Why doesn't Bliz release *full* patch notes?

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11/28/2012 07:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
So it's just coincidence that almost all of the stuff that you "forgot" to put in the patch notes are things that negatively impact the game?


I have a question for you:

Do you really think that we believe that players are happier to find these things out on accident, with no warning? That somehow we think we can slip things by un-detected, when logic, history, and all evidence points to the contrary?

What's the advantage there?


I could imagine! There was such an uproar in the Shaman community that you decided to hide the fact that Ancestral Swiftness was nerfed to a 1.5 min cooldown!

Obviously you hide things from your community even though you say you "Care about" the community.

You hide things in fear of our response. I have yet to see any thread addressed about WHY Shamans were nerfed in the first place!

I would love to see your response but as usual Ill probably get nothing for the fact that I play Blizzard's most hated class in the game.
Daxx, I logged in to say that the Patch Notes in the Launcher are very hard to read. The scroll bar was so small and didn't have a "down" button. Maybe I need a new mouse; I found it very hard to click-drag the tiny scroll bar. True, we can read the same notes on this website, but it would be nice to be able to read them in the Launcher while the game is updating. Thanks.
11/28/2012 08:02 PMPosted by Cordanus
Then why don't the CM's tell people on the forum when they ask about these changes? How many threads were posted about the LFR changes without any answer?

Because it takes time to find the guy who has the answer (who is busy doing his job and may not be available at that second to answer forum questions) as to whether the change was intended or not before an official response can be given.

11/28/2012 08:04 PMPosted by Ishammy
You hide things in fear of our response.

But they'll get the response anyway since players notice when their spells change so I'm not following the logic here...
they could just have major notes on the site and a click here to SEE ALL at the button.
Please revert the change to Blingtron. I looked forward to the days when I got to hit him on multiple alts and was looking forward to when my engineer could make one :(. Today he did not even let any of my characters do the quest. Even doing the quest on multiple characters I have never even seen a single pet from him :(.
The problem is probably that we are all taking about patch notes that date from May 2nd, 2011.
So what else was missed? Apparently Shaman Ancestoral Swiftness was nerfed. I know you can't goblin glide with the flag anymore in non-rated BGs. As I said, Spectral Guise was neutered (even though no one was complaining about it). Dominate Mind (priest) cast time was increased by a whole minute.

What else? Might as well get it all out now.
The idea that a patch is released without the CM's knowing what happened is pretty scary. I guess I'm used to software that requires programmers to document changes they make, and not just throw changes out without letting the people who use it know what's going on.

CM's shouldn't have to research a change to a patch. It should be well documented when it's released.
[quote]but it's not like I'm sitting in front of a bank of monitors each filled with an angry forum thread, stroking a siamese cat and telling my henchmen that they've failed me for the last time.


WHY HAS NOBODY PHOTOSHOPED THIS YET? for reals, get on it people....
11/28/2012 08:03 PMPosted by Hippeaux
Daxx isn't a one-man patch-producing show, he has to rely on the information he can gather to post the notes (as he said in his post, if you read it).

It's not necessarily his fault. You and he are both right in that he can't post what he doesn't know.

However, I think we could all agree that something obviously isn't working here. If he isn't being given all of the information he needs to compile accurate patch notes, well, he should be. And that's really all there is to it.

People might be quick to jump to the conclusion that these changes being omitted was premeditated because there's been some rather questionable communication between Blizz and the players so far this expansion. Take what constitutes as bugs these days-- Quick and the Dead retcon, anniversary letter oopsie, and the Anglers tabard.
11/28/2012 08:11 PMPosted by Gunny

Because it takes time to find the guy who has the answer (who is busy doing his job and may not be available at that second to answer forum questions) as to whether the change was intended or not before an official response can be given.


But they'll get the response anyway since players notice when their spells change so I'm not following the logic here...


That's an easy one. The negative stuff gets parceled out in bits and pieces as players find it, not in one big, wave of negative outcry inducing blue post.

Instead of a consolidated list of things that will collectively piss people off, you let them find it themselves. Then they blow up the class forums first and the overflow into general (where someone on the fence about buying WoW might venture), in minimal.

Trust that they have a business reason behind everything they do and every decision they make.

So your argument seems to be that Blizzard thinks it's a good idea to have a long, steady stream of QQ instead of getting it all at once?

I think the fact that they are a business it what makes me disinclined to believe they are angering players on purpose and then lying to them about it again on purpose even though historically this has always lead to even more anger. Businesses don't tend to anger their customers on purpose, you know?

However, I think we could all agree that something obviously isn't working here. If he isn't being given all of the information he needs to compile accurate patch notes, well, he should be. And that's really all there is to it.


Very much this! Something is wrong and it needs to be fixed.
11/28/2012 08:06 PMPosted by Hippeaux
But they'll get the response anyway since players notice when their spells change so I'm not following the logic here...

Most players do not frequent the forums. Most players won't notice a difference, or if they do, they probably didn't read the patch notes anyway, so they won't notice that it wasn't documented. Many players just skip to the part about their class, if they even read that much.
11/28/2012 08:17 PMPosted by Hippeaux
So your argument seems to be that Blizzard thinks it's a good idea to have a long, steady stream of QQ instead of getting it all at once?

You know how sometimes you sheep/whatever one of the mobs instead of pulling the entire pack at once?

However, I think we could all agree that something obviously isn't working here. If he isn't being given all of the information he needs to compile accurate patch notes, well, he should be. And that's really all there is to it.


Very much this! Something is wrong and it needs to be fixed.


Agreed, as I said its evidence for us AND blizz that changes have been made. Doesn't mean it will change again, it just means when you log on and feel something is different you can trust in the patch notes to tell you exactly what happened, then we have no real argument against Blizz other then a typical QQ one because they did in fact warn us! *sigh* oh well


That's an easy one. The negative stuff gets parceled out in bits and pieces as players find it, not in one big, wave of negative outcry inducing blue post.

Instead of a consolidated list of things that will collectively piss people off, you let them find it themselves. Then they blow up the class forums first and the overflow into general (where someone on the fence about buying WoW might venture), in minimal.

Trust that they have a business reason behind everything they do and every decision they make.

So your argument seems to be that Blizzard thinks it's a good idea to have a long, steady stream of QQ instead of getting it all at once?

I think the fact that they are a business it what makes me disinclined to believe they are angering players on purpose and then lying to them about it again on purpose even though historically this has always lead to even more anger. Businesses don't tend to anger their customers on purpose, you know?


Yes but businesses are there to SATISFY the customers.

Are you satisfied finding a nerf on your class that you were never told about?

Are you satisfied that Blizzard refuses to respond to any threads about nerfs (I.E. SHAMANS)?

Believe me. Im sure as hell not.
11/28/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Daxxarri
The advantage is you can simply ignore addressing the issue like is almost always done with "stealth nerfs." Just change it and not say a word.


I still don't see how that's an advantage. We always have the option of discussing a topic or not. 'Hiding' something would just make people grumpier when it sneaks up on them, which makes it even harder to speak about it in a constructive atmosphere.

I'll be honest: I'm having a hard time picturing how you think things work around here. I admit to having a nice diabolic cackle now and then, but it's not like I'm sitting in front of a bank of monitors each filled with an angry forum thread, stroking a siamese cat and telling my henchmen that they've failed me for the last time.


It's post like this which remind us that the people at blizzard (like us) are only human... and that I'd like to think that everything they do ISN'T done solely to make our lives miserable.
The idea that a patch is released without the CM's knowing what happened is pretty scary. I guess I'm used to software that requires programmers to document changes they make, and not just throw changes out without letting the people who use it know what's going on.
CM's shouldn't have to research a change to a patch. It should be well documented when it's released.


I think this is a big, Big, BIG point.

Nobody at Blizz knows what is being released. They document what they can identify, wait for players to post, then ask around the office, "Hey, did anybody change X?" If nobody pipes up, it must be a bug.

But the fact that deliberate changes are being promoted to production and NOBODY KNOWS about it? That's sloppy.
Yes but businesses are there to SATISFY the customers.

Are you satisfied finding a nerf on your class that you were never told about?

Are you satisfied that Blizzard refuses to respond to any threads about nerfs (I.E. SHAMANS)?

Believe me. Im sure as hell not.


I don't even see Blizz as a business anymore. Businesses in real life do not drastically change things every couple of months. For example the biggest change I ever saw at a fast food joint was new items on the menu.

WoW is a game for us to enjoy... its pure enjoyment. Doing things to alter this enjoyment doesnt make sense - especially getting rid of the simple things. Nerfing classes to balance, I'll leave it to them because I dont have the time to research and balance each class myself, but so far even though I still enjoy the raidings the constant hot fixes have been depressing.

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