Anyone else miss old DeathKnights?

Death Knight
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ss used to be a 2 rune strike that hit for pure shadow damage.


Come on bro, you think I dont know about SS? I'm wounded.

i never know with dk forums man...

anywho pure shadow damage scourge strike hit extremely hard. compared to the current day scourge strike which takes multiple hits in damage reduction in pvp ex: armor +resil on physical and last i checked the shadow portion gets hit by resil a 2nd time
I miss the ghoul puke attack animation for the stun. But I think that didn't even make it out of the beta.

And frost AOE tank supreme.


What's wrong with SS?

ss used to be a 2 rune strike that hit for pure shadow damage.


The pure shadow damage version didn't last for too long. I think around the time Ulduar hit, it changes to a half and half. But I'm not asking for a pure shadow damage SS back. I just want the button to feel like it matters, as opposed to torturing whatever key I have it bound to. (it used to be the number 4 key, but now there is just a blank key between 3 and 5.)

Unholy used to be all about SS. Cata changed unholy to being all about the pet, and oddly, the old style of Blood DPS rotation. I really have no idea why I even play unholy. Just stubborn, I guess.
Unholy used to be all about SS. Cata changed unholy to being all about the pet, and oddly, the old style of Blood DPS rotation. I really have no idea why I even play unholy. Just stubborn, I guess.


Um, the old Blood DPS rotation was nothing like what Unholy's is like now. It was all about Death Striking. Blood almost never made use of it's Death runes for anything but Death Strike, and only Blood runes were used for Heart Strike or Pestilence if diseases were about to fall off. There was nothing spam-like about it.
wotlk DKs werent op in 3.3.5 and were so much more fun, i remember i started as frost tank, then leveled as unholy tank, then frost tank until 3.2 where i went blood tank and have been blood since

I just REALLY want that old 4.0 super cool looking blood boil back
The pure shadow damage version didn't last for too long. I think around the time Ulduar hit, it changes to a half and half.


Actually it was changed during TotC.
12/05/2012 04:41 PMPosted by Manarri
Unholy used to be all about SS. Cata changed unholy to being all about the pet, and oddly, the old style of Blood DPS rotation. I really have no idea why I even play unholy. Just stubborn, I guess.


Um, the old Blood DPS rotation was nothing like what Unholy's is like now. It was all about Death Striking. Blood almost never made use of it's Death runes for anything but Death Strike, and only Blood runes were used for Heart Strike or Pestilence if diseases were about to fall off. There was nothing spam-like about it.

old blood dps rotation was using death strike to change frost/unholy runes to death for heart strike spam the next rune rotation.
it was exactly like unholy plays now without the pet and gargoyle.

you sub death strike for festering to transform frost/blood runes for you to spam scourge strike your next rune rotation.
old blood dps rotation was using death strike to change frost/unholy runes to death for heart strike spam the next rune rotation.
it was exactly like unholy plays now without the pet and gargoyle.

you sub death strike for festering to transform frost/blood runes for you to spam scourge strike your next rune rotation.


Sure, you could Heart Strike spam, but it was considered bad by the majority of players and it upset the rune rotation. It was entirely about Death Striking as much as possible, and only Heart Striking with Blood runes. If I remember correctly, two Heart Strikes did barely outweigh one Death Strike, but it wasn't by so much that it was ever worth the extra global (which was 1.5 sec at the time) and that led to it interfering with how the runes came back in time. I think Death Strike also had a higher Crit chance due to talents, but I'm foggy on that detail.
old blood dps rotation was using death strike to change frost/unholy runes to death for heart strike spam the next rune rotation.
it was exactly like unholy plays now without the pet and gargoyle.

you sub death strike for festering to transform frost/blood runes for you to spam scourge strike your next rune rotation.


Sure, you could Heart Strike spam, but it was considered bad by the majority of players and it upset the rune rotation. It was entirely about Death Striking as much as possible, and only Heart Striking with Blood runes. If I remember correctly, two Heart Strikes did barely outweigh one Death Strike, but it wasn't by so much that it was ever worth the extra global (which was 1.5 sec at the time) and that led to it interfering with how the runes came back in time. I think Death Strike also had a higher Crit chance due to talents, but I'm foggy on that detail.

per rune used heart strike was more damage than death strike. this was a fact. runes had a set time in which they regenned and you could easily fit in heart strike spam before more runes came up as well as rp dumping. old blood dps and current unholy follow almost an identical form of rotation
I miss Corpse Explosion. The original Corpse explosion, I mean I am glad we got it back as a glyph but its not the same thing. Its boring actually.

I had to make a macro to add Headless Horseman's laugh whenever i used the new CE spell just to make it more interesting.

Yea pre-cata DK's were awesome.
12/05/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Kusari
per rune used heart strike was more damage than death strike. this was a fact. runes had a set time in which they regenned and you could easily fit in heart strike spam before more runes came up as well as rp dumping. old blood dps and current unholy follow almost an identical form of rotation


I recognize that Heart Strike was more damage per rune, but it wasn't enough to offset the fact that it took more time to put out. For a rough math equivalent, say that Death Strike hits for 100 damage, and Heart Strike hits 55. We'd be able to Death Strike every five seconds, but it would take an extra global to get the second Heart Strike out so lets just round that down to six seconds, and lets suppose a 100 second fight. A five second cd would let you get in twenty strikes, and a six second cd would let you get in 16.666…, so I'll round to seventeen.

Heart Strike (x2 = 110) - 110 x 17 = 1870
Death Strike - 100 x 20 = 2,000

I even rounded those numbers in favor of Heart Strike and it still comes out noticeably lower than Death Strike simply because of how many strike it would get in. That isn't even accounting for the delayed Death Strikes that come after spamming Heart Strike, which probably would have resulted in a disease-less strike landing and even worse having to reapply your diseases since that timing was extremely tight at the time. It necessitated that you use two rune strikes to make the timing of Pestilence refreshing your diseases work.
11/28/2012 12:19 AMPosted by Frappaccino
initial release, 5 DKs all with blood aura destroying RAMPS! AND when you died you came back as a ghoul. now THOSE were the days


Loved this and the fact you had choices to do whatever you wanted. Tank in any spec, dps in any spec. Too bad blizzard went with their homogenize everything campaign, and took away our choice.

I still miss the original unholy blight and shadow of death.
12/06/2012 06:05 AMPosted by Ghostnecro
initial release, 5 DKs all with blood aura destroying RAMPS! AND when you died you came back as a ghoul. now THOSE were the days


Loved this and the fact you had choices to do whatever you wanted. Tank in any spec, dps in any spec. Too bad blizzard went with their homogenize everything campaign, and took away our choice.

I still miss the original unholy blight and shadow of death.


Yeah too bad they actually balanced things, right? I love when people confuse reasonable balance efforts with "homogenization". Homogenization is the new viable.
per rune used heart strike was more damage than death strike. this was a fact. runes had a set time in which they regenned and you could easily fit in heart strike spam before more runes came up as well as rp dumping. old blood dps and current unholy follow almost an identical form of rotation


I recognize that Heart Strike was more damage per rune, but it wasn't enough to offset the fact that it took more time to put out. For a rough math equivalent, say that Death Strike hits for 100 damage, and Heart Strike hits 55. We'd be able to Death Strike every five seconds, but it would take an extra global to get the second Heart Strike out so lets just round that down to six seconds, and lets suppose a 100 second fight. A five second cd would let you get in twenty strikes, and a six second cd would let you get in 16.666…, so I'll round to seventeen.

Heart Strike (x2 = 110) - 110 x 17 = 1870
Death Strike - 100 x 20 = 2,000

I even rounded those numbers in favor of Heart Strike and it still comes out noticeably lower than Death Strike simply because of how many strike it would get in. That isn't even accounting for the delayed Death Strikes that come after spamming Heart Strike, which probably would have resulted in a disease-less strike landing and even worse having to reapply your diseases since that timing was extremely tight at the time. It necessitated that you use two rune strikes to make the timing of Pestilence refreshing your diseases work.
how would you be able to death strike every 5 seconds when runes had a 10 second cd baseline? i told you in my previous post not only would you be able to fit in heart strike spam you would have time left over to runic dump while waiting on runes to refresh. as long as you were not sitting on runes at any time you werent wasting potential damage. also performing blood dps near end of wrath actually went diseaseless so no wasted runes through pestilence refresh there eiether.

edit: also correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure during wrath heart strikes weapon damage % was quite a bit higher than death strikes.
Yeah... I'm not sure if I miss my old Blood DPS as much as I just miss Wrath in general. I wasn't much of a Raider but it was a good time when I did.

And Frost Tanking was a blast in 5 mans. Maybe not optimal, but a good time nonetheless.

I remember that Forge of Souls made Tank Druids cry, but Death Knights were perfect for it. I was a jerk, but I stepped up a lot just to show off how easy it was for us. XD
"hammering away on a piano like a retard...Bro u just sound stupid. Piano playing is tough son.
pianos are for sissies. i prefered to think of it as guitar hero
how would you be able to death strike every 5 seconds when runes had a 10 second cd baseline? i told you in my previous post not only would you be able to fit in heart strike spam you would have time left over to runic dump while waiting on runes to refresh. as long as you were not sitting on runes at any time you werent wasting potential damage. also performing blood dps near end of wrath actually went diseaseless so no wasted runes through pestilence refresh there eiether.

edit: also correct me if im wrong but im fairly sure during wrath heart strikes weapon damage % was quite a bit higher than death strikes.


I was comparing a set of Death runes being used for a Death Strike to two Heart Strikes; four runes coming up in just about ten seconds equates to two Death Strikes per ten, hence the five second cool down. However, these weren't intended to be completely accurate numbers, since we would need accurate percentages and numbers on both Heart Strike and Death Strike to decisively say one over the other. I was only trying to show an example that even though Hear Strike could to do more damage, because of the extra global it would fall behind in damage overall.

Unfortunately we don't have any way (at least none that I know of) to find those old tooltips again and find out the exact percentages and bonus damage. I know we can pull up the talents trees per patch on various websites, but the actual numbers that the talents affected are lost to my knowledge. In the end I'm just saying this is what I remember it being, and why the rotation was that way. It's past content and not really worth arguing over.
12/06/2012 09:54 AMPosted by Zaark
"hammering away on a piano like a retard"...Bro u just sound stupid. Piano playing is tough son.


Hammering away on a piano like a retard isn't tough, though. Bro. Looks like you're the stupid one.
Yeah....I miss it when DK's could give passive speed bonus to all allies, and raise all dead units in the area to fight for them for a bit.

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