JoinBattlefield, Post 5.1? PART 2

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I would also like to make it clear that I have used Preform AV Enabler to lead HK farm groups while they were causing a ruckus on the forums at the end of Cata. Even during those times I had maintained this type of premade activity should not be allowed. I lost one game in the hundreds of games I led and >95% of them were cakewalks. I don't see how anyone can consider that fun. I only used it as a means to an end.

But when you have a mostly organized bunch vs completely unorganized pugs you will have such an incredible advantage it's just silly to say you have fun doing it. I haven't used it since I got Bloodthirsty and I won't even if it were brought back.


so what you're saying is that although you proclaim
the horrible sins of premade groups, you used a
premade addon and led premade groups to farm
hk's so you can get an achievement and once you
got what you was after... ohhh the hypocisy.

nothing you say has merit.

Cheers.
Pleb.

You're completely misreading my post.

It is not beside the point. The 5 limit was made because they wanted to give people the freedom to queue as a group but not so much to be an overwhelming to join as an entire premade vs a pure pug. That is the balance they have decided to go with and I think it is a perfectly fine way to go about. You can still go in groups, though not large, and you are not against giant premades that are, at times, overwhelming.


Ok, let me try to understand this. You think a 5 group for PVP is fine, right?
So you would go in to a 10 or 25 man PVE raid instance with only 5, right?
(And I am not talking old raids that can be walked through by solos now)

The point I am not seeing is why we as a PVP community are being, as you yourself put it, "marginalized" for choosing PVP.
Terrible analogy. Raids are not the PVE equivalent of unrated battlegrounds. They're the pve equivalent of rated battlegrounds. You know, one of the options that you have available to you if you want organized, large group pvp.
I would also like to make it clear that I have used Preform AV Enabler to lead HK farm groups while they were causing a ruckus on the forums at the end of Cata. Even during those times I had maintained this type of premade activity should not be allowed. I lost one game in the hundreds of games I led and >95% of them were cakewalks. I don't see how anyone can consider that fun. I only used it as a means to an end.

But when you have a mostly organized bunch vs completely unorganized pugs you will have such an incredible advantage it's just silly to say you have fun doing it. I haven't used it since I got Bloodthirsty and I won't even if it were brought back.


so what you're saying is that although you proclaim
the horrible sins of premade groups, you used a
premade addon and led premade groups to farm
hk's so you can get an achievement and once you
got what you was after... ohhh the hypocisy.

nothing you say has merit.

Cheers.
Pleb.

Well hey, you have fun on your God Mode pvping since you don't care about fighting on even grounds. rofl, tell me I have no merit when I admit it shouldn't be in game. The nerve.
I would also like to make it clear that I have used Preform AV Enabler to lead HK farm groups while they were causing a ruckus on the forums at the end of Cata. Even during those times I had maintained this type of premade activity should not be allowed. I lost one game in the hundreds of games I led and >95% of them were cakewalks. I don't see how anyone can consider that fun. I only used it as a means to an end.

But when you have a mostly organized bunch vs completely unorganized pugs you will have such an incredible advantage it's just silly to say you have fun doing it. I haven't used it since I got Bloodthirsty and I won't even if it were brought back.


umm ... means to an end? In other words you got your Bloodthirsty title and didn't need it anymore?
You used it, you lead groups using it, you won 95% of time, but you hated it, it wasn't fun and you are putting down people that like it and wanted to use it?
Do you see an issue with this?

Sigh. Reallly? Know how you can queue for a battleground as a group, but only with a party and not a raid? How you used to be able to, but that feature was taken away? Know how if you have to jump though all sorts of hoops to get it back? Know how when you do, your games are strangely very, very easy? Blizzard should not have to create full, detailed documentation on every single feature that's possible in the game and then add 'and don't try to get around this one, either!'

Honestly, you shouldn't have to have everything spelled out for you. If you had an ounce of common sense you'd at least realize you were doing something you weren't supposed to be doing. So I'm sorry that you don't believe that the limitation on party size constitutes a 'rule,' I'm afraid I'm going to have to take GC's word for it over yours.


wow, I never said there was or wasn't any rules, I just asked a question.
Yes, the limitation on party size would be considered a "rule".
You can not have more than 5 in a party.
But I do not see, or have I heard of any rule against more than 1 party queing at the same time, Be it addon or the plain old fashion call out and count down. (Which btw, I should send a huge ty to the Alliance side for teaching that to us many many years ago. It was a huge help)
Well, now you know. There's a rule. Getting more than five people into one battleground is breaking that rule.

I would also like to make it clear that I have used Preform AV Enabler to lead HK farm groups while they were causing a ruckus on the forums at the end of Cata. Even during those times I had maintained this type of premade activity should not be allowed. I lost one game in the hundreds of games I led and >95% of them were cakewalks. I don't see how anyone can consider that fun. I only used it as a means to an end.

But when you have a mostly organized bunch vs completely unorganized pugs you will have such an incredible advantage it's just silly to say you have fun doing it. I haven't used it since I got Bloodthirsty and I won't even if it were brought back.


umm ... means to an end? In other words you got your Bloodthirsty title and didn't need it anymore?
You used it, you lead groups using it, you won 95% of time, but you hated it, it wasn't fun and you are putting down people that like it and wanted to use it?
Do you see an issue with this?
His perspective's just as valid as anyone else's. He's taking issue with people who claim that these games are fun and competitive. He knows from experience that they're not.


umm ... means to an end? In other words you got your Bloodthirsty title and didn't need it anymore?
You used it, you lead groups using it, you won 95% of time, but you hated it, it wasn't fun and you are putting down people that like it and wanted to use it?
Do you see an issue with this?
His perspective's just as valid as anyone else's. He's taking issue with people who claim that these games are fun and competitive. He knows from experience that they're not.

Didn't think I needed to spell it out . . . .

Was I going to get 100k more HKs doing it the normal way? That would take forever. It's a nice title and I wanted it. Actually getting there was not so nice.


Ok, let me try to understand this. You think a 5 group for PVP is fine, right?
So you would go in to a 10 or 25 man PVE raid instance with only 5, right?
(And I am not talking old raids that can be walked through by solos now)

The point I am not seeing is why we as a PVP community are being, as you yourself put it, "marginalized" for choosing PVP.
Terrible analogy. Raids are not the PVE equivalent of unrated battlegrounds. They're the pve equivalent of rated battlegrounds. You know, one of the options that you have available to you if you want organized, large group pvp.


ummm excuse me but RBG's have a limit of 10 people.
Is a 10 person group large to you?
Terrible analogy. Raids are not the PVE equivalent of unrated battlegrounds. They're the pve equivalent of rated battlegrounds. You know, one of the options that you have available to you if you want organized, large group pvp.


ummm excuse me but RBG's have a limit of 10 people.
Is a 10 person group large to you?

And we've been talking about random BGs. Where you queue and group up with random people. So random BGs relate better with LFR.

I'm starting to smell either really dumb or really troll.
His perspective's just as valid as anyone else's. He's taking issue with people who claim that these games are fun and competitive. He knows from experience that they're not.


OK, from "MY" perspective going in to a 10, 15, and 40 man PVP instance, commonly known as Battlegrounds, with a group friends, guildies and live people is a lot more fun than queing solo for a random and facing either a zerg, a graveyard camp or a bunch of scripted bots attacking anything that happens near them.

I know from 8 years of experience that grouping with friends, be it large or small, pvp or pve, is a whole lot more fun than soloing.


ummm excuse me but RBG's have a limit of 10 people.
Is a 10 person group large to you?

And we've been talking about random BGs. Where you queue and group up with random people. So random BGs relate better with LFR.

I'm starting to smell either really dumb or really troll.


I am not dumb and not a troll. I know you were wimpering about q'ing for "random" BG's and facing a premade. Which it turns out you didn't do anyway.

We were told as a PVP community to take out "large" premades to Rated BG's or Wargames.
I was stating the fact that "Rated"BG's only go as high as 10 mans and war games give no rewards at all.

Simple enough for you?
12/03/2012 04:58 PMPosted by Xaeva
war games give no rewards at all.

Do it for the fun! I did some all druid war games, had a blast.

(also, large scale war is world pvp, pretty easy to find these days with CRZ)
And we've been talking about random BGs. Where you queue and group up with random people. So random BGs relate better with LFR.

I'm starting to smell either really dumb or really troll.

Random Battlegrounds means you are queuing for a random map, not random people.

Random BG's equate more to the random "Looking for Dungeon" than LFR. Which you can (surprise) queue with a full group for. If you are really trying to draw parallels here, think of this as though you were suddenly only allowed to queue for LFD with a max of 2 people.

Come to think of it, you can queue for LFR with as many people as you want, too. So that situation applies to this even less.

But I agree with Pleb, you used the addons, you ran hundreds of BGs, you did what you are now condemning. Your opinion and your words mean nothing.
And we've been talking about random BGs. Where you queue and group up with random people. So random BGs relate better with LFR.

I'm starting to smell either really dumb or really troll.

Random Battlegrounds means you are queuing for a random map, not random people.

Random BG's equate more to the random "Looking for Dungeon" than LFR. Which you can (surprise) queue with a full group for. If you are really trying to draw parallels here, think of this as though you were suddenly only allowed to queue for LFD with a max of 2 people.

Come to think of it, you can queue for LFR with as many people as you want, too. So that situation applies to this even less.

But I agree with Pleb, you used the addons, you ran hundreds of BGs, you did what you are now condemning. Your opinion and your words mean nothing.

First, the PvP to PvE comparison is not something I care for. That is the closest you can get, however, in terms of a comparison. Someone else brought it up.

Secondly, if you want to continue saying I did it and therefor I should have no say in the matter is shortsighted at best. Me running hundreds of BGs against countless pugs that had absolutely no chance to win actually STRENGTHENS my point. It's no fun for those people that are getting curb stomped and if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.
12/03/2012 05:13 PMPosted by Dysheki
It's no fun for those people that are getting curb stomped and if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

No, it isn't. But you know what? That's pvp. You go in prepared, to win or to get kicked in the teeth, or you don't go in at all.

Losing is no fun, sure. But unless there's some kind of unspoken "No Noob Left Behind" rule out there, losing is part of the game. It's player versus player. Somebody has to lose! I would much rather lose to a team I know deserved to win because they were better than me than to a team that just happened to have less automated toons with nobody behind the keys.

I was very likely on the receiving end of one of your premades, and that's okay. :) Getting stomped prompted me to find a community of people I could group in BGs with. PvP isn't about giving the other team cookies and hugs. It's not personal. It's about winning, and if winning means you have to take that enemy flag carrier and beat him into a pulp in his own flag room, then so be it. You don't ask him nicely, "Gee, Mr. EFC, do you think you could...I dunno, maybe drop that flag for us so my friends and I could return it? Pretty please?" No. You CC his backup and tear him open from neck to navel while his healer watches.
12/03/2012 05:33 PMPosted by Sorina
It's no fun for those people that are getting curb stomped and if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

No, it isn't. But you know what? That's pvp. You go in prepared, to win or to get kicked in the teeth, or you don't go in at all.

Losing is no fun, sure. But unless there's some kind of unspoken "No Noob Left Behind" rule out there, losing is part of the game. It's player versus player. Somebody has to lose! I would much rather lose to a team I know deserved to win because they were better than me than to a team that just happened to have less automated toons with nobody behind the keys.

I was very likely on the receiving end of one of your premades, and that's okay. :) Getting stomped prompted me to find a community of people I could group in BGs with. PvP isn't about giving the other team cookies and hugs. It's not personal. It's about winning, and if winning means you have to take that enemy flag carrier and beat him into a pulp in his own flag room, then so be it. You don't ask him nicely, "Gee, Mr. EFC, do you think you could...I dunno, maybe drop that flag for us so my friends and I could return it? Pretty please?" No. You CC his backup and tear him open from neck to navel while his healer watches.

Being outplayed because you're of a lower skill is one thing, but to be equal skill and get taken to town because people are coordinating things is another. It's not really that fair and that's why the compromise of allowing a small group into random BGs is there while keeping shy of allowing full raids.
12/03/2012 05:33 PMPosted by Sorina
It's no fun for those people that are getting curb stomped and if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.

No, it isn't. But you know what? That's pvp. You go in prepared, to win or to get kicked in the teeth, or you don't go in at all.

Losing is no fun, sure. But unless there's some kind of unspoken "No Noob Left Behind" rule out there, losing is part of the game. It's player versus player. Somebody has to lose! I would much rather lose to a team I know deserved to win because they were better than me than to a team that just happened to have less automated toons with nobody behind the keys.

I was very likely on the receiving end of one of your premades, and that's okay. :) Getting stomped prompted me to find a community of people I could group in BGs with. PvP isn't about giving the other team cookies and hugs. It's not personal. It's about winning, and if winning means you have to take that enemy flag carrier and beat him into a pulp in his own flag room, then so be it. You don't ask him nicely, "Gee, Mr. EFC, do you think you could...I dunno, maybe drop that flag for us so my friends and I could return it? Pretty please?" No. You CC his backup and tear him open from neck to navel while his healer watches.


Sorina, you're tugging at my heart strings.
your post is very well said. it's to the point,
accurate, and dosed with my kind of humor.

Cheers.
Pleb.
First, the PvP to PvE comparison is not something I care for. That is the closest you can get, however, in terms of a comparison. Someone else brought it up.

Secondly, if you want to continue saying I did it and therefor I should have no say in the matter is shortsighted at best. Me running hundreds of BGs against countless pugs that had absolutely no chance to win actually STRENGTHENS my point. It's no fun for those people that are getting curb stomped and if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.


I totally agree that q'ing for a random BG and facing even a 5 man premade sucks. I did it hundreds of time. It was the only way I could get my honor gear and my conquest gear. BUT... then I found an addon and comunity that made it less painful.

The addon, like most addons, helped the solo pug improve his or her play style. It was free, open to the public, usable by both factions. Just like 100's and 1000's of other addons.

You keep saying that the addon was "unfair" to the radom player. There was nothing stopping them from getting and using the addon.
First, the PvP to PvE comparison is not something I care for. That is the closest you can get, however, in terms of a comparison. Someone else brought it up.

Secondly, if you want to continue saying I did it and therefor I should have no say in the matter is shortsighted at best. Me running hundreds of BGs against countless pugs that had absolutely no chance to win actually STRENGTHENS my point. It's no fun for those people that are getting curb stomped and if you think otherwise you are sorely mistaken.


I totally agree that q'ing for a random BG and facing even a 5 man premade sucks. I did it hundreds of time. It was the only way I could get my honor gear and my conquest gear. BUT... then I found an addon and comunity that made it less painful.

The addon, like most addons, helped the solo pug improve his or her play style. It was free, open to the public, usable by both factions. Just like 100's and 1000's of other addons.

You keep saying that the addon was "unfair" to the radom player. There was nothing stopping them from getting and using the addon.
Nothing except that the vast majority of players didn't know it existed, or even that it was possible to queue for battlegrounds in large groups, because the game did not and does not permit it. And when someone queues legitimately and gets matched up against a queue-exploiting premade, it does not matter that they 'could have' exploited the queue in the same way.
12/03/2012 04:52 PMPosted by Xaeva
His perspective's just as valid as anyone else's. He's taking issue with people who claim that these games are fun and competitive. He knows from experience that they're not.


OK, from "MY" perspective going in to a 10, 15, and 40 man PVP instance, commonly known as Battlegrounds, with a group friends, guildies and live people is a lot more fun than queing solo for a random and facing either a zerg, a graveyard camp or a bunch of scripted bots attacking anything that happens near them.

I know from 8 years of experience that grouping with friends, be it large or small, pvp or pve, is a whole lot more fun than soloing.
False dichotomy. Who ever said that playing with friends wasn't more fun than playing solo? There are lots of options for group pvp: unrated battlegrounds are for smaller groups, and rateds and wargames are for larger ones. It's not perfect, but it's what we have. If you expect to always have exactly what you want, no matter what, even at the expense of someone else, then you're in for a lifetime of disappointment.

And bear in mind, if and when they figure out a way to get the unrated battleground queue to handle matchmaking effectively for groups of larger than five, which is what we've been told is the thing stopping them from just removing the restriction, they will not be the easy, casual games you're used to. They'll have a lot more in common with rated battlegrounds.
12/03/2012 05:50 PMPosted by Dysheki
Being outplayed because you're of a lower skill is one thing, but to be equal skill and get taken to town because people are coordinating things is another. It's not really that fair and that's why the compromise of allowing a small group into random BGs is there while keeping shy of allowing full raids.


Dysheki, yes, you've made it very clear that you
can't stand warcraft, the coordination that takes
place in the battlegrounds. you think it's unfair.

although, you are speaking out of both sides of
your neck so i probably shouldn't listen to any of it.

Cheers.
Pleb.
12/03/2012 05:02 PMPosted by Dysheki
war games give no rewards at all.

Do it for the fun! I did some all druid war games, had a blast.

(also, large scale war is world pvp, pretty easy to find these days with CRZ)


You think large cordinated 40 man groups belong out in the world, killing random players but not in a BG?

and you called me a troll?

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