Chakra 5.1 holy Priest DPS

Priest
this week i would try holy dps in my raid in MSV and HoF.
from my test today in heroic dungeons and dummies, my 485 priest, after using proper glyphs, Power Infusion, Mindbender and halo, can do around 57k dps in patchwerk style fight.
my raid leader would be more than glad to have my holy dps as I can offer more healing when some of our raid member sucks.
Still wondering what's the exact purpose of this change. It makes holy even slightly better than shadow in patchwerk style fight. But believe me, those fights which require a lot of moving or multi-targets would need shadow.
12/06/2012 01:58 AMPosted by Holydoctor
Still wondering what's the exact purpose of this change. It makes holy even slightly better than shadow in patchwerk style fight. But believe me, those fights which require a lot of moving or multi-targets would need shadow.


My suspicion is that it has to do with PvP. Rather that make Holy Priests able to survive in PvP, they decided to ramp up their threat level high enough that they might actually beat an opponent before the opponent beat them.

However, the most interesting outgrowth of this change for me is that it led to a change in how I heal. I originally started playing around with Holy DPS and ended up with a healing style where I spend most of my time in Inner Will while using Power Word: Solace/Twist of Faith and reforging away from Spirit entirely towards raw throughput. If I get the 4-piece, I imagine my healing output will jump even more.
I think it was mostly just to give Holy some soloing power (they were pretty much the weakest solo DPS among healers, save maybe resto shaman).
What Swagguh said, methinks. Soloing could, at times, be downright difficult as a Holy.

I play Holy exclusively and the change has been dramatic for my dailies (particularly a big help in the Shadow Pan fights.) I can now down an enemy in 10 casts as opposed to 15 or 16.

I'm going into angel-form much less since the buff.
Everyone trying this, don't forget that you can reforge all hit into haste/crit as well.

Secondly, how do we go about determining if its better to use haste or crit? Does it matter?
[quote="73192739581"]
However, the most interesting outgrowth of this change for me is that it led to a change in how I heal. I originally started playing around with Holy DPS and ended up with a healing style where I spend most of my time in Inner Will while using Power Word: Solace/Twist of Faith and reforging away from Spirit entirely towards raw throughput. If I get the 4-piece, I imagine my healing output will jump even more.


Interesting, I might have to play around with this! Perhaps keeping the talent that gives free flash heals when damaging with Smite, etc.
12/06/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Wyndorn
Interesting, I might have to play around with this! Perhaps keeping the talent that gives free flash heals when damaging with Smite, etc.


Taking FDCL with Smite was my first thought, but I was unable to make it work due to the cooldown on Chakra. You can interleave PW: Solace, but you can't really do the same thing with Chakra: Chastise.

The unmentioned quirks:
1. 16.6%+ haste. Since PW: Solace converts time into mana, this is a good boost to throughput (and gives extra ticks).
2. I only use PoH when I roll it against mass AE (ie: entire groups are damaged). I do tend to Binding Heal myself and another party member before throwing PoH on another group, though.
3. Otherwise, pretty much all I use are CoH, ProM, Cascade, Lightwell, Divine Hymn and Holy Word: Sanctuary.
4. I only do LFR. For various reasons, I took a break from serious raiding this expansion. So it's not like I really put this approach through the ringer.
Everyone trying this, don't forget that you can reforge all hit into haste/crit as well.

Secondly, how do we go about determining if its better to use haste or crit? Does it matter?


I suspect haste still edges out crit, though probably not by the same margin as for shadow.

One thing I like about the holy dps spec is its simplicity in stat priorities. You want haste and crit...hit and mastery and spirit are completely useless. Unfortunately this means that to fully optimize for holy dps, almost everything in a healer set is useless (way too much wasted spirit) and a shadow set would also need to ditch a bit over 3000 spirit. Alas I don't think you can build a full set of only haste/crit gear.
Just another update, I did the second half of HoF (LFR) as holy dps. 150k on Mel'jarak, 90k dps on Un'sok, and 78k DPS on Shek'zeer. #1 for all three fights.

This spec is bonkers.
Just another update, I did the second half of HoF (LFR) as holy dps. 150k on Mel'jarak, 90k dps on Un'sok, and 78k DPS on Shek'zeer. #1 for all three fights.

This spec is bonkers.


I'm finding the same sort of results. Mind Sear in Chastise Chakra is unbelievable. For those who have toyed around with it in LFR/heroics, are you finding it more beneficial on 2-4 targets to multidot with SW:P and continue to Holy Fire/Smite one target, or just HF/Smite a single target from the getgo?

I'm also having resounding success with Twist of Fate, which is absolutely nuts for fights like Will of the Emperor when you have five instant casts - Holy Fire, SW:P, Chastise, your levle 90 talent, and SW:D - at your disposal.

The main reason I am playing with this is not so much because Smite DPS has been a dream of mine since the original incarnation of Surge of Light made it possible in BC (back before Mind Flay could crit), but because my guild only has 7 regular members, and we seem to have more luck pugging a mediocre-to-good healer without a DPS offspec than a halfway decent main spec DPS. As such, I'm thinking of rolling with Holy DPS glyphs/talents when a boss fight needs 2.5 healers. The real question I want to know is whether Shadow works better as a DPS + half healer (with tools like Vampiric Embrace, Divine Star, utility like Dispersion for Unseen Strikes) or Holy would be preferred, by dropping tools like Lightwell, using Divine Hymn during Titan Gas, etc.

As a final point, I am also finding it difficult to pick up pieces that are Stam/Int + Crit/Haste, but you better believe that when I do, I'm saving my 100 rolls for it. I can't help but wonder just how effective this spec would be in the hands of someone who has nothing but 489+ crit/haste gear.
Im a new(ish, just came back after about 6+ months) and im very interested in this. How exactly would the rotation go>?
Without knowing the proper theorycraft (how I wish there was some!), for single targets:

1) Shadow Word: Death if available
2) Keep SW:Pain up, refresh when <3 seconds left
3) Holy Fire on cooldown (with the instant-cast HF glyph)
4) Cram in as many Smites while Holy Fire is up (with the +20% damage on Smite while Holy Fire is active glyph)

For 5+ targets, solely using Mind Sear seems to be the best choice. From 2-4, I would need to play around to find the best option.

Points of note:

- Use Mindbender on CD (no other talent in the tier is really useful - your Smite/Holy Fire spells cost virtually nothing and Solace doesn't stack Evanglism, so that choice is not relevant, although if you have a duty to off-heal, FDCL might be a bad choice)
- If spec'd into it, keep Twist of Fate rolling as much as you can. Perhaps make a Power/Weakauras notification for it so. Not sure how useful Power Infusion is, since you're likely to be almost entirely loaded up with Haste and Smites will probably be dipping below 1sec.
- Macro Engineering glove tinker/trinkets to your hard hitting spells. In Shadow that's usually Devouring Plague, as Holy, probably Holy Fire.
- Holy Word: Chastise itself is pretty low damage, but can be used on the move/to proc Twist of Fate on an almost-dead mob.

I love using Divine Star over the other choices for three reasons: firstly, it fairly reliably procs trinkets that require using healing spells to activate (as a main spec healer it is hard to convince raid leaders to let me have DPS trinkets). Additionally, as Holy, it works well as a raid heal. You also can use it as a 'filler' spell when your Holy Fire has fallen off, before you can reapply it - on Will of the Emperor LFR, I found it was doing about 33k noncrit per hit (so approx. 66k without either critting), which is more than a Smite would have done in that time frame. On your second runthrough, you are likely to refresh SW:P in this window, so Divine Star will be back up for your third gap where Holy Fire falls off. It actually felt quite smooth until SW:D/target switching threw some spanners.

I expect this to receive as much ire as going Beast Mastery did before MoP hit. As long as people are aware that this is unlikely to be a primary DPS spec (and if it does, you can expect it to be nerfed within the week), but it can fulfil the role of a flexible raid spot, I'm hoping we can have some constructive discussion on how to maximise our efficiency.

Edit: I'll add some numbers with my current gear setup with no buffs/int procs active except for Inner Fire and Chakra: Chastise unless otherwise specified.

Chastise: 21.7k
Smite without Evangelism: 32k
Smite with 5x Evangelism: 39k
Divine Star (per hit): 23k
.·. Divine Star hitting twice on one target: 46k

Holy Fire without Evangelism: 39k
Holy Fire with 5x Evangelism: 47k

Smite with 5x Evangelism + Holy Fire active: 47k

SW:P: 10.8k per tick
Mind Sear on 4 target dummies outside Shrine: 42k per tick = 10.5k per target per tick
Mind Sear damage total for one full channel (4 targets): 266k with 23 hits, 1 crit (which means it must have ticked 6 times then, wasn't aware it had a haste threshold)
Mind Buddy:
256k per minute (11 hits, 1 glancing)
237k per minute (8 hits, 4 glancing)
I saw someone doing 80k DPS on Stoneguards trash last week when I was in a pug. I decided to change my lowbie priest (almost no heirlooms) to holy and I'm usually doing 60% of damage on bosses. Helps that I'm an herbalist with the haste buff. I am also using holy fire/smite glyphs.

At my alt's level, multi-dotting doesn't work since mobs die within 5 seconds. But anyone figure out what's the best rotation for this?

I'm thinking about dropping the PVP spec I never use on this character for holy too.

Edit: I'm not doing crazy single target DPS atm, but I'm beating everyone else in heroics on this character. Doing a TON of AoE for sure, beating frost DKs.
Trellia the numbers I'm getting out of my spells matches yours pretty closely (then again, our ilvls are virtually identical).

So far I've been using Halo for DPS as it gives the largest DPS boost on fights where you can position yourself within the sweet spot. Alas I don't think Cascade has much use in most of the current tier of raids (maybe with the exception of Elegon adds and Will of the Emperor?).

With regards to 2-4 targets, multi-dot + HF/smite spam on primary should be the optimal route, though I haven't tested that out. Basically you're giving up one smite for each SW:P you cast, and SW:P does more damage than smite even if you have 5 stacks of Evangelism and the Holy Fire dot ticking.

Just as another interesting note, if you have the 4pc shadow set, the extra 3 seconds on SW:P allows you to fit two holy fires in between each SW:P. This allows you to take full advantage of all holy fires rather than having to eventually either clip SW:P early or waste some of the holy fire dot's duration recasting SW:P.
12/06/2012 09:59 PMPosted by Fancypants
So far I've been using Halo for DPS as it gives the largest DPS boost on fights where you can position yourself within the sweet spot. Alas I don't think Cascade has much use in most of the current tier of raids (maybe with the exception of Elegon adds and Will of the Emperor?).


I'm leery of Halo due to the "I aggro the whole room" factor, but otherwise I'd call it a strict win over the other options. Divine Star may have gotten buffed, but it's not an appreciably better use of my casting time than Smite (on a single target). Cascade is simply wonky as an offensive spell.

Just as another interesting note, if you have the 4pc shadow set, the extra 3 seconds on SW:P allows you to fit two holy fires in between each SW:P. This allows you to take full advantage of all holy fires rather than having to eventually either clip SW:P early or waste some of the holy fire dot's duration recasting SW:P.


Well, the Holy set bonuses are obviously worthless for Holy dps. However, if you've got the Shadow set you're also going to really sandbag Spirit to make up the discrepancy in dps. As much as healers complain about pieces with no Spirit, it's surprisingly hard to find gear with neither hit nor Spirit on it.
Is it good to glyph Shadow Word: Death?
12/07/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Lollipop
Is it good to glyph Shadow Word: Death?


I don't know that there's any expert opinion on this, but I'd say probably not.

Above 20% life, SW:D is less dps than even an unaided Smite. So you'd never cast it above 20% unless you were in motion. Even then, it's not like glyph'd SW:D is transforming your poor in-motion performance into something respectable.

Indeed, I'm a bit sketchy on glyph'ing Holy Fire. While it does provide a small dps boost, it's a lot less than you might initially think because you effectively lose 1.5 sec of the DoT for Smiting purposes. So an unglyphed build would go Holy Fire + 5 * Smite while a glyphed one would do Holy Fire + 4 * Smite.
12/07/2012 04:40 PMPosted by Medeyn
Indeed, I'm a bit sketchy on glyph'ing Holy Fire. While it does provide a small dps boost, it's a lot less than you might initially think because you effectively lose 1.5 sec of the DoT for Smiting purposes. So an unglyphed build would go Holy Fire + 5 * Smite while a glyphed one would do Holy Fire + 4 * Smite.


Glyphing for Holy Fire is only a dps gain on fights where you would otherwise be forced to delay your HF cast because of movement. Granted there are many many fights this tier with movement.

By not glyphing it, what you gain is basically 20% of one Smite for each 10 second window between Holy Fires. My Smite at 483 ilvl hits for just under 40k with a full stack of Evangelism, so I basically gain 8k damage every 10 seconds (800 dps). That's assuming you cast Holy Fire exactly every 10 seconds and you take full advantage of the dot afterwards...if you can't (movement forces you to delay Holy Fire, or you refresh SW:P while the HF dot is ticking), then the DPS gain is less

So the question is, if I glyph Holy Fire, does the ability to cast on the move gain me ~800dps to offset the loss of Smite damage? Hard to say, since that involves keeping track of a whole bunch of things that logs can't actually read. Based on nothing but my intuition, I feel that glyphing for Holy Fire is the right way to go on everything except a pure Patchwerk fight where you never move an inch.
My suspicion is that it has to do with PvP. Rather that make Holy Priests able to survive in PvP, they decided to ramp up their threat level high enough that they might actually beat an opponent before the opponent beat them.


Holy will still hit like a wet noodle in PVP due to the PVP Power change/nerf from a few weeks ago as they wont benefit from PVP power while doing DPS.

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