This Actually Matters.

Wyrmrest Accord
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Backpedal harder please.
Sorry, but while I don't like roleplaying highly powerful characters till my character themselves is up in level, that's more of a personal choice, not based on what my character should be based on mechanics.

The biggest example of why using the abstract concept of levels as a gauge of power is silly and illogical is because the power scale is all over the place -anyway-. In Pandaria we fight level 85 and up Virmen. What makes them tougher than kobolds really? They're still dealt with by farmers and peasants, and Pandaria, so sorry to everybody who thinks it's super badass, hasn't seen war in ten thousand years. The only badasses on the continent are the Shado-Pan and the Golden Lotus respectively. A Virmen and A Kobold are similar threats, so why can a level 85 fight them and not a level 50? Because of arbitrary selection. That's why. they are arbitrarily in a higher level zone and therefore arbitrarily stronger. What makes a standard wolf in Northrend stronger than a powerful armored wrath-demon in BC aside from the arbitrary necessity to populate Northrend with more dangerous creatures for loot? Nothing.

We could even go on to higher level threats like black dragons. I killed Onyxia at 60, pummeled her into the ground and ended her. Is she weaker than Valiona? Who says? Under what lore justification besides being set in an earlier expansion?

Hell, Van Cleef? You remember him? Edwin Van Cleef? He is doubtless considered in lore, or was, to be one of the most feared and deadly assassins in the world, standing toe to toe with Matthias Shaw before he founded the Defias. Yet he's defeated by a group that you would consider easily defeated by your character. Again, what's the justification besides the arbitrary decision to make him a level 20 boss? If you can come up with one, I'd love to hear it.

Now is it cool that your level 90 character that you've pumped a ton of work into gets trashed by a level 20? Of course not. It's upsetting to you that somebody just comes out of the blue and thrashes you. There's no real justification for you being stronger than that guy, not from a lore perspective really, but from an "I have spent tons of time on this character" perspective, absolutely. Which is why I follow these simple guidelines.

1- Don't start problems and expect people to be okay with you winning till you're level 80.
2- Always be polite and courteous OOC to people you're fighting, try and reach a consensus about the fight OOC.
3- Don't RP that your character is unstoppable. This isn't good RP at any level. Not even raid bosses dodge everything. If you're RPing as powerful, recognize that other people may be RPing as powerful characters too and respect it.
4- Don't RP fight with people you don't know. Just don't. It's a dumb idea.
CAN'T YOU SEE THIS FIGHTING IS TEARING US APART?!
It was not as much as what you said, but what you implied.

You implied that trashy dressed women want to be hit on. So you also implied that if she doesn't want to be hit on, she shouldn't be dressed like that.

And then we enter into sexism, the right of people dressing however they want, what is and what isn't sexual aggression and whatever.

It's a thing that has been going in the world since after the start of the slutwalk.
"From the way she was dressed, she was asking for it" is a rather common excuse used by people who are trying to justify sexual harassment of women.

Even if it was a joke (which looks doubtful) it was an incredibly tasteless, inapropriate, and downright not-funny one.
Boy, this thread surely escalated quickly.
Undesirable attention can frequently lead to assault, yes. Your view that there was no coercion, IC or otherwise, doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Joking about @%%!@!%# is not as hep as you think it is, Zulatal.


It wasn't there. Her character was cuddling up to mine and nuzzling his big troll nose (Not a euphamism). If that was sexual assault, then I have -no- idea how flirting should happen, because there was the normal elements...Girly giggles...compliments...Cuddling up close...Nuzzling.

Did you gloss over my post, Zulatal? I'm honestly curious how you would reconcile a situation like I brought up, considering it's not at all unique.


Sorry, so much hate, so little time (and I'm at work). Responding now.

that from levels 1-40, she would have just forgotten how to use heavy plate armor, even though it is what she had done for literally hundreds of years back on Draenor?


I get what you're saying, I do, and it makes sense. Another person brought up the 'What if my character was a war vet' example. But if you went along with your example of 'She's been in training for centuries', how much would it kill you to say she's still in training from levels 1-90? It would set the theme for your character for what you're already doing by playing the game: Making your toon better/faster/harder/stronger.

Maybe your character can't wear plate from 1-40 because they're not used to Azerothian plate (As opposed to what she's used to, which is crafted by her native people). But by even that standard? She's at a disadvantage to my character who has levelled to 90 and has proof that he's use to Azerothian armor.

There's ways to justify -everything-, except level. Because here's the thing. The moment I /duel you, and your character hacks and slashes at my dodging toon, and likely dies to my [Swift Reflexes] passive, it's hard to justify your character as beating mine.
12/03/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Kalad
Boy, this thread surely escalated quickly.


He was totally joking, you guys. Can't you tell by his use of italics and the winky face?
12/03/2012 12:38 PMPosted by Zulatal
She wouldn't have dressed like that if she didn't want it.


If I don't see Enekie in this thread shortly I am going to be all of the mad.
12/03/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Zulatal
The moment I /duel you, and your character hacks and slashes at my dodging toon, and likely dies to my [Swift Reflexes] passive, it's hard to justify your character as beating mine.


I'm guessing you try to solve all your conflicts with duels then. I'm sorry, after reading page 2 and this comment, I just can't you serious anymore.

I'm out.
12/03/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Yezian
The moment I /duel you, and your character hacks and slashes at my dodging toon, and likely dies to my [Swift Reflexes] passive, it's hard to justify your character as beating mine.


I'm guessing you try to solve all your conflicts with duels then. I'm sorry, after reading page 2 and this comment, I just can't you serious anymore.

I'm out.


Resolving hostile environments set in a war torn era with fighting? Stupid.

Roleplaying actions out? Perfectly logical.
I get what you're saying, I do, and it makes sense. Another person brought up the 'What if my character was a war vet' example. But if you went along with your example of 'She's been in training for centuries', how much would it kill you to say she's still in training from levels 1-90? It would set the theme for your character for what you're already doing by playing the game: Making your toon better/faster/harder/stronger.

Maybe your character can't wear plate from 1-40 because they're not used to Azerothian plate (As opposed to what she's used to, which is crafted by her native people). But by even that standard? She's at a disadvantage to my character who has levelled to 90 and has proof that he's use to Azerothian armor.

There's ways to justify -everything-, except level. Because here's the thing. The moment I /duel you, and your character hacks and slashes at my dodging toon, and likely dies to my [Swift Reflexes] passive, it's hard to justify your character as beating mine.


I still disagree with this premise, because what you're doing is completely devaluing anything my character has done before coming to Azeroth. You have to come up with frankly rather unlikely explanations to get around the fact that my character has been doing what she does for a very long time. Why are Azerothian metals any better than anything else? We go to Draenor from levels ~60-70, so it stands to reason that what you find there is probably better than ores leading up to that.

This is why what you're proposing doesn't work. It takes an entire character's history and tosses it aside because they may not have had the time or want to level yet. That's just not something many people should or will go for.
12/03/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Madican
Backpedal harder please.


Backpedaling implies I said something in the beginning I wasn't willing to stick with.
This is the point: nobody is forcing you into these situations. If you don't like them, walk away.

Instead, you're pinning the blame on female characters whose style of dress "asks for it" and baddie roleplayers that don't know how to duel the way you like.

Take some responsibility for your own roleplay.

edit: And I'm out as well.
12/03/2012 01:01 PMPosted by Arielen
She wouldn't have dressed like that if she didn't want it.


If I don't see Enekie in this thread shortly I am going to be all of the mad.


That's really the only reason I've kept coming back to this thread since my last post.
12/03/2012 01:04 PMPosted by Zulatal
Backpedal harder please.


Backpedaling implies I said something in the beginning I wasn't willing to stick with.


I have bingo, folks.
Well, I'm still waiting for most of my arguments to be answered, he only gave attention to a single one so far.

So I'm just gonna watch this thread for now.
I still disagree with this premise, because what you're doing is completely devaluing anything my character has done before coming to Azeroth. You have to come up with frankly rather unlikely explanations to get around the fact that my character has been doing what she does for a very long time. Why are Azerothian metals any better than anything else? We go to Draenor from levels ~60-70, so it stands to reason that what you find there is probably better than ores leading up to that


Honestly? I think you're overvaluing your character. I agree with the whole 'let me write my backstory and roleplay it' deal, but why not leave some room for progression? By your standards, I could make a level 1 Human Warrior, and post in his MRP (Or whatever you use) that this character no only has slain Arthas, but also Deathwing, and any future bosses. In the next expansion? Before it's released? This guy has beaten those raid mobs, and gotten all the epic loot. He may be level 1...Ignore that, but he's done it.

I agree that a backstory is important. But why not, if you're level 10, say that your character is still learning? Why would you 'max out' immediately? At level 80-90, put whatever you want! Put that your character has seen the edge of the universe and battled multitudes of demons. Put it! But why put that in if you're level 10?

Because here's the thing: You may be from Draenor, and an experienced Paladin, and a justicar of the light, and a champion of vengance, and has defeated 18 million demons, but if my character asks for help defeating 1 Burning Legion mob in Outlands, even just for RP sakes, what is your character going to say? Uh, no thanks...I'm busy....Uh...Fighting Kobolds?

I'm just saying have the mettle to back up your story.
Well, I'm still waiting for most of my arguments to be answered, he only gave attention to a single one so far.

So I'm just gonna watch this thread for now.


I've spoken to at least 3 people regarding their concerns.

As I said:

Sorry, so much hate, so little time (and I'm at work).
if level matters to you so much why not just duel them?

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