The Dark Shamans could have steamrolled over Theramore's defenses in a true Siege scenario. As far as the alliance knew this was a true siege and they were preparing for the next wave. They won the day not the battle.


Its easy to say that the Dark shamans could have steamrolled over them, but the fact of the matter is that they didn't. In fact, I do think I recall that they were stopped by the Alliance's own shamans or mages in most cases. They took Northwatch, a lightly defended and badly damaged keep easily, but there is no proof that they would have been as successful against Theramore's walls.

If they could have been, Garrosh would have had them summon their molten giants again. But he didn't, and he lost the battle.
The alliance had the magical chops to trump the Dark Shamans and shut them down. I see your shammies and raise you a Kalecgos, a Jaina, and various and sundry Dalaran mages. No contest at all.

It was the mana bomb that decided things for the horde, and only the mana bomb. Otherwise this siege was going nowhere.


If the mana bomb doesn't consititue a clear Horde victory, then why should the outside help the Alliance receive count for them? You're arguing double standards.
11/18/2012 04:57 PMPosted by Resileaf
he lost the battle.


I'm sorry, but could you please point out Theramore on a map of Kalimdor, to me, please?

What you guys are arguing is like arguing that the U.S.A didn't decisively win the war in the Pacific Theatre in 1945.

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