Frost bomb>chaosbolt

Arenas
12/05/2012 03:04 PMPosted by Raw
you do know frost bomb only hits hard because people pop their trinkets,icy veins and everything while the target is frozen right?


Icy Veins doesn't even affect frost bomb; it's only their on use trinket which affects it. You don't even need the trinket to hit very hard with frost bomb. Destruction NEEDS dark soul and its on use to crit for over 100k.


So you can't hit two people with frost bomb?

2m 40s cd on that. Mages can use PoM frost bomb if it's really that big of a deal, and PoM is a shorter CD.

If you're geared correctly, Frost Bomb will always crit as well if you have the target frozen.

Also:

Frost Bomb doesn't even require cooldowns to hit hard. Warlocks need to pop a two minute cooldown for Chaos Bolt to almost hit as hard as frost bomb.

Clearly, frost bomb is better than chaos bolt.


you do know frost bomb only hits hard because people pop their trinkets,icy veins and everything while the target is frozen right?

we can argue about which is better, but i consider them both extremely good and even.

except i never seen a frost bomb hit more then 200k


Except it doesn't.

After surviving a frost mage's burst CDs (Images, Orb, trinket, Veins) by rather liberal use of every possible CC I could come up with (Paralysis for full duration into root to draw blink, FSK into FoF for full stun then Spear Hand silence to round it out).. I was doing fairly well vs this frost mage in WSG.

And then after he kited me for ~30 seconds after I trinketed the first deep he landed (deflected the first one, <3 Glyph of Sparring).

Deep Freeze
Frostbomb 196k
Frostfire Bolt 92k
Ice Lance 70k
Ice Lance 70k

Here's the fun part: I ate this with Touch of Karma. He just threw up IB and ate the DoT (lol 100k damage 'reflected' off 420k damage taken) and it still broke Karma with the last Lance (used Fort Brew first).

So.. cue being polymorphed 3x (I had the flag, rest of my team was busy keeping the rest of his team busy) into another dance around. Landed another CC chain while I was working my health back up with Expel + Chi Wave bounces.. 30 seconds later.

Frostbomb 184k
Frostfire Bolt 89k
Icelance 68k
Icelance 71k
&Dead.

I played One. Hundred. Percent. Defensive. The entire time. I ate one freecast bomb with Zen Meditation to nullify it(timing it so I was in Zen Med less than a full second, just long enough for it to tick crit for 9k [fun fact, zen med is -90% on spells] and then on the move again to avoid the CS, which he used anyway about 2 seconds after I dropped Zen Med), I flung another one back onto him with Diffuse Magic and it didn't even break his Ice Barrier when it went off.

I was playing to do everything i could to avoid his burst and create a window where I could maintain my health. I knew I wouldn't catch him long enough to kill him, so I was playing for time. I had no choice but to do so because lolwindwalker against Fist-of-An-Angry-God Spec'd Mage.

A frost mage is capable of killing someone every time Deep Freeze is off cooldown.

Every thirty seconds, a Frost Mage is capable of either killing you outright due to hitting whatever lights up like a retarded version of high-res Simon Says.. or of forcing you to use every single defensive cooldown you have to avoid it just so he can skeet on you half a minute later when there's nothing else you can do about it.

This is not balance. This is not fair. This is not fun.

I would rather have S1 Arms/Holy, S4 4/4 Glaives & Mace Stun, S5 Ret/DK, S6 Beastcleave, S7/S8 Wizards, S9 Warriors *AND* S11 Rogues AT THE SAME TIME IN THE SAME SEASON than this.


you do know frost bomb only hits hard because people pop their trinkets,icy veins and everything while the target is frozen right?

we can argue about which is better, but i consider them both extremely good and even.

except i never seen a frost bomb hit more then 200k


Except it doesn't.

After surviving a frost mage's burst CDs (Images, Orb, trinket, Veins) by rather liberal use of every possible CC I could come up with (Paralysis for full duration into root to draw blink, FSK into FoF for full stun then Spear Hand silence to round it out).. I was doing fairly well vs this frost mage in WSG.

And then after he kited me for ~30 seconds after I trinketed the first deep he landed (deflected the first one, <3 Glyph of Sparring).

Deep Freeze
Frostbomb 196k
Frostfire Bolt 92k
Ice Lance 70k
Ice Lance 70k

Here's the fun part: I ate this with Touch of Karma. He just threw up IB and ate the DoT (lol 100k damage 'reflected' off 420k damage taken) and it still broke Karma with the last Lance (used Fort Brew first).

So.. cue being polymorphed 3x (I had the flag, rest of my team was busy keeping the rest of his team busy) into another dance around. Landed another CC chain while I was working my health back up with Expel + Chi Wave bounces.. 30 seconds later.

Frostbomb 184k
Frostfire Bolt 89k
Icelance 68k
Icelance 71k
&Dead.


I will call it.

BULL!@#$.

You... have never been hit by a 180k frostbomb

....

...

...

unless you had 0 resil.

Frostbomb is OP no lie, mage alt I have has crit someone with no resil in a BG (silvershard) for 237k.

That said, against a target with resil, about 120k + 25k fireblast = 145k.

The OP part of mages, IMO is the Frozen Orb, deep somone in that they take 30-40k dps, thats way to much. Mages in a deep cant usually solo you unless this is up, and yes. There is only one part of the game to control a Mage, and when someone is deep, The time is then.

I dont like How strong mages are but they are also a product of what the game is, and that is a game set around burst and not casting.

I think more classes should be like mages, have a mini-kill setup once per 30-45 seconds.

Instead of insta gib one shot once per 2 mins

I also want frost bomb toned down, but the biggest part is this

DISMEMBER FROST (ORB) from pvp this is damage people dont normally pay attention to in the logs, and its between 30-40k a sec to someone deep, 120-160k over the duration.

THIS IS NOT OKAY.

because this pally is undergeared and the most I have ever been hit my a frost bomb was a 2's game at like 1700 something MMR (2), and I got put against a frost mage and was hit by a bomb for 155k and He had all cds and orb on me, I should trinketed or bubbled or pre walled but I later armoried the guy, Full t2.

But, dont lie and say you got hit for 200k with resil

That said, not OK with the damage but ever class does it, some classes cough warriors can do over 100k with about every more in the arsenal, hell even heroic leap hits for 80k
Damage flattened out
12/05/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Dupree
That said, against a target with resil, about 120k + 25k fireblast = 145k.


Fire Blast crits for 45-50k. Frost Bomb usually hits me for around 140-160k. Then Frost Bomb procs a free Frostfire Bolt which can crit anywhere from 100k-160k depending on the circumstances. I highest Frostfire Bolt crit against me has been 170k, and that was before 5.1 (thus before the PvP power weapon buff). At the time, I was in full Dreadful with maybe a piece or two of Malevolent.

12/05/2012 03:55 PMPosted by Dupree
I think more classes should be like mages, have a mini-kill setup once per 30-45 seconds.


I sort of agree. I don't like how the burst set up is at the moment.

That said, not OK with the damage but ever class does it, some classes cough warriors can do over 100k with about every more in the arsenal, hell even heroic leap hits for 80k
Damage flattened out


I think the main point of this thread is that, yeah, all classes can do it, but mages can do it every time Frost Bomb is up. It's pretty ridiculous.
Is this a "Dont nerf me bro, nerf this guy" thread?
Chaos bolt is easier to stop. The thing about mages is that they get their damage off SAFER than locks do. Please don't LoS/range me bro...mages are like Deep gg. We have a lot less control with our burst.
12/05/2012 04:51 PMPosted by Çranky
That said, against a target with resil, about 120k + 25k fireblast = 145k.


Fire Blast crits for 45-50k. Frost Bomb usually hits me for around 140-160k. Then Frost Bomb procs a free Frostfire Bolt which can crit anywhere from 100k-160k depending on the circumstances. I highest Frostfire Bolt crit against me has been 170k, and that was before 5.1 (thus before the PvP power weapon buff). At the time, I was in full Dreadful with maybe a piece or two of Malevolent.

I think more classes should be like mages, have a mini-kill setup once per 30-45 seconds.


I sort of agree. I don't like how the burst set up is at the moment.

That said, not OK with the damage but ever class does it, some classes cough warriors can do over 100k with about every more in the arsenal, hell even heroic leap hits for 80k
Damage flattened out


I think the main point of this thread is that, yeah, all classes can do it, but mages can do it every time Frost Bomb is up. It's pretty ridiculous.
\

Your math concludes LAUGHABLY

You are saying Mages can literally 3 global people, they do a TON of damage, but lets be honest here.

They dont, their damage is absurd, and your Frost Fire Bolt number is way off its about 80k max, my mage I think (full malevolent no t2) is about 65k
I will call it.

BULL!@#$.

You... have never been hit by a 180k frostbomb


It doesn't happen often but its very possible with tier 2 weapons. Even 200k happens occasionally.
I will call it.

BULL!@#$.

You... have never been hit by a 180k frostbomb


It doesn't happen often but its very possible with tier 2 weapons. Even 200k happens occasionally.


riiiiight....

Now, I was grinding pvp gear in WSG today after getting panda express a week or 2 ago, so half my stuff had resil, the rest was mostly heroic dungeon stuff. But anyways, Guy runs up and hits me for over 300K on a frostbomb. Yea, he probably had berserking, (and no I wasnt carrying the flag)but still.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/wowscrnshot120512175528.jpg/

btw he was using tier 1 wep


It doesn't happen often but its very possible with tier 2 weapons. Even 200k happens occasionally.


riiiiight....

now, I was grinding pvp gear is WSG today after getting panda express a week or 2 ago, so half my stuff had resil, the rest was mostly heroic dungeon stuff. But anyways, Guy runs up and hits me for over 300K. Yea, he probably had berserking, but still.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/wowscrnshot120512175528.jpg/


Berserking, plus the fact you had low resil, not defending, but I even said in my post I have crit someone (no zerking) that had 0 resil (I armoried him later) for 237k

that hit is about where mine woulda been with zerking, and im not t2.

take 30% off for zerking and then account for 100% resil gear (if you havent done that yet HUGE difference) and the fact he is Human + i think 7% damage

Like I said, Frost bomb isnt too high, but its not blasting people with 65% resil for 200k

;D not trying to sound like an !@#$%^-, It is really high but there are people here with very fictional numbers, maybe its PTSD after what happened.

Someone higher up claimed a nearly 200k frost fire bolt.

With 200k frost bombs.

That.... isnt even close to true.

Frost bomb hurts, I think my mage has dealt a 188k in 2s pretty sure the poor sap didnt have any gear (I just swapped him as he was mr.clean R. Druid) and 3 shot him.

Thats not cool and he I guarantee didnt have any gear.

However.

Blizz isn't going to take any legit concern if we continue to act like children

YO BLIZZ THIS MAGE HIT ME FOR 200k FROST BOMB INTO 200K FROST FIRE BOLT INTO 200k icelance

Blizz first thought, clearly lying, looks away.

Its crazy.

However for reference, the same guy i hit with a 188k frost bomb druid (I dont think i saw a piece of pvp gear on him def no weapon) I hit for 108k frost fire bolt (I have the screenshot)

So any claims of ERMAH GERD 170k frost fire bolt like posted earlier in the thread. Will be laughed at.
12/05/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Dupree
They dont, their damage is absurd, and your Frost Fire Bolt number is way off its about 80k max, my mage I think (full malevolent no t2) is about 65k


http://i45.tinypic.com/30lcktg.png

Check my resilience. I shouldn't be getting crit for that high. In before berserking/flag carrier debuff: he/I had neither.

http://i48.tinypic.com/35mpgg2.png

That was in an arena. The mage had no CDs popped.

12/05/2012 07:54 PMPosted by Dupree
So any claims of ERMAH GERD 170k frost fire bolt like posted earlier in the thread. Will be laughed at.


Screenshotted above for proof.

EDIT: Someone also posted in another thread http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320532321
My guess.

5.0 patch, he stole your dark soul
My guess.

5.0 patch, he stole your dark soul


I am affliction and destro. Misery increases haste, Instability increases crit. Nope.

Also, what about the second link? That was a Spriest.
My guess.

5.0 patch, he stole your dark soul


I am affliction and destro. Misery increases haste, Instability increases crit. Nope.

Also, what about the second link? That was a Spriest.


Definitely the hit on the spriest was crazy, im just saying SOMETHING was up in that 170k frostfire bolt, I do about half that with CD's popped.

Watch any mage stream I recall watching venruki and on lvl 12 wolfs his brain freeze ffbs are 108k pve lvl 12

170k is nuts.

http://i.imgur.com/esA3g.jpg

Here is a pic of my mage capping out a buddy of mines alt, he had like no gear so we were like 1500 mmr ish, and faced a resto druid

180k frostbomb, the druid had no resil

look at my recount, 108k frost fire bolt, to the same target.

Are you still gonna say FFB is 170k

To adjust the numbers my frostbomb woulda detonated over 300k with the amount of mastery/sp needed to get 170k from 108k

I am not defending Mage damage, its pretty evident from that log, albeit on an unresiled target.

This was the only time in arena i had a FFB break 90k much less 100k

Edit: Apparently it was a holy pally, point still stands, No resil.


Except it doesn't.

After surviving a frost mage's burst CDs (Images, Orb, trinket, Veins) by rather liberal use of every possible CC I could come up with (Paralysis for full duration into root to draw blink, FSK into FoF for full stun then Spear Hand silence to round it out).. I was doing fairly well vs this frost mage in WSG.

And then after he kited me for ~30 seconds after I trinketed the first deep he landed (deflected the first one, <3 Glyph of Sparring).

Deep Freeze
Frostbomb 196k
Frostfire Bolt 92k
Ice Lance 70k
Ice Lance 70k

Here's the fun part: I ate this with Touch of Karma. He just threw up IB and ate the DoT (lol 100k damage 'reflected' off 420k damage taken) and it still broke Karma with the last Lance (used Fort Brew first).

So.. cue being polymorphed 3x (I had the flag, rest of my team was busy keeping the rest of his team busy) into another dance around. Landed another CC chain while I was working my health back up with Expel + Chi Wave bounces.. 30 seconds later.

Frostbomb 184k
Frostfire Bolt 89k
Icelance 68k
Icelance 71k
&Dead.


I will call it.

BULL!@#$.

You... have never been hit by a 180k frostbomb

....

...

...

unless you had 0 resil.

Frostbomb is OP no lie, mage alt I have has crit someone with no resil in a BG (silvershard) for 237k.

That said, against a target with resil, about 120k + 25k fireblast = 145k.

The OP part of mages, IMO is the Frozen Orb, deep somone in that they take 30-40k dps, thats way to much. Mages in a deep cant usually solo you unless this is up, and yes. There is only one part of the game to control a Mage, and when someone is deep, The time is then.

I dont like How strong mages are but they are also a product of what the game is, and that is a game set around burst and not casting.

I think more classes should be like mages, have a mini-kill setup once per 30-45 seconds.

Instead of insta gib one shot once per 2 mins

I also want frost bomb toned down, but the biggest part is this

DISMEMBER FROST (ORB) from pvp this is damage people dont normally pay attention to in the logs, and its between 30-40k a sec to someone deep, 120-160k over the duration.

THIS IS NOT OKAY.

because this pally is undergeared and the most I have ever been hit my a frost bomb was a 2's game at like 1700 something MMR (2), and I got put against a frost mage and was hit by a bomb for 155k and He had all cds and orb on me, I should trinketed or bubbled or pre walled but I later armoried the guy, Full t2.

But, dont lie and say you got hit for 200k with resil

That said, not OK with the damage but ever class does it, some classes cough warriors can do over 100k with about every more in the arsenal, hell even heroic leap hits for 80k
Damage flattened out


So I have about 60% resil. Last week in arena sometime, I played a RMD in the tol'vir arena. Things were going well, I was at about 95% health with die by the sword up, rogue in front of me and out of stealth. All of a sudden I get deeped, and about 1.5 seconds later I'm dead. My healer goes "Umm...what just happened?"

I look at my combat log:

170k Frost Bomb
54k Fire Blast
108 Frostfire Bolt

170k + 54k + 108k = 332k damage. By the mage alone, in the time it takes to Fire Blast and Frostfire Bolt. You see, it wasn't that my healer failed to dispel me, it wasn't that I didn't go defensive enough, it's the fact that a mage BY HIMSELF was able to deal 100% of my unbuffed hp to me in damage in the window of his ranged blanket silence. What make this worse?

It's pretty much unavoidable. Deep is a 4 second stun, instant, can be used on unfrozen targets with FoF procs, and the glyph takes it off GCD. It's the best stun in the game. Counterspell is a ranged interrupt on a 20 second CD with a 4 second blanket silence attached to it. It's the best interrupt in the game. Frost bomb shatters do basically unhealable damage, and are available every 30 seconds. To say that there's any setup time to it is a joke, I have a mage. Casting frost bomb into a deep freeze, fireblasting, and spamming ice lance isn't hard. You know what's hard? Surviving mongoloid frost mages who can global you on accident every 30 seconds.

I should know, doing 2s on my mage at the beginning of the season with horrid gear, I had several matches where I accidently solo'd somebody because frost bomb is that broken. It's not just frost bomb though, it's a combination of mages having the best stun, the best interrupt and the best burst all in one spec, and available every 30 seconds. Saying that mages need all of their cds to kill anyone is a joke.
I said, and will say repeatedly, MAGE burst IS OP.

In that post, had you read it, would have read that I had said, remove Frost Orb from pvp, as a 30k per second dot tick is not needed, and bring frost bomb down.

I actually proposed nerfs, and man T2 weapon must be that huge of an upgrade because 180k to my mage is someone with no resil.

and Best Burst, still belongs to arms warriors.

I got 260k heroic strike by a warrior the other day, since the tfb nerf.

With a 80k heroic leap preceeding it.

However.

Calm down, the Deep Freeze glyph needs to be fire/arcane only because of the need for them to deep instantly since they dont have FoF or pet freeze Frost doesn't needed.

Best stun in the game tho? Gonna have to disagree, I think most mages would trade 30 second CD dispellable stun for a 20 second undispellable in shockwave... Thats an AOE stun.

Granted it increases damage which I always found BS and we need a mastery rework.

Counter Spell needs back its 24 second CD, keep the blanket for now. Since every cast in this game is instant.

----

Again I am not defending mages, there are a couple high frostbombs here, and those need to get toned down, but maybe by 30-40% and removal of frozen orb and it will be fine.

More classes need to be like mages (ONCE BURST IS TONED) because 2 min wait on kills is boring as hell
Frost QQ thread?

Must be about Death Knights better nerf them.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum