early t11 raiding spec for 10 mans

Rogue
so im doing pretty terribad dps in our raids and i dont know why so i was curious what spec should i be running for raids this early in the xpac
Gonna assume you mean t14 since t11 was first tier of Cata. For specs, well all are viable if played well but sub's hardest and combat is OP on any fight with a cleave. Assassination is the easiest. Course some might think sub's easy or assassination's hard (somehow), but that's general consensus.
Everyone says combat for Blade flurry because of the cleave fights. Don't PvE to much but gear will help you out tremendously regardless of the spec.
Gonna assume you mean t14 since t11 was first tier of Cata. For specs, well all are viable if played well but sub's hardest and combat is OP on any fight with a cleave. Assassination is the easiest. Course some might think sub's easy or assassination's hard (somehow), but that's general consensus.


assassin is just boring though. Sub is juggling finishers but by far the most fun imo.
11/29/2012 11:07 PMPosted by Sariel
Sub is juggling finishers but by far the most fun imo.

Agreed, though also juggling CDs somewhat. And it gets really fun when you wanna squeeze every but of dps out of Anticipation.
11/29/2012 11:07 PMPosted by Sariel
Gonna assume you mean t14 since t11 was first tier of Cata. For specs, well all are viable if played well but sub's hardest and combat is OP on any fight with a cleave. Assassination is the easiest. Course some might think sub's easy or assassination's hard (somehow), but that's general consensus.


assassin is just boring though. Sub is juggling finishers but by far the most fun imo.


It USED to be fun. Sure I get a couple more Eviscerates off, but in cata I had to juggle 5 things and when I did it flawlessly I did top DPS. If not I wasnt top, still high though. I wish sub still had that "do your rotation well and get rewarded" style.
early t14 assassination with equal weapons was a solid 10+K more dps at 463ish item levels on single target fights. Now around 495 where as combat 320 haste gems are better than agi/haste gems the difference in dps is so minor it is all about weapons and what you feel you play best as. Assassination is technically the easiest to get the most out of though at any gear level.
Edit: @Hassen
Well honestly we don't really have to juggle any more finishers since past t11 keeping rupture up was trivial. Only difference I guess is that SnD and rupture have larger durations, which I guess is significant. Definitely messing up with optimizing anticipation isn't gonna hurt you as much as missing a rupture refresh used to.
yeah i meant t14 dunno why i was thinking t11 my bad i know i need more gear but i mean i went from topping charts as sub in DS to barely beating tanks as any spec ive read forums and such tryign to figure out why its so bad i know its something i am doing wrong lol
If you are doing everything guides say then its probably just a matter of gear. Tanks are a lot closer to dps early in xpacs since their dps scales a lot less due to them trying to increase defensive stats rather than the dps increasing variety.
From what I have read it seems easier to flip back and forth between combat and sub since the stat weights indicated haste is preferred. Gems are different but the reforges are the same at least.
11/29/2012 11:55 PMPosted by Newkie
From what I have read it seems easier to flip back and forth between combat and sub since the stat weights indicated haste is preferred. Gems are different but the reforges are the same at least.


This is true. However, Sub does less single target damage than Combat currently, so there's not much reason to make that swap. Unfortunately, Sub currently doesn't have a niche. No cleave, poor AoE, and less single target than either Combat or Sub.

It will likely scale pretty high in later tiers, though.
11/29/2012 11:55 PMPosted by Newkie
From what I have read it seems easier to flip back and forth between combat and sub since the stat weights indicated haste is preferred. Gems are different but the reforges are the same at least.

Actually reforges for sub are...different. We think. Its kinda embarrassing cause I'm suposed to be the sub expert and don't know (I can't run tests because I don't have daggers). Anyway Shadowcraft has crit as pretty high up there for most gear sets, though near BiS haste shows as our best non-cappable stat. At low gear levels all secondary stats are pretty even too anyway. So basically...yeah, sub and combat are closer, but stat weights are a bit more complicated than you're making them out to be.
This is true. However, Sub does less single target damage than Combat currently, so there's not much reason to make that swap. Unfortunately, Sub currently doesn't have a niche. No cleave, poor AoE, and less single target than either Combat or Sub.

Sub's single target dps is quite nice actually, and as it benefits more than other specs from being played right (especially when it comes to Anticipation cause of its mastery & number of finishers). Currently anticipation used optimally is pretty much not implemented in SimC and Shadowcraft too, and from what I know sub shows as highest in at least SimC. Basically I don't know where you're getting this.

Also its worth noting that sub's better than assassination on multi-target fights since past 2 enemies CT becomes part of the rotation.
My apologies, I wasn't trying to say the weights are exactly the same, I only meant that they more similar than either combat/sub is to assassination. There isn't a great deal of haste/mastery gear for example. So a piece of gear with haste would be good for both sub and combat whereas there are better options for assassination. I know Mastery > Crit for Combat. And I have read the same thing for Sub on various sites and on this forum.
I don't mean to say sub is horrible, certainly far from it. But logs currently show it being a little behind single target and AOE. Not enough to not play it if you're extremely good at Sub, mind you.
11/30/2012 02:07 AMPosted by Blacksad
But logs currently show it being a little behind single target and AOE.

Well World of Logs shows it way behind the other specs but there are also way fewer sub rogues than any rogues of the other specs (sub is at like 14%, mostly concentrated in normal modes whereas the remaining percent is split about evenly between combat/assassination).

I'd be interested to see where you got that data if not from WoL.
next tier sub will pull ahead due to agility scaling on single target and it will be just like DS. Assassination with anticipation for the lower skilled players to keep their dps relatively high due to the low skillcap, scumbag dps meter padding flurry combat rogues, and high skill high reward sub for single target fights. For now though, sub has no real place because it falls behind all specs on single target and aoe.

I personally won't be messing with sub until more heroics are down and I can at least push my ilvl above 500
11/29/2012 11:33 PMPosted by Hassen


assassin is just boring though. Sub is juggling finishers but by far the most fun imo.


It USED to be fun. Sure I get a couple more Eviscerates off, but in cata I had to juggle 5 things and when I did it flawlessly I did top DPS. If not I wasnt top, still high though. I wish sub still had that "do your rotation well and get rewarded" style.


^^ That.
Cata's Sub rotation was !@#$ing perfect.
Sub AoE is actually damn good because of CT activating SV.
On Mel'Jarak 25n I pull even with if not beat the mut rogue in my guild (he's 493 and has heroic fully upgraded dagger and I'm 487) as sub damn near every time. He's no slouch either.

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