Please help fix affliction for pvp

Warlock
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First of all, this is not a thread to complain or whine. It is intended to improve the overall experience for both warlocks and other classes as it relates to pvp. Please keep the discussion related to the topic at hand, and focus on providing solutions and ideas rather than flaming and crying. Additionally, I want to thank blizzard for their willingness to correct and amend the situation regarding the mmr exploit. All of us who play this game for pvp do greatly appreciate how the season will now not be lost due to the mmr exploit.

Now, on to the matter at hand. Affliction in this expansion in its current state is totally unplayable. It simply lacks the necessary tools in order to exist as a competitive spec in pvp. If I could give an analogy to describe what I mean, I would say affliction is something along the lines of bringing a bat to a gun fight. There are quite a few problems which cause this, and I will do my best to go through them all.

Problem 1: Dispel protection- This above all else is the single most important thing with this spec, and it absolutely must be fixed. Affliction has always been renowned for its hardy dispel protection via Unstable Affliction. The spec is designed to do damage over time to multiple targets. Instead of focusing on doing massive damage to a single target, we attack many. Currently if a healer should dispel UA they will be silenced for 4 seconds, and take an amazing 38k damage if it crits. With people having nearly 400k hp, there is literally no reason to not dispel UA along with all the other warlock dots.

This is the common scenario that completely cripples affliction: Taking aside interrupts and pushback, the lock spends 1.5 seconds casting UA, then spends 3 more seconds applying corruption and agony (each instant dot has 1.5 sec gcd). It has been a total of 6 seconds and maybe UA ticked once for 2500 damage. All the dots are up and the healer dispels all of them with one button. The healer took at most 38k damage and his team is under no pressure at all because the warlock is not providing any damage. Regardless of the damage the dots do (we will get to that later), it doesnt matter if they dont ever get to tick. Some will argue that with dispels having an 8 sec cd, there is no reason to have any dispel protection. Well, when your entire spec is based around doing damage over 20-30 seconds with magic debuffs, I would have to say that I along with all other locks greatly and vehemently disagree with that argument. If the dots are never there we simply can’t do anything. Imagine if dispels forced a warrior to drop his 2 hand weapon for 6 seconds. Would we tell the warrior to learn to play, or to maximize that 2 second window? Even if he could do amazing damage (which we dont) in a 2 second window, it still wouldn't be fair.

Solution: UA dispel should deal damage that consistently does at least 120k damage along with its normal silence effect. Then and only then, will healers have to actually think about dispelling all our dots. If they took this kind of damage, they could potentially expose themselves to a venerable level of health. This is what dispel protection should do. It should force a healer to HAVE to think before dispelling. Without threatening damage upon dispel, no healer will ever have to think about it.

Problem 2: Affliction damage is severely lackluster- I understand that in pve affliction dps is quite good. In fact it’s one of the best specs possible among all classes. I won’t even attempt to say something along the lines of requesting a flat damage increase because doing so would make affliction in pve totally OP. Having said that, what must happen is affliction damage must go up in pvp if we are going to be able to compete. First of all, dots on targets that have neither haunt nor malefic grasp, take literally no damage. UA and corruption each tick for around 2500 and agony ticks for around 1200. These numbers are unfortunately almost identical to Cata numbers. With hp pools where they are now, and more importantly the damage other classes deal, this kind of damage is utterly worthless. Furthermore, if I do get haunt on a target and channel malefic grasp, at best the damage is moderate. In pvp it is wholly impossible to stand still and channel a spell over and over into a target. Not only would you die because your aren’t kiting, but you could never position yourself properly to control the outcome of a game. Even if we could stand still and cast MG, we still can’t generate enough pressure to scare even a lvl 85 healer. The damage Affliction does in pve must be reworked so pvp dmg is acceptable. We don’t want to one shot people with dots, but we do want to be able to pressure people properly.

Solution: Change malefic grasp to cause the each tick of MG to cause all dots on the target to deal damage equal to 10% (down from 50%) of their normal damage. Transfer the dps loss of that change back into UA, corruption and agony. Change haunt to provide a 10% (down from 20%) damage increase to the target and put that dps loss back into our dots. Make Grim of Sac to boost only fel flame, doomguard, and drain soul damage for affliction and transfer that dps loss into our dots. Change soulburn soulswapped dots to inflict only 50% of their normal damage when done to players, their pets, and minions (we don’t want locks instant dotting- we should be casting). These are just a few suggestions that will go a long long way in helping our pvp damage. Again, I want to clarify that I don’t want pve dps to go down or up. Just transfer the pve dmg that isn’t an option in pvp and put it into our dots.

Problem 3: There is no health return- There is absolutely no health return with the spec. We cant use drain life now because its far less dps then MG, there is no heal tied to corruption damage, and there is no longer a heal associated with haunt. We do damage and when we need resources to do more damage we have to life tap. Other classes don’t have to sacrifice health to generate resources so it makes sense that they wouldn’t need some sort of selfheal component. However that is not the case for us. We should be generating some sort of hp through our spells so that we don’t kill ourselves completely while we do damage.

The 2 healing spells we have been given are fel regeneration and glyph of healthstone. However, these tools were given to us along with unending resolve because they took away our passive defense of soul link and demon armor. We really need to either have drain life as our main filler (which would require buffing its damage) or we need to heal via our damage in some way.

Solution: Since haunt now costs a soul shard (and we are usually very low or out of shards), it should also provide us with a heal of like 30-50k. The glyph of siphon life should be baked into the spec and it should provide a heal of like 40% of the damage done by corruption instead of its current 20% (even if corruption got buffed it wouldn’t be much of a heal). The idea is to regenerate some health so we don’t completely kill ourselves when life tapping. I would prefer to see drain life usable in pvp for damage but I doubt that will happen since Malefic grasp was added in mop. Cata lock self healing (after the fel armor change) wasn’t in anyway OP. Nobody complained about it, and nobody cared that we were able to regen a little bit of our life through our spells. Show me a class that uses their hp for resource regen, and I will gladly endorse them having some kind of self healing mechanic (not too much).

These 3 areas I believe must be addressed in a serious way if affliction is going to make a comeback. I can live with no longer having soul link or demon armor. I cant live with having no dispel protection and not being able to do damage. If you fix just a few things with affliction locks, you must fix the dispel protection and our damage. IT HAS TO BE BOTH. Even if our dots do stick, they still need to do real damage, or it’s meaningless. It is imperative both elements are fixed.

I would also like to mention that Blood Fear is ridiculously overpowered. You really need to remove this talent and replace it. Both demo and destro locks will cease to exist if that is done. Everyone is tired of these 2 specs one shotting people, and they only exist because of blood fear. Please make us cast fear again by removing blood fear.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

right now the Metagame is burst, affliction really has no place in arenas, its damage is actually pretty good but the style of play the team would have to adjust to is impractical this season due to every other class playstyle.
i cant agree more... i am an old school afflic !@#$% and miss bein a dot distributer... but i tried afflic with crit and ill have to say it was pretty good..lol
11/20/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Brodizzlex
I would also like to mention that Blood Fear is ridiculously overpowered. You really need to remove this talent and replace it. Both demo and destro locks will cease to exist if that is done. Everyone is tired of these 2 specs one shotting people, and they only exist because of blood fear. Please make us cast fear again by removing blood fear.


You think blood fear is what makes demo and destro viable?

Edit: It also sounds like you're just trying to be spiteful. "Make demo and destro bad so everyone can play my favorite spec." Is what I read.

You think blood fear is what makes demo and destro viable?

Edit: It also sounds like you're just trying to be spiteful. "Make demo and destro bad so everyone can play my favorite spec." Is what I read.


I have nothing against those 2 specs being enjoyed by other warlocks. I know those 2 specs rely on getting a healers trinket via blood fear. They then are free to fully blood fear the healer after dr and use their one shot macros on whoever. If blood fear was removed, those specs could still attempt to do what they do, they just wouldnt get the healers trinkets without having to try.
Signed.
11/20/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Rhoenin
I would also like to mention that Blood Fear is ridiculously overpowered. You really need to remove this talent and replace it. Both demo and destro locks will cease to exist if that is done. Everyone is tired of these 2 specs one shotting people, and they only exist because of blood fear. Please make us cast fear again by removing blood fear.


You think blood fear is what makes demo and destro viable?

Edit: It also sounds like you're just trying to be spiteful. "Make demo and destro bad so everyone can play my favorite spec." Is what I read.

What makes Demo the best spec right now is somewhat correlated to Blood Fear, but we cannot forget: 25% MS via Wrathguard, Imps, two Portals (one in Demo form and one in Caster) and as said one-shot gibs.

I support this thread and you, Brodizzle. Bring back Affliction PvP.
i didnt lvl my lock up because afflic wasnt viable.

although i did lvl my rogue up, they are also complete unviable arena classes/specs.

make that 2 classes that i currently have completely garbage. i can just lvl my lock and play demo/destro but i dont feel like playing those specs. also, why bring a rogue when you can bring a warrior and swifty 1 shot everything? it makes 0 sense. especially when the top oriental teams at the blizzcon world finals with rogues in it went 0-9 and 2-7. if that doesnt say something then idk what will.

somethings need to be done quick, not 5 weeks later in a big main patch, that doesnt encompass all of the problems. as i recall there was a dc bug in s11 all season and it was removed with the release of mop.
The problem with nerfing MG and Haunt and buffing DoTs is that it'll make Afflic ridiculous on multi-DoT fights.

I feel like their design philosophy for afflic this expac has kind of forced them into a corner as far as PVP balance goes; there's not really a way to buff it in PVP without either greatly affecting it in PVE or giving the entire spec the Colossus Smash treatment.
There's no point in "Fixing" Afflic in PvP, with as bursty as arena is right now affliction has little place in arena until other classes are toned down.

11/20/2012 01:31 PMPosted by Brodizzlex
Everyone is tired of these 2 specs one shotting people


It only one shots people in the 1500 bracket that dont know when to pop defensives or Dispel demon soul, no need to spout false information just to get affliction buffed.

To be quite honest affliction in cata took almost the same or even less skill then Demo/Destro currently. With the buffs your suggesting it would be even worse, all while breaking affliction in PvE
I agree with most of your ideas, except for the haunt heal. I feel warlock survivability right now is really good with sacrificial pact and glyph of healthstone.

Because of soulburn: soulswap, warlock overall damage at the end of the game is actually really good, maybe the best in the game.T he problem though lies with healers being nearly UNABLE to run out of mana in 3v3 Arena unless forced to actually cast big healing spells very often to heal burst damage. Affliction has never been about burst, more about spreading dots and controlling the other team while they rot and forcing healers to use mana to keep their team up. The problem with this concept in the current state of the game is that almost any healer can use a single instant cast healing spell or HoT to completely negate spread pressure from a full row of DoTs. If the healer is lucky and gets a crit heal, they can top someone from 50% in 1 global, instantly relieving all the pressure you spent 15+ seconds generating.

As of right now, although extremely unrewarding and ineffective, keeping dots up on 2 or 3 targets is extremely easy via Soulburn: Soul swap. Affliction damage needs to be changed from the current model (Using Soulburn: Soulswap to get DoTs up instantly, then spamming Malefic Grasp to do noticeable damage) to HARDCASTING unstable affliction for dot protection and using malefic grasp when the extra damage is needed. Damage should be shifted away from spamming malefic grasp and torward the DoTs themselves. Keeping up the Haunt debuff with the state of healer dispel and chain casting malefic grasp with the amount of interrupts and instant crowd control in the game is impractical if not impossible in an Arena PvP setting. Unstable affliction dispel damage needs to be buffed as well. A 35k damage penalty and 4 second silence for dispelling our main source of damage is nothing, especially compared to what other classes can do on demand. Instant fear is probably the dumbest ability ever implemented, and needs to be removed from the game. We are a spell caster class, we should be REWARDED for casting, not running around using game-changing instant casts with little-to-no cooldown.

Affliction has 2 sources of burst right now: Demon Soul, and haunt. Demon soul is on a 2 minute cooldown and can be spam dispelled by 5 of the 11 classes. Haunt can be dispelled, and requires a soul shard to be cast, so if you spam haunt into a target for burst you won't have any shards for a while for soul swap or to use haunt on another target. I think most classes would agree they would like to see damage in PvP shift away from cooldowns and 1-shot macros to being able to provide better consistent damage and pressure. Doing laughable damage for 75% of the game then randomly killing someone with all your cooldowns up is neither fun nor skillful.

Another disappointing thing about warlocks are the level 90 talents. They are extremely boring and uninteresting. We get to choose between a 5% damage taken thorns-like ability, 500% increased AOE range on damaging spells, and another talent that penalizes us for using it? I think EVERY OTHER CLASS gets to pick SUPER AWESOME abilities that COMPLETELY change how their class plays and feels.
I agree with brodizzle affliction needs major buffing. I enjoyed playing aff lock last expansion even through the bursty parts like RMP / KFC. Demo is REALLY OP atm but it's not fun at all, it's like the BM spec of a hunter atm. ( which MM does need major buffing too btw xD). I hope blizzard actually looks at this and considers messing with affliction damage a bit!
Affliction damage is fine outside of dispels, my absolute favorite idea for dispel protection is to make UA mana burn on dispel. They could remove the silence portion for all I care but it mana burning on dispel would be absolutely crippling to healers if they just dispelled on CD.

Why? because affliction is a pressure spec, and this further goes along with that pressure theme straining their mana pool so they can keep people up.

Something of that nature is all I see us needing offensively. Defensively we really do need something else, nothing game breaking but we really do need a lil more oomph in the self healing department.

In example I was running 2's with a druid a few weeks back and the rejuv I got from symbiosis pretty much felt like where I wanted to be self heals wise. It wasn't enough self healing to screw up the game but it was enough in conjunction with my other abilities to keep me alive in some hairy situations.
but i tried afflic with crit and ill have to say it was pretty good..lol


Wait, what?
Affliction damage is fine outside of dispels, my absolute favorite idea for dispel protection is to make UA mana burn on dispel. They could remove the silence portion for all I care but it mana burning on dispel would be absolutely crippling to healers if they just dispelled on CD.


Considering that they removed Mana Burn in 5.0, this is never happening.
support!
If you are referring to arena's I completely agree, and you have valid points.

However, I think Affliction is still strong in RBG's, the only major thing I would like to see if Soul Shard regeneration when out of combat increased. Maybe is just me, but it seems ungodly slow, If I don't manage to down a player with Drain Soul, then I would be lucky to get 1 shard between encounters.

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