Is anyone using Wild Mushrooms: Bloom?

The only time I consistently use them is Elegon for when the protectors blow up, since all our ranged and heals are stacked on the very edge of the platform. There's plenty of other times it'd theoretically be useful (the hunter up above listed a fair number), but in practice I either don't have the GCDs to spare because others are taking too much damage, or I don't know exactly where the raid will be and it's a waste of time. Or the damage just isn't intense enough to need that tiny bit of payoff to get through.

There's a lot of ways they could be improved. Make them bloom automatically a few seconds after being placed, have them pulse for healing over time, or just plain up the mana cost and healing done (and perhaps the cooldown) to make it a more worthwhile burst.
A lot of people underestimate the value of bloom for resto, but i can tell you 100% that it should be used in place where there is predictable raid wide damage and you can hit a large chunk of your raid. This is more evident in 25m then 10m for sure, but none the less should be used. Bloom is one of our best HPM spells we have (in 25 man at least), as others have said 200k-250k healing for something like 6k mana is not something ill pass up.

Further more, looking at top druid healing parses for heroic 25 mans. a quick look at WoL show that EVERY SINGLE top druid parse in heroic 25 MV used bloom at least once during the fight (for all 6 fights) and most for heroic 10. topping out with the highest parse for heroic 25m Will with a whopping 569 direct heals from bloom accounting for just over 6% of his healing done. (ended with 87.6k hps btw)

Though each individual heal per raid member is relatively low, but in a 25 man with HR's, CoH, WG's, and the like going out these numbers add up. This plus the fact that nourish is no longer mana neutral means that resto druids are no longer GCD locked allows enough time to set up at times that require relatively low healing. It wont ever be one of our top or most used heals, but ignoring any part of your toolkit isn't wise.

TL:DR - yes, bloom is worth using though it could use some love and is very situational.
10M raids have little use for Wild Mushrooms, 25M raids tend to have slight more use for them since there are more people and if stacked, mushrooms heal a decent amount.
I find that the mechanic for placing and blooming mushrooms to be a little too clunky to use them consistently. It is much more of a time-killer for me to place the shrooms when there is no healing that needs to go out, but I nearly always forget to bloom them >.<
12/03/2012 08:18 AMPosted by Schly
I find that the mechanic for placing and blooming mushrooms to be a little too clunky to use them consistently.

I agree with this. It's been stated before that Wild Mushrooms should just spawn all 3 mushrooms at once, which I think is a good Idea, given that there is a consistent arrangement for getting the best damage/healing in raids. Spawning 3 mushrooms in a triangular arrangement ~15yds apart from each other would give a nice AoE while still allowing for overlapped healing at the center. I don't know if this would be ideal for PvP, but I haven't heard anyone come forth and say they even use mushrooms in PvP. Blizz could add a cast time to make up for GCDs not being used, or make this a glyph. E.G. 4.5 sec cast (before haste), may be cast while moving.
Just for the record, the GCD on mushroom placement is 1.0 seconds, so it would be a better 3 second cast. Honestly, one could argue that losing the flexibility in placing would be worth just making it an instant on the standard 1.5 second GCD, maybe in conjunction with putting the bloom on the GCD too. One of the (few) good things about mushrooms, both for balance and resto, is being able to place them while moving, and whatever the solution to their weakness, I wouldn't want to give that up.

I really don't expect them to change as far as healing output. They seem marginally useful in 25's (and all signs point at Blizzard wanting them to be marginally useful, not something that makes it into the regular rotation). They're really not even needed in 10's.
I think there are two main problems with the mushrooms from my limited raiding experience.

#1: It's a total of 6 seconds to cast for extremely little healing per person. It's 3 GCDs per
mushroom plus the "detonate" GCD. {Edit: Assuming 1.5 second cooldown so even new players are included.}

If you're in a raiding situation where you need to heal the entire raid (which seems to be the goal of this spell), it needs to be an amount greater than just a 'top off' spell. This means that all the healers are spamming their smart heals at this critical time and people are probably in danger of death, so you're better spent providing less people with larger heals.

In any situation I've felt it contributes more to use Wild Growth than the mushrooms just because of the individual healing total.

#2. It's impractical in most raiding situations. The mushrooms are planted on the ground and are immobile from there. Most raids require movement and frequently sections of the raids split out. If Group #1 takes damage, but Group #2 is where you set your mushrooms, you've wasted healing potential. If you set 1 mushroom at Group #1 and another mushroom at Group #2, you've still wasted healing potential.

Now you have to spend 4.5 seconds setting up your mushrooms again, if you have the luxury of time to do so (which depends on the encounter, and if you're in a difficult encounter or have a bad group, this spells is no longer viable). But the individual heal quantity is so small that it just generally isn't worth it.

If HP pools were smaller, I think this spell would be amazing. But it contributes so little that for the setup time and positioning requirements, it's just an extra button on my action bar wasting space.

There are a lot of ways to improve this spell, I think. Here's a few suggestions:

#1 - Just increase the healing quantity flat. If necessary, make it a smart heal that heals less people.

#2 - Make the mushrooms grow in strength over time. If we were to place them down and use them immediately, they would heal very little. But say for each minute that expires, they increase in strength by X%. This encourages planning and makes them stronger.

#3 - To improve the movement issue, make the healing area a triangle between the three mushrooms. Anyone within this triangle would receive the healing.

#4 - Provide an additional buff along with the healing, say an increase in movement speed. This already happens for Moonkin where it provides a slowing to enemies, but for Resto it would provide the opposite.

#5 - Instead of being detonated, Mushrooms could be an AOE pulse heal for a still small amount. This could eliminate the detonation spell and streamline the ability.
12/03/2012 04:36 AMPosted by Yokai
Further more, looking at top druid healing parses for heroic 25 mans. a quick look at WoL show that EVERY SINGLE top druid parse in heroic 25 MV used bloom at least once during the fight (for all 6 fights) and most for heroic 10.

This is where I have the problem with the spell though.

Why should we want an ability we will use once per fight? How many spells exist across all classes in this game that are only used once per fight? Heroism/Battle-Rez are the only ones I can think off off the top of my head. Even I usually manage to get Innervate off more than once in a lot of fights.

And then an ability that requires a 6 seconds to cast (3 GCD per mushroom and an additional GCD for detonate) and contributes significantly less than once-per-fight-spells like Heroism?

I'm not arguing at all that it is mana efficient and situationally very useful. I agree with you there, but I think that is not a good enough reason to want to keep it. To me, the fact that top-end raids are using this spell once-per-fight is just proof that attributes to how poor this spell is.

In my opinion, a spell that is used once-per-fight should be a game-changer spell - a spell like battle-rez or Heroism. Mushrooms are not limited to once-per-fight like other spells, yet they are only being used once-per-fight, and in my opinion that's because of the clunky utility and low individual heal output.

Further more, looking at top druid healing parses for heroic 25 mans. a quick look at WoL show that EVERY SINGLE top druid parse in heroic 25 MV used bloom at least once during the fight... It wont ever be one of our top or most used heals, but ignoring any part of your toolkit isn't wise.

The issue I have with this argument, and indeed, the spell itself is that using a spell just because it's there and we can just seems like bad design. Many people are bringing up the clunky set up mechanics, the difficulty in placement, and the wasted effort when it doesn't even work! I believe Blizz gave us this spell to use, and I for one want to use it. However, I also believe that any spell should have a desirable payoff for being used correctly. As it stands, WM is a pain in the !@# to use and the pay off is often null. Even if it is meant to be a small AoE heal, IT SHOULD ACTUALLY HEAL if Blizzard wants us to make use of this spell.

I still think WM has potential, and I hope Blizzard will work with the players to make this a fun-to-use design. After all, this is just a game. It should always be fun.
I was very anti-mushroom however I've learned (and am learning still) to better utilize them. I only run 25 mans and we are on heroic bosses (6/6H and 2/6H).

We killed heroic Will of the Emperor last night and it's a very good fight for shrooms. Constant ticks of gas the whole fight, ranged mostly stacked in the center, plus casting 3 mushrooms fit nicely into my rotation for most of the fight.

Below is my WoL for the kill and you can see shrooms were 6.3% of my heals. Not bad I would say. I found myself messing up by blooming them too soon when there was little to no dmg on the group. It's a work in progress.

Mushrooms are FAR FROM PERFECT and I think they are still a pain in the !@# but as I said I'm learning to use them more effectively.

I hate that sometimes they each hit for 3-5K (affected by diminishing returns if all 25 people get hit) because really what is 3K on 450K hp... Remember when efflourescence ticked for 300 on 100K hp? Feels just as useless. While they won't really save lives over time they can do a significant amount of healing. If they did to shrooms what they did to fix efflourescence (ie heal for the same amount, but heal less people for more) then to me that goes a long way to being useful (and maybe saving lives).

They are a great mana conservation (while still healing somewhat) kind of tool. On a 12 minute fight like WoTE they helped stretch mana.

With Resto Druids feeling rather weak this tier, you need to adapt and use everything squeeze what hps you can out of the tools we have.

BTW, I'm near 100% certain that bloom is off the GCD so for those saying it costs 6 seconds, it's really only 3 GCD's to lay them and then bloom and instantly you can cast another spell. Test it out (I will to confirm).

I do try to use them on other fights but there are few where they work as well as WoTE. Feng is generally good although I find it clunky and rushed a lot of times between mechanics.

For anyone interested in the logs from this kill:

I frapsed it as well and can post the video once it's ready if you want to see shrooms in action.

Spell Healing done Hits
# Avg Total
Wild Growth 13490382 31.10% -
Rejuvenation 9249833 21.30% -
Swiftmend 5981980 13.80% 650 6628.8 4308733
Lifebloom 4770243 11.00% -
Tranquility 3127552 7.20% 32 40104.9 1283358
Wild Mushroom: Bloom 2742027 6.30% 773 2564.1 1982063
Regrowth 2438446 5.60% -
Swiftmend 758943 1.80% 29 14692.2 426074
Lifebloom 562894 1.30% 36 12105.2 435786
Living Seed 190219 0.40% 5 38043.8 190219
Healing Touch 46762 0.10% 1 46762 46762
BTW, I'm near 100% certain that bloom is off the GCD so for those saying it costs 6 seconds, it's really only 3 GCD's to lay them and then bloom and instantly you can cast another spell. Test it out (I will to confirm).

I think the actual time versus the theoretical time is a big issue.

Let's consider the bare minimum time requirement that the spell takes. If a person has all the gear to get their GCD on a 1 second cooldown and bloom doesn't have an associated GCD (I don't know whether it does or not.) then the spell is a total of 4.5 seconds maximum. But this is the absolute optimal cast time that a robot if playing would be able to use.

Let's look at the realistic cast time. A user hits the mushroom button and they are prompted to position the mushroom. The user determines the best area by evaluating the screen to see where the majority of people currently are or where they will be in the future depending on the fight. The users places the mushroom in that position and the global cooldown triggers.

For a skillful player, that is probably a total of 2 seconds (including the GCD) to place and cast the mushroom. For an unskilled player who is unsure of proper placement, it could be as high as 3 seconds per mushroom. I highly doubt the majority of players have such a quick reaction ability to be able to place the mushroom immediately to eliminate the .5 additional seconds of placement time.

The you've got the added issue of the the detonate. Maybe there is no GCD, but there's still basic human delay. That's a part of why the GCD exists (along with server latency) is to not punish players for their humanness. Assuming human delay is .5 seconds between hitting detonate and casting the next spell, that's still a factor in the cast time because the player could be casting Wild Growth or another spell.

Again, I will state that no one is arguing that this spell cannot be used and cannot be good in situation areas. It can be and has been, but even on the best fights that are suited towards the spell, it's still coming up 6% or less of our healing? That's pretty incredibly small for a basically raid-wide spell that requires at best 5 seconds (1.5 per mushroom, .5 for detonate of human reaction) cast speed.
Placing a Mushroom is a 1-second GCD no matter what your gear is. (Same as Rejuv.) In practice, it does take a little more than 3 seconds to place them all, but it's somewhere between 3.5 and 5 seconds.

Blooming them incurs no GCD at all. You can macro Bloom together with your other spells. I've got it macroed with Wild Growth -- so I'm pressing the exact same buttons I've always been pressing, but having the mushrooms there increases my maximum HPS I can burst.
They come in handy for stacking points in the Feng and Elegon encounters, but overall they feel pretty useless.
I only use them on a couple of fights where we have pre-determined stack points. They help a little but are still kind of weak. I usually wait for a time where I have a couple seconds to plant them. I use them on feng, garajal, spirit kings on madness stack, and when titan gas pops and we stack on wote. Havent done much in HoF yet on normal, but they are not completely useless but I do think they need some type of buff.

Possibly something similar to effervessence (sp?) when they bloom. When you pop them they do the same healing as they do now but instead of a slowing circle it should be a healing circle that puts out the same amount of healing as the bloom but over time. I think that may make it more useful. Also make it a cluster of sorts, all 3 cds in one move with three mushrooms planted. But increase the radius to something like healing rain to make up for the lack of placement options with all three. I think this would make it extremely viable and give druids some burst aoe, which I think is needed.
I do not.
Imperial Vizier Zor'lok during force and verve (the melee bubble).
Blade Lord Ta'yak (if you put your backs to a pillar during unsceen strike, otherwise no).

There is soo much damage going on in these fights that throwing down mushrooms will most likely result in someone dying. So no, you are wrong here.

While I won't be making great used of mushrooms during blade lord, I will definitely mushroom during Force and Verve. There is so little damage happening during Zor'lok that I can spend much of the time pretending to be a boomkin.

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