Another Affliction PvP thread!

Warlock
There are countless threads regarding overhauling abilities for Affliction in PvP to make it a spec we can play effectively in 3v3/RBGs (or any general PvP). I haven't really seen anyone mention something more simple however:

Would it not be possible to just increase the benefit of PvP power for Affliction Warlocks specifically? PvP Power was created in some ways to keep PvP more balanced, why not use it to do just that? It would have no effect on the damage of PvE warlocks, and take the currently 100% healable damage of passive affliction dots, and make them something strong again. (PvP Power damage of MG\MG dots could be scaled differently to avoid SB\SS\DS\MG mega-burst).

Regardless of how/if affliction is changed, please bring it back to the PvP community!
the only way is to improve the dot damage, there is no other way, dots are too dependant of malefic grasp, making dots transfered from soul swap useless.

And affliction have good tools to make good in pvp, kiting, movement, but needs more non dependant damage.
That's exactly what I'm saying. The specs survival and everything is on par with with other three specs, it may not seem that way, but because any team facing a warlock is never under real pressure from the warlock, they never have to go defensive. Increasing the PvP power coefficient for Affliction would be the most simple, fastest, most painless way to bring Affliction back to the hands of the PvP community.
The problem is dispelling, not damage. Affliction does fantastic damage.
12/04/2012 05:05 PMPosted by Insanovich
The problem is dispelling, not damage. Affliction does fantastic damage.


You sir do not understand the implications of channeling in PvP.

It is the direct link between how Malific's Grasp inflates dot damage. Yes affliction does fantastic damage when they can channel. But their dots are not that great and are healed through when no haunt or MG is up.

This is the reason Affliction cannot compete with other classes, they just do not have the tools to compete. No afflock is going to power through a warrior's second wind. No afflock is going to kill a healer. No afflock is going to kill a decent melee before they get killed.

MG is the culprit of killing off afflock's pvp viability.
The problem is dispelling, not damage. Affliction does fantastic damage.


You sir do not understand the implications of channeling in PvP.

It is the direct link between how Malific's Grasp inflates dot damage. Yes affliction does fantastic damage when they can channel. But their dots are not that great and are healed through when no haunt or MG is up.

This is the reason Affliction cannot compete with other classes, they just do not have the tools to compete. No afflock is going to power through a warrior's second wind. No afflock is going to kill a healer. No afflock is going to kill a decent melee before they get killed.

MG is the culprit of killing off afflock's pvp viability.


For me personally, it's the fact that dispelling UA has no penalty. You dispel UA, get silenced for 2 seconds, laugh as the Afflock just burnt soul shards, and you heal straight back through the damage once the silence is over.
12/04/2012 05:33 PMPosted by Baelis
The problem is dispelling, not damage. Affliction does fantastic damage.


You sir do not understand the implications of channeling in PvP.

It is the direct link between how Malific's Grasp inflates dot damage. Yes affliction does fantastic damage when they can channel. But their dots are not that great and are healed through when no haunt or MG is up.

This is the reason Affliction cannot compete with other classes, they just do not have the tools to compete. No afflock is going to power through a warrior's second wind. No afflock is going to kill a healer. No afflock is going to kill a decent melee before they get killed.

MG is the culprit of killing off afflock's pvp viability.


^this

And we need soul shard for other skills to have a chance of survival in pvp, we have demonic circle, soul swap, summon pet. Dots should be more independent.
^^ like they used to be. why blizz made casting spells required shards just gives me a headache
4p allows soul shard to return when dispelled.

Fixed.
Or faster shard regen.

And ffs let us rez with full shards in bgs.
Maybe start with being able to use MG on the run, and making Nightfall reduce Haunt's casting time by 100%. Also, perhaps if Haunt is already on the target, the application of Haunt from Nightfall would add a fourth DoT to the target.
This is completely derailed from my original post - I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but the suggestion was to increase the benefit of PvP power for Affliction to increase the damage of dots against players. You would still be able to channel MG for increased burst, but the benefit of PvP power on MG dots would not be as strong as it is in contrast to the non MG dots (MG dots would do more damage, but not so much that it gibs someone).

There is a fun little thing called a "coefficient" which can directly effect the amount of damage or healing done based on the number used to multiply. Anyone who plays a hybrid has recently directly experienced the effect of a coefficient change with hybrid damage or healing in relation to PvP power.

Affliction warlocks have no Really changed at their core since Cata, increasing their passive damage would take them back to what they were previously. The playstyle is the same, the damage is just too low. Anyone who says they do great damage - true their damage at the end of a game is high, but under the current meta game model, it is all healable damage. Any DK will tell you the same thing. They do outstanding overall damage, but it's all healable damage because it is over time, and passive/aoe healing out heals the damage done.

You are currently required burst for a kill, you can not rot health in the same way you could in cata or wrath. Further increased passive damage would allow Affliction to rot health, and potentially oom healers, rather than being healed up passively by one hot.

This isn't supposed to be a debate about other ways to make affliction stronger, but thanks for reading if you made it this far through my wall of text.
12/05/2012 06:38 AMPosted by Lsx
The problem with Affliction is not the damage, affliction actually does tons of sustained damage.


I'll try some games with affliction again tonight, but as it is now, I couldn't disagree more.

As I explained before, the damage can all be easily healed through. I couldn't kill a warrior in second wind while channeling MG with cooldowns popped if I wanted to, put a healer on him and his health will never even get to second wind range. Increasing the damage we deal through PvP power, mind you, would also increase the damage done to anyone that dispels the dots. That being said, I would gladly welcome UA functioning as "dispel protection" again.

EDIT: I also agree with basically any change to the 4pc bonus to promote better affliction play, but since it's currently not spec specific in any way, I would be surprised to see any change to that. Increased shard/fury/ember gains would be awesome, as would uninterruptible MG channels, with cunning it would be amazing.
12/05/2012 06:38 AMPosted by Lsx
The problem with Affliction is not the damage, affliction actually does tons of sustained damage. The problem is that dispel now dispels everything, UA dispels only do 30-40k, and it stops all of the lock's damage which means it takes another 3-4 seconds to get the dots back up and ticking again. Dispel protection is what we need, or a way to regenerate shards faster that doesn't effect PvE so that we can soulburn swap whenever dots are dispelled.


Lsx you have a little more PvP power than I do so maybe it just gets a lot better at that level or something.

I'm sitting at about 44% PvP Power which I believe is above average for this point in the game. When I put up my 3 main DoTs without channeling MG the damage is literally not even noticeable. I don't think they would out damage a renew from a priest. If I put Haunt up I notice a little HP ticking away but it's still way too low.

Like others have said this just makes it so dependent on MG to put any pressure on which makes us very vulnerable. I agree with the OP, let the DoTs benefit much higher from PvP power even if it means nerfing MG a little in my opinion.
No one cares about your performance in a random battleground.
You can see multiple times, I've said that the damage done is high, but the damage done can be easily -easily- healed through. Your argument is not valid in respect to the suggestion of the thread. I've played a DK extensively this season as well, they do high overall damage, but most of it is not significant. The damage dealt is constantly ticking on all targets, but passive healing and small things like healing steam completely negate your globals spent putting out that damage as a warlock, as a DK you just disease everything almost passively. You constantly hit all targets. I'm sure nobody here can say they have felt they were in trouble just from Dk diseases.

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