I slack on my dailies and raid just fine.

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I never did the dailies either and I'm just fine. I hate dailies, and refuse to do them. I might do them when I level an alt in the future but just for the mounts.
11/30/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Ginx
You're not going to be able to maintain a raid spot in a semi-competitive guild without doing dailies. Judging from the OP's current progression his guild isn't really even semi-competitive and that's not a dig or anything just the truth.
What is semi-competative? Also I fail to see how dailes help you in raiding now.
Also...Being undergeared doesn't waste your raid groups time. Skill>Gear. If you're wasting your raid group's time, its just because you're bad. These raids are easy.
11/30/2012 11:39 AMPosted by Poliwag
You should try being exalted with tillers and wondering if its worth maxing all the individual friends if you feel that way.


I am, and as you see, I'm only good friends with one person. I don't go out of my way to find the dirt to find their "presents". If I grow them or find one, great, otherwise, I'm exalted and growing what I want to. I'm good. :) And Tillers was something I did actually enjoy because if I didn't have time for dailies for whatever reason, I could still get some rep when I gathered my plants. It wasn't a lot, but it still felt like I was getting somewhere.
11/30/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Mistweavers
You're not going to be able to maintain a raid spot in a semi-competitive guild without doing dailies. Judging from the OP's current progression his guild isn't really even semi-competitive and that's not a dig or anything just the truth.
What is semi-competative? Also I fail to see how dailes help you in raiding now.


I'm sure if you asked 100 people on this forum what "semi-competitive" meant you'd get 100 different replies so take mine with a grain of salt.

To me, if you haven't completely most (if not all) of the normal modes and are moving into hardmodes by now you're not really a semi-competitive guild. Your server progress has a lot to do with this as well so competitive is relative to your server. Looking at wowprogress your guild isn't even in the top 100 (granted illidan has a ton of very progression-focused guilds) but even if you were on my crappy server you guys wouldn't even be in the top 15.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude and this isn't meant as an insult in any way, shape or form so please don't take it that way. The simple truth is for players that are semi-competitive it's almost impossible to keep your spot while ignoring dailies.
11/30/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Xen
I never did the dailies either and I'm just fine. I hate dailies, and refuse to do them. I might do them when I level an alt in the future but just for the mounts.


Perfect example here of someone that plays the game the way it was designed. They look at the things to do, decide what they'll enjoy, and do those while bypassing the things they don't.
The original poster is another fine example of skill > gear argument.
/cheer
11/30/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Ginx
I'm sure if you asked 100 people on this forum what "semi-competitive" meant you'd get 100 different replies so take mine with a grain of salt.


Probably about as easy to define as "hardcore" and "casual" ;)

11/30/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Ginx
The simple truth is for players that are semi-competitive it's almost impossible to keep your spot while ignoring dailies.


I wouldn't disagree with that. What I disagree with is whether that issue is important enough to go messing with the way the game works for everyone else. I see it as more of a case that it's going to force a separation in the ranks of "semi-competitive" between those that don't mind doing as much as humanly possible, and those that draw the line at certain things. I don't particularly want it to force that separation, but if people don't adjust to the increasing number of options in-game it will. Decreasing the number of options and the amount of things people can do to improve their character in their free time isn't the answer. It did surprise me though that one of the first criticisms of the new VP upgrade system was "there's no end to it". To me, knowing there's always something I can do to get some kind of upgrade if I have some extra time is a plus.
11/30/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Ginx
I'm sure if you asked 100 people on this forum what "semi-competitive" meant you'd get 100 different replies so take mine with a grain of salt.
Actually my original server was Earthen Ring, so I came a very long way from there.
11/30/2012 11:58 AMPosted by Xen
Also...Being undergeared doesn't waste your raid groups time. Skill>Gear. If you're wasting your raid group's time, its just because you're bad. These raids are easy.


Well of course an unguilded brewmaster, who gems and reforges into his least desirable stat and gets carried through pug runs on a high pop server would consider these raids too easy to put any effort into something as skillful as looking up basic information about his class.

Then again I could be way offbase for assuming how you choose to play the game is the wrong way. Just saying...

Something being required is a general term. Sure, certain guilds may place hard and fast requirements on their raiders based on past experience. If you just roll by yourself and do what you do, nobody is gonna require you to do anything. besides pay 15 bux a month, that is.


Hurrah, finally someone gets it.

IOW, they're not required UNLESS you think they are required. Tautology for the win, /thread.
You should try being exalted with tillers and wondering if its worth maxing all the individual friends if you feel that way.
I like the tillers! I get nifty little things from being friends with others :)

so many blizzard fanboys trying to defend their daily centric endgame model.

I fail to see what this has to do with anything, I also fail to see the "fanboy" argument people present so often.


Oh, let me explain. If you like the game, you are stupid. If you are annoyed the whole time you play, complain pretty consistently, and generally come across as a brat, you are badass.

The above does not apply to all people who have issues with the game. Just the ones that refuse to consider there is an alternative to their small world view. And that goes from both sides of the argument.
I'm glad you are in a raiding guild OP. Good job. Now what about those of us who aren't? Because our schedules don't allow for it, because we refuse to be tied to one character because the raid leader said so, or for whatever other reason?

If I want to sometimes pug MV in /trade, I need more than 463 dungeon gear. If I ever want to do more than just MV LFR, I need more gear than I'm getting from MV LFR or the AH. Valor gear has always allowed you to bridge gaps and get to the next gear level. Now, the only way to do that is with dailies.

Do dailies or don't progress your character are not suitable "options".
11/30/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Alelsa
A large percentage of the playerbase sees themselves as competitive raiders and therefore strives to give themselves every competitive advantage when it comes to raiding.


I think you'll find that large percentage is somewhat smaller than you think it is. The majority of WoW subscribers just log in and play the game to pass time. The reason for LFR was that the majority don't get to see raiding otherwise, and it was pointless putting so much effort into content that only a small number were seeing.

Once you take off the people with no interest in seeing raids whatsoever, the LFRers, and the people that do normal mode in a more casual setting, that's a very tiny (yet very vocal) number that are actually so progression-orientated that they feel if something is an upgrade they have to do whatever it takes to have it.


The biggest competitive raiders, the Vodkas, Methods, Paragons of the WoW world cleared these dungeons without these rep gears and enchants. /shock they aren't actually needed at all....
11/30/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Ravyne
The biggest competitive raiders, the Vodkas, Methods, Paragons of the WoW world cleared these dungeons without these rep gears and enchants.


True, they just bought gear off the BMAH instead...and they're STILL complaining about dailies.

http://manaflask.com/en/article/2079/fearless-blood-legion-speak-up-after-their-win

Your general opinion of MoP so far, best/worst features of it?


Shinafae: I think that MoP has overall been a success in engaging the interest of players both new and old. I will admit that I'm not so much a fan of having to grind several dozen dailies per day, sometimes on multiple characters, for a shot at certain luxuries that I'd taken for granted in the past, like the best stat food or valour items. I will admit to the possibility of being a bit biased on this point, owing to the massive amount of time the game already requires of me to participate in both high-end PvE and PvP. It may have been nicer, however, if the various dailies and their associated factions had been released through a series of small content patches rather than all at once.

As for the best feature of MoP, I'd have to say that for me, it's the art. I can honestly say that in nearly five years of playing WoW, this expansion marks the first time I have ever flown around a zone with no goal in mind but to relax and immerse myself in the scenery.


Ahdehl: Bosses should drop Lesser Charms of Good Fortune. Dailies are just terrible.


Zoomkins: If raiding is the pinnacle of World of Warcraft's PvE content, why doesn't it reward you better with the Valor point system like it used to. Raiding requires hours and hours of hard work and concentration, how come I have to do even more chores outside of it to upgrade my gear I got from it. I want to be valor capped for clearing the hardest content in Mist's of Pandaria, not have to spend time on top of it, doing 5 mans?


Kruciel: I'll do you one better. The best feature IS the worst feature. The daily quests spread all over the world, forcing you to actually leave Orgimmar/Shrine is a move into the right direction, but making them required to the extent they are... IT'S ENRAGING DOING GOLDEN LOTUS FIVE TIMES IN A ROW ON ALTS just so I can hit that magical coin button every week to get 28 gold over and over and watch other people coin heroic weapons and trinkets and tier on alts. Outside of progression, I literally would get off work at 5pm on Monday to Friday, get home around 5:30 and do dailies until raid time (150 minutes of dailies every day). And one last thing, Imperial Silk requiring you to be in the Silken Fields... Is this serious? =/


In b4 someone calls Blood Legion a bunch of lazy bads who just want handouts.
11/30/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Alelsa
What I disagree with is whether that issue is important enough to go messing with the way the game works for everyone else.


I don't see adding an alternative means to obtain rep and charms as messing with how the game works for everyone else. If people enjoy dailies they can still do them, for those of us who hate them we have an alternative. Everyone is happy.

At the end of the day though I don't believe we will see that because blizzard knows the second they let people obtain rep and charms in 5mans and raids hardly anyone would continue doing dailies. Unfortunately blizzard isn't very good at admitting to mistakes when they're current, we'll probably have to wait until the next xpac for them to admit the way they handled dailies in MoP was a mistake.
In fact I tank just fine too, only rep item's I have are my neck and a ring. Started raiding in all blue's from heroic dungeons had no real issues, did my LFR's and Sha (The occasional Galleon even though I got no loot.)

So if dailies are so forced please explain to me what it is forced for? Only one I can see being "forced" is the cloud serpent riding, far as I can recall in BC you did not need rep to use the PvP drakes so why do you need rep for the raid serpents?

Anyways, please explain to me why you are "forced"?


well, here. let me be the first to give you a sticker.

now, go stand in front of a mirror and give yourself a pat on the back! because thats the only way you're going to get one.
well, here. let me be the first to give you a sticker.

now, go stand in front of a mirror and give yourself a pat on the back! because thats the only way you're going to get one.
I fail to see any point to what you just said.

11/30/2012 02:07 PMPosted by Ginx
In b4 someone calls Blood Legion a bunch of lazy bads who just want handouts.
Blood Legion camp's Galleon for me, then when he spawns they generally disperse and share the tag with the rest of us who show up.

I'm glad you are in a raiding guild OP. Good job. Now what about those of us who aren't? Because our schedules don't allow for it, because we refuse to be tied to one character because the raid leader said so, or for whatever other reason?

If I want to sometimes pug MV in /trade, I need more than 463 dungeon gear. If I ever want to do more than just MV LFR, I need more gear than I'm getting from MV LFR or the AH. Valor gear has always allowed you to bridge gaps and get to the next gear level. Now, the only way to do that is with dailies.

Do dailies or don't progress your character are not suitable "options".
You do not need more than 463 gear to do MSV, your realm has set that standard nothing more, dailies are optional you do not need that gear to raid.
I did a couple lfr so far and I could have done them in greens.
11/30/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Ravyne
The biggest competitive raiders, the Vodkas, Methods, Paragons of the WoW world cleared these dungeons without these rep gears and enchants. /shock they aren't actually needed at all....


Wait wait wait, you mean the best players in the world can do it, so everyone can do it? I can just grab 24 random people out of Org with 463 iLvl and clear H ToES?

11/30/2012 02:24 PMPosted by Mistweavers
You do not need more than 463 gear to do MSV, your realm has set that standard nothing more, dailies are optional you do not need that gear to raid.


You come to Icecrown and get in a pug with a 463 iLvl. Go ahead, let's see how far you get.

11/30/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Kareese
I did a couple lfr so far and I could have done them in greens.


But you couldn't have, because the game checks your iLvl. And I really don't see what the difficulty of LFR has to do with the thread anyways.

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