Oh, Vol'jin

Story Forum
12/02/2012 01:54 PMPosted by Skytotem
Well garrosh is taking increasingly risky moves and doing a lot of corruptive dangerous stuff while Vol'jin -isn't-...


It's a war, risks are going to be taken. And it's not exactly unprecendented that corruptive dangerous stuff has been used to augment militaries in WoW. Saronite ring any bells? How about Fel Iron? How about Shadowmourne? Heck, there's a good chance that when you side with Vol'jin you'll be waving a sha-touched weapon around in his face.

Garrosh is racist and disrespectful to every race except orcs so...


Nothing new there, although, it may just be me, but he's kind of ratched that back a bit hasn't he? He hasn't come to regard the Horde as a family, but he will at least respect individuals based on their merit. Heck, the quest even points out the fact that he trusts PC characters inplicitly regardless of their race.

I don't really get the 'for some reason' thing here.


At the time of you the player betraying Garrosh Hellscream the only reason why you are betraying him is because he tried to kill Vol'jin. Same with the other factions within the Horde. Vol'jin is going to go to What's-His-Face to see if he can secure an alliance simply because the Blood Elves are bad mouthed by Garrosh and not getting a free ride anymore.

He even went so far as to compare Garrosh to Garithos, which is stupid since Garithos tried to execute them en masse while treating them like cannon fodder.
12/02/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Steinsgate
Orcs were starving and where in the process of dying out


This is an exaggeration. There was a food shortage, at best. Nowhere is it said that Orcs were dying of famine, and were on the verge of extinction. Even if this was true, does that give them the right to conquer and enslave the whole of Kalimdor, and now beyond? I don't think the Orcs need the whole world to satisfy resource shortages. No, it's greed mixed with entitlement with a dash of bloodthirst.

If Garrosh would win, then we'd have something akin to the Mogu Empire before it fell: the "lesser races" (as Garrosh himself says often) would be slaves to the Orcs, and even their allies would be second citizens. Only this would exist on a global scale. Sound like a just war? Sounds like something a mad dictator would dream up. And Garrosh has proclaimed multiple times this is just what he wants.
It's a war, risks are going to be taken. And it's not exactly unprecendented that corruptive dangerous stuff has been used to augment militaries in WoW. Saronite ring any bells? How about Fel Iron? How about Shadowmourne? Heck, there's a good chance that when you side with Vol'jin you'll be waving a sha-touched weapon around in his face.


Bull crap Cbred. You don't take risks like Garrosh is doing being a jerk to your allies doing corruptive things. The things you are making examples are not the same and not used in these circumstances. There's no relation and how they're corruptive.

Heck, there's a good chance that when you side with Vol'jin you'll be waving a sha-touched weapon around in his face


Assumption that is 100% chance wrong.

Nothing new there, although, it may just be me, but he's kind of ratched that back a bit hasn't he? He hasn't come to regard the Horde as a family, but he will at least respect individuals based on their merit. Heck, the quest even points out the fact that he trusts PC characters inplicitly regardless of their race.


Cause we went to Pandaria first(Horde Player champions). We get merit no matter what. If it was someone else... and a non orc he'd be what we call *Baddie*

At the time of you the player betraying Garrosh Hellscream the only reason why you are betraying him is because he tried to kill Vol'jin. Same with the other factions within the Horde. Vol'jin is going to go to What's-His-Face to see if he can secure an alliance simply because the Blood Elves are bad mouthed by Garrosh and not getting a free ride anymore.


Oh please Cbred quit denying it. Blood Elves are being treated like crap. If they were treated right they'd be glad to help. Nothing to do with a free ride.
Garrosh did each and every single thing that both Baine, and Vol'jin should loathe with their very hearts.

But Vol'jin only promises to act (and then proceeds to hide), when Garrosh' antics harm him personally.

I seriously hope Vol'jin isn't hit with the Tyrande treatment bat. He still has hope.
Blood Elves are being treated like crap.

Source? He's made a few jokes at their expense, but that seems more to stink of 'running gag' than systemic mistreatment. If anything the blood elves ( as seen in theramore and darnassus ) seem to be the most committed to Garrosh among non-orcs.

I never understand why so many of the lore nerds here refuse to look at characters as having complexities. Things have to be wholly evil or wholly good. That's not how it works.

Odd that you'd say that immediately before posting something designed to make Vol'jin look wholly good and Garrosh look wholly bad. Even odder when you act as though you're speaking out when you say it.
I'm shocked Garrosh would try and assassinate Vol'jin.

You're shocked? Vol'jin openly admits to try to conspire to destroy Garrosh ( and in Garrosh's mind that probably implies a paradigm shift into a much weaker Horde that will capitulate to the Alliance and continue to live in the dirt)... It would be utterly insane for Garrosh to not to want to get rid of Vol'jin.

Even beyond that though, from his perspective, Vol'jin is really the worst sort of person: Not only a traitor, but a traitor who can't even put any force behind his threats.
Worse than that, he's a leader who has no interest in leading his people to greatness. He had to practically be forced to reclaim his own homeland, and he's shrugged off every opportunity for the Darkspear to advance as a people. He takes a slap in the face from the Alliance, and apologizes for it.

Is it really that hard to see why there'd be a great deal of animosity there?

I suppose it's easier though to just go "Garrosh evil man. Garrosh bad. Vol'jin good." and move on.
I suppose it's easier though to just go "Garrosh evil man. Garrosh bad. Hate Garrosh." and move on.


No, my belief was Garrosh would slowly descend, he'd be in the beginning of MoP be like how he was in Cata pre Tides of War. I was wrong, he's going all out which surprises me. I never expected him to try and assassinate Vol'Jin put Echo Isles under martial law. No it's not easier to say *GARROSH IS TEH EVULS11111111111*
12/02/2012 07:29 AMPosted by Nicholae
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's all a matter of opinion.

The American Revolution was a treasonous act performed by propaganda spreading domestic terrorists who enlisted aid from foreign countries to help weaken and undermine Britain.

Yeah.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's all a matter of opinion.

The American Revolution was a treasonous act performed by propaganda spreading domestic terrorists who enlisted aid from foreign countries to help weaken and undermine Britain.

Yeah.


.....Cause Britain was totally a saint with us...right?

Different circumstances...are different.

.....Cause Britain was totally a saint with us...right?

Different circumstances...are different.


Cause Garrosh was totally a saint with the trolls, elves, and undead, right?

Similar circumstances... are similar.

I seriously hope Vol'jin isn't hit with the Tyrande treatment bat. He still has hope.


... I hate how that's a thing. And I hate how much I agree.



I suppose it's easier though to just go "Garrosh evil man. Garrosh bad. Vol'jin good." and move on.


... That's what Blizzard's writers are doing. I'm surprised you haven't noticed. There's not many layers of meaning here at all. Garrosh is pretty blatantly "evil". As in, he's promoting the sort of things this game-world classifies as evil and performing actions that are supposed to be evil to lead up to his role as the expansion's main antagonist, both for the Horde and the Alliance.

I swear - Blizzard have been ridiculously open about their intent here. What has to happen to make it more obvious? Does Garrosh have to start wearing a cape with a high collar? Is he supposed to end all his statements with "Muahahahaha!"? Should he start mumbling his "evil plans" out-loud as if he thinks nobody else can hear them?

They can't get any more blatant with the guy.
Cause Garrosh was totally a saint with the trolls, elves, and undead, right?

Similar circumstances... are similar.


I was making a point how making the America Revolution was act of terrism and we shouldn't of rebelled.
12/02/2012 03:15 PMPosted by Aureus
Source? He's made a few jokes at their expense, but that seems more to stink of 'running gag' than systemic mistreatment. If anything the blood elves ( as seen in theramore and darnassus ) seem to be the most committed to Garrosh among non-orcs.


Garrosh had Lor'themar and the reliquary investigate ruins and neglected to mention to them that the Mogu in the area were hostile.

He essentially went "So what toughen up you should've been able to take it"

EDIT:

12/02/2012 03:15 PMPosted by Aureus
He takes a slap in the face from the Alliance, and apologizes for it.


when was this?
Seriously. He's BAD. They want us to not-like-him and want to kill him. That's their intent. If this keeps up, Blizzard are going to run out of big evils for Garrosh to do, and will have to start adding in small ones.

You'll get a Horde-only scenario to follow him around on his normal day, while he just does various forms of small-time nastiness.

"A crate-full of worg puppies! Hah - this will be fun! Champion, this will demand my full concentration. Protect me from the adult worgs while I carry out my task!"

Defend the Warchief until he has finished strangling the puppies!

"Look! A Blood Elf tailor has just made a lovely new dress. Yes. Very lovely indeed. It would be a shame if something was to... happen to it!"

Bring a Bucket-full of Orange Paint to the Warchief!

"Hold, champion. I must use the bathroom!"

Ask the Warchief if he washed his hands!

"No. Because I'm eeeeeevil!"
Sylass you're overdoing it.
12/02/2012 08:45 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Sylass you're overdoing it.


But it was hillarious.
12/02/2012 09:02 PMPosted by Rudox
Sylass you're overdoing it.


But it was hillarious.


Oh I know, I forgot to add it. Back hurts so I may not post everything I feel.
Seriously. He's BAD. They want us to not-like-him and want to kill him. That's their intent. If this keeps up, Blizzard are going to run out of big evils for Garrosh to do, and will have to start adding in small ones.

You'll get a Horde-only scenario to follow him around on his normal day, while he just does various forms of small-time nastiness.

"A crate-full of worg puppies! Hah - this will be fun! Champion, this will demand my full concentration. Protect me from the adult worgs while I carry out my task!"

Defend the Warchief until he has finished strangling the puppies!

"Look! A Blood Elf tailor has just made a lovely new dress. Yes. Very lovely indeed. It would be a shame if something was to... happen to it!"

Bring a Bucket-full of Orange Paint to the Warchief!

"Hold, champion. I must use the bathroom!"

Ask the Warchief if he washed his hands!

"No. Because I'm eeeeeevil!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSx7X77Qpa8
12/02/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Steinsgate
Orcs were starving and where in the process of dying out,


This is a load of crap and I see this being thrown around like it's a fact. If the Orcs were 'dying out' then they wouldn't be an emergent world power.
That's what Blizzard's writers are doing. I'm surprised you haven't noticed. There's not many layers of meaning here at all. Garrosh is pretty blatantly "evil". As in, he's promoting the sort of things this game-world classifies as evil and performing actions that are supposed to be evil to lead up to his role as the expansion's main antagonist, both for the Horde and the Alliance.

I swear - Blizzard have been ridiculously open about their intent here. What has to happen to make it more obvious? Does Garrosh have to start wearing a cape with a high collar? Is he supposed to end all his statements with "Muahahahaha!"? Should he start mumbling his "evil plans" out-loud as if he thinks nobody else can hear them?

They can't get any more blatant with the guy.

See. This is sort of my point. People are drawing what they want to see from here more than anything else.

You're right in that Blizzard isn't the best with nuance, but it doesn't really matter when you're going out of your way to avoid any in the first place.
12/02/2012 02:46 PMPosted by Lorthuron
Bull crap Cbred. You don't take risks like Garrosh is doing being a jerk to your allies doing corruptive things. The things you are making examples are not the same and not used in these circumstances. There's no relation and how they're corruptive.


It is the same thing though. Garrosh at least doesn't have any expectation that he won't be able to control whatever powers or weapons he finds. Just we've always done when we purified saronite or wielded weapons made out of Deathwing.

Assumption that is 100% chance wrong.


What is this, I don't even. Are you playing dumb?

Cause we went to Pandaria first(Horde Player champions). We get merit no matter what. If it was someone else... and a non orc he'd be what we call *Baddie*


The Horde PC was chosen to go to Pandaria on their merit. Just like the Alliance PC is sent with an elite force. Garrosh treats PC characters equally regardless of their race. He holds you in contempt when you first meet him and he trusts you explicitedly up until you betray him.

Oh please Cbred quit denying it. Blood Elves are being treated like crap. If they were treated right they'd be glad to help. Nothing to do with a free ride.


Their race is inherently isolationist and arrogant. They've also being driven to near extinction. Given the choice, Blood Elves would prefer to be left alone.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum