Neutral Faction: A ponderance.

Moon Guard
I'd join up with The Knights of the Ebon Blade. I honestly don't like being Alliance-only on this character.
@Tadkins: In regards to the coalition of the guardians, who are indeed a group who call allegiance only to the sacred land in which they guard, neither the horde nor the alliance are of any real threatening concern. In a natural environment, backed by an inexhaustible source of energy (The Dream and the Elements themselves, plus a supposed leyline for the magi), the guardians are capable of defending themselves. An army can do very little when they cannot breathe, or when the earth opens up to swallow them. A manabomb is an interesting diversion at best when the spirits of air simply throw it back the way it came. When the entire thing can be swallowed in a shield of earth, so the only entrance and exit is a tiny pass, an army is of no use. When undead creatures and demons are openly assaulted by the Dream's attempt a purification, they become limited in their usefulness. Or when a druid plants explosive spores in an area that when trigger become a choking cloud that gets into lungs---and if particularly nasty, perhaps be made to eat you alive from within...How about when your food is devoured by rodents, your mounts refuse to do anything, and the natural world seeks to halt every motion? Even the living bacteria in your belly can be turned against you by a vengeful druid. Add to this the question of "How long would the Green Flight, as well as the Cenarion Circle sit idle and let one side or the other destroy such a place?" and you have the makings of sending an army into a meatgrinder.

And that is not even considering the allies and associates of the guardians who would stand with them. Only the guardians themselves....and I didnt even include the magi among them.


That seems a little excessive. I don't even think the most powerful druids are capable of doing all of that.

You'd still be one small group against a massive coalition as the Horde. With no Alliance to protect you you'd be in pretty hot water.

Let's see...What do you mean other factions are left in the dust? The Argents, the Circle, even the Ring and the Ebon Blade still seem to be standing just fine. All are still active in game and in lore in all sorts of areas, independent of the conflict between horde and alliance. And would the alliance and horde still be dominant if the very peoples that make them up walked away? What if the Blood Elves and Trolls decided to go their own way? What if the Kaldorei pulled their forces back to the forests of northern Kalimdor, and consolidated to protect only their ancestral homes? What if the Draenei packed up and left. The goblins get a better offer from another cartel?


They wouldn't be dominant if they walked away, but I don't see that happening. I highly doubt every human would simply march out of Stormwind, and so forth. In the unlikely event they did, it would be a bad idea as the faction that remained intact would find a newly divided people easy pickings.

Another thing to think about is the possibility of one faction winning. If the Horde defeated the Alliance, do you think the Alliance races that are a part of neutral factions would have an easy time? The Forsaken want to obliterate all humans for instance, and I doubt they care what colors they're wearing at the time when they do it. Likewise, humans have been fighting with the orcs for generations; if the Alliance managed to defeat the Horde, I doubt they'll give the orcish members of the Argent Crusade/Ebon Blade/Earthen Ring much leniency.

In addition, from an OOC standpoint, I find it sad how many Alliance-side players want to be neutral. What's so wrong with being a part of the Alliance itself?
12/06/2012 12:08 AMPosted by Tadkins
What's so wrong with being a part of the Alliance itself?


What's wrong is the fact it has to exist. Being apart of the Horde or the Allaince is a constant reminder someone somewhere wants you dead.
It is a reminder that your people will be called upon to die and to kill, mostly over resources because neither side apparently knows how to do legit business.

"We need Trees."
"Hey, those are our trees!"
"Well, we kinda need them...for houses."
"We could sell you some..."
"Well what do you want for them?"

^ That right there? Stops warsong gultch.

Nix would join, war is -never- good for business. Plus, the Legion is coming back, and guess who profits from half the world killing the other, cause it sure is not us mortals. We to get our priorities straight. World Killers > Race War.
It depends, for a lot of my characters:

Mistreaver is neutral. She serves Yu'lon, not the Alliance.

Spellestra would stay Alliance, but she's neutral-leaning. Any fighting she does is surgical to bring a quick ending to the war.

Tamerlyn is pro-Quel'thalas. She serves her people, regardless of what faction they're with. She takes her Farstrider oath seriously.

Sibella serves herself and the Legion. Her being 'horde' is only nominal.

Shadereaver serves the Dark Lady, and thus the Horde. Hut if ever a split occurs, she's siding with Sylvanas.

Aurriana is... nominally Alliance, but mostly neutral. She joined the KotSH, then the AD and AC. At the rate things are going with her, she's about to get quite upset and find a new outfit to join.

Jadebrow is Tushui... though she considers herself a servant of Pandaria and her home first and foremost, and she NEVER would accept Varian as her king, dialogue be damned.

Aurhyld is Alliance, because she has nowhere else to go really. She could be neutral, but at least with the Alliance, she has a free pass to freedom, and doesn't have to worry about fending off bands of shoulders.
12/05/2012 09:24 PMPosted by Felthier
@Felthier: These factions have really only existed for a handful of decades. Some of the peoples in them havent been in them for more than ten or fifteen years. What makes a people so committed to these ideals that change would be impossible? Clearly Lorthremar doesnt think so--there is dialogue implying that he is reconsidering the faction his people are a part of. Is it because up til now there has been no viable alternative? Or because they are TRULY committed to the cause? And what about those fringe members, who dont really fit with their own culture or those who want to take a stand for what they believe in? And how have none of the neutral factions truly benefitted Azeroth in the same way? Was it not the Earthen Ring who led the charge to restore the pillar in deepholme, while Horde and Alliance were fighting each other? What about the defense of mount hyjal? Was that led by the horde and alliance, or did members of both just answer the call of the Guardians of Hyjal? What great feats have -EITHER- side been solely responsible for without the urging of the neutral factions?


So the examples that you gave where in times of crisis that threatened the way of life of all the people in Azeroth. As it stands there is a war that is on the brink of doing the same thing. If either faction were to triumph, Azeroth would fall into chaos.

When I say that we, as human beings, do not have the capacity in our relative life experiences to understand the internal conflict that wound ensue if we were to abandon our race, (all human beings) and join a separate faction is outlandish. While not impossible, it would have to be a choice made with a full heart of consideration.

Honestly, I know that the factions are shelved as per the framers intent, it wouldn't be wrong for factioned members of either faction to see neutrals as cowards. The premise of all the neutral factions that appear in game is to save Azeroth from catastrophic events. At the moment they are sitting idle and doing nothing. They allow atrocities to be committed by either faction while the world goes up into flames around them. Are they too afraid to act? Or once you put on a grey tabard you lose the will to fight?


Interesting that the Black Prince has an idea about that. If there is anything a Black Dragon has always been good at, it's manipulation. Perhaps the nuetral factions need a writer on the level of Wrathion.
12/06/2012 05:29 AMPosted by Nixalegos
What's so wrong with being a part of the Alliance itself?


What's wrong is the fact it has to exist. Being apart of the Horde or the Allaince is a constant reminder someone somewhere wants you dead.
It is a reminder that your people will be called upon to die and to kill, mostly over resources because neither side apparently knows how to do legit business.

"We need Trees."
"Hey, those are our trees!"
"Well, we kinda need them...for houses."
"We could sell you some..."
"Well what do you want for them?"

^ That right there? Stops warsong gultch.


Interestingly in the comics, while Thrall was still Warchief and attended the Theramore Peace Summit with King Varian Wrynn, they were actually discussing the route of trading in order to ease the hatreds between Alliance and Horde, so that the Orcs would not need to simply cut down Ashenvale's forests and Orgrimmar wouldn't be at risk of starving. Of course, this Peace Summit failed due to the intervention of the Twilight Hammer, and Garrosh and Varian blamed each other for it, believing they were trying to assassinate each other.

Should Thrall ever return as Warchief, he and Varian could stabilize the conflict rather easily if they completed this discussion and pulled it off. That does not mean to say there would be full peace between the factions though. There will always be some kind of conflict here and there. What it will do, however, is keep Azeroth itself stable, allowing the planet to heal properly without neither side damaging it further, and gaining an understanding of each other in the process... which is pretty much required for when the Burning Legion starts bombarding Azeroth in the near future. They will need to get their act together. It's inevitable, as Wrathion's warning (he literally spelled it out), makes it quite clear what needs to be done with both sides.

With that said, Army of the Light might just be that neutral faction, if it was playable. Chances are, Blizzard might take the easy way out and just make AoTL a non-joinable faction to gain rep for, similar to Argent Crusade. Disappointing but, bleh... that's the limited game mechanics to blame. Considering Turalyon and Alleria's return in 6.0 heralds WoW's 10th Anniversary, it would be nice indeed if Army of the Light was the actual third playable "neutral" faction, and Blizzard going completely all out for that expansion, given the significance of it all.
Initially, reading the first post of this thread, I thought "A neutral faction! I would love that! What a no-brainer choice. This totally should have been done. Too bad Blizz only thinks in terms of 'How do we make Alliance hate Horde even more?!'

Then I thought...loyalties are actually a big deal. Almost inconceivable in our day as I would argue that nation pride is very, very low. People in our country (US) have very little respect for each other and very little respect for our leadership. People would have no problem moving to other English speaking countries if the work to get there wasn't so difficult.

The individual lands of Azeroth, presumably? , do not have millions or billions of people in each land. The population is more tight knit and loyalties probably run high. Annnnd, I feel like I am trying to make some kind of point here but have been sitting in my computer chair for ten minutes and it's not coming.
Well, to take it in perspective; Westfall and much of Stormwind's population is in abysmally bad conditions, what little we have seen in-game in regards to both areas for construction is minor and doesn't look to be nearing completion anytime soon. Many of the homeless, orphaned, and destitute are living off of the land in Westfall, while the influences of the remaining bandit groups still prey upon the starving, the poor, the young and the weak.

Considering these people reflect around a 25% of the population of Stormwind itself, I would think that the loyalty issues would lie within the city itself for fear of being beaten, pillaged, or stolen from on the roads outgoing from the city.

The situations in Iron Forge are still rather tedious, with what unexpected "stone" status of the king, and his daughter and her newborn son currently in lead of the dwarven council of the three hammers. Will things improve? We don't know...

Matters with the gnomes are somewhat in an awkward half-finished stage with the attempts to regain and restore the gnomish home city to their proper control - little is known on if they are ever going to gain it back.

Situations with the kaldorei people are a bit awkwardly half-finished as well, Tyrande and Malfurion are (On again, off again..someone tell them to make up their damned minds already. /grumble gripe) leading the people as a united couple, with the Circle holding majority rule over the druidic numbers among them. Does this mean there will be some symbolence on progress towards their shared goals? Who knows....scenerios reflect other matters going on there, but I've not done them yet to see for myself what exactly is going on or has changed.

The Draenei are once again still at a frozen point from early Wrath/late BC, and it's almost like Blizzard has pretty much put them on a stand still in time.

Loyalty right now with the Alliance is either high, or low depending on what race, or what experiences the characters have seen, but most of my characters at this point have seen little progress, and even less of a hope to see an end to the war. With that being said, much of their choices are made individually reflecting on their backgrounds and what experiences they have incurred over the years.

    Q - Alliance leaning. She takes no real sides in the war, in a way she's emotionally and physically tired and just wants it to come to an end already.

    Kess - True Neutral. This priestess has no vested interest in the war at all. She would be quite happy to skip away from either faction and tend to her children and her husband rather than deal with the amount of stupid that happens in the battlefield.

    Imalaya - Circle Supporter. Doesn't want anything to do with the warring factions but would drop everything to run to the line of defense if the Circle and it's allies were threatened.


These being merely examples of loyal and disloyal leanings. Q may not be completely waving the Alliance flag, but she knows and understands the morals and purposes behind the warfare though she has no taste or want for it. The others also have their reasoning as pointed out.

However! This is merely from an Alliance players point of view, my horde are of a completely different make and model in thinking.

@Settingsun: What does drive your character to fight? What things does he stand against? Would he defend the natural world from anyone seeking to destroy it? Would he be driven to anger in any particular instance? What stakes does he have in any cause? Does he understand the hesitance of the elves to welcome the Shu'halo into the Circle? Or does that cause a bitter feeling in him? What about other groups like the Earthen Ring, or the Crusade? Does he have any group that causes him to feel hate or disgust?


Wow I forgot to check this forum in a while...

Ok.

1) What drives my character to fight?
For a better future. Coexistence with nature and its children which include all of Azeroth's races (except the undead since he views them as unnatural to the cycle of life. If he had any say, they would be killed on sight not out of anger, but an act of mercy.

That is which is dead must stay dead.

2) What things does he stand for?
nature should be treated with respect and its children (animals, people) Those that can not defend themselves, it is their guardian's duties (Druids) to defend them. If a forest is in danger from either faction, he would do all in his power to try and stop it unless ordered otherwise from the Cenarion Circle.

3) Would he defend the natural world from anyone seeking to destroy it?

Absolutely. There is no reason why he wouldn't defend the natural world from any faction. Horde or Alliance. Including his own people, though giving their nature most of his kin wouldn't really go out of their way to cause such a destructive path. He hates Goblins. The pollution they cause is disgusting and if he could in game, he would destroy all their oil factories, their polluting plants, to do what is necessary to keep this planet healthy.

4) Would he be driven to anger in any particular instance?

It would take some pretty heavy moments to make him angry but it has happened. The murder of Cairne for one. He hated HATED Garrosh thinking he was responsible for his death but then learned the poison was from his own kin, but after the events that followed, (the mana bomb, Vol'jin's assassination) He is hating Garrosh even more and sees him as a threat to not only the planet but the Horde in general.

5) What stakes does he have in any cause?

Not entirely sure on what your question signifies but if i would have to go out on a limb, his stakes would be just like anyone else's. Garrosh, as he sees it is fighting the Alliance for his own personal gains. Settingsun is fighting for not himself but for a planet that can not defend itself.

6) Does he understand the hesitance of the elves to welcome the Shu'halo into the Circle? Or does that cause a bitter feeling in him?
Of course he does but that was a long time ago. The Shu'halo needed to prove themselves to gain acceptance into the Circle since the Kal'dorei were pretty much the only group in that faction at the time. Does he feel bitter towards that? Nope. Its natural to test another group for trust and allegiance before accepting them into a group dedicated to a higher ideal then oneself.

What about other groups like the Earthen Ring, or the Crusade? Does he have any group that causes him to feel hate or disgust?

Forsaken. Pretty much.

He gets along fine with the Earthen Ring, having been a Shaman before taking up the mantel of Druidism when he was accepted into the circle. Undead as I mentioned before was, in his eyes, an unnatural process developed from dark magic energies that go against the natural process of life.

If you mentioned Resurrection he wouldn't be against that act since, for the most part it is used by positive energy and I like to think when the spell is cast on the fallen, the dead get to choose whether or no to accept their return or pass on, whereas the undead never get that option. They are forced back into creation, more or less not in control of their own actions.
Sayu has been in the race war since the birth of the Forsaken, he has seen to much from the other side to ever think it was over. He would stay were the Dark Lady goes, and think those who left for the third faction were traitors and should be killed, if not there entire family tree burned down as an example. Then again he thought the plauge use of Wrathgate was nessary and fully supports that it was used AFTER the Horde champion was defeated after a single blow.

Game mechinics wise, a third faction is a bad idea, I mean they cant be neutral if one person from the Horde or Alliance can see an enemy among the ranks. The race war is built and the whole "You kill my father" mentality and years of being told "Orcs are the enemy, Humans are the enemy." To see a third power that could rival the Horde or Alliance... there is no way they would be targeted. Also were is this neutral place to be? Horde and Allaicne are consently fighting for terroitory and anthing over one zone is a no no. Lastly we lose on them in PVP, unless they are not neutral...
Sayu has been in the race war since the birth of the Forsaken, he has seen to much from the other side to ever think it was over. He would stay were the Dark Lady goes, and think those who left for the third faction were traitors and should be killed, if not there entire family tree burned down as an example. Then again he thought the plauge use of Wrathgate was nessary and fully supports that it was used AFTER the Horde champion was defeated after a single blow.

Game mechinics wise, a third faction is a bad idea, I mean they cant be neutral if one person from the Horde or Alliance can see an enemy among the ranks. The race war is built and the whole "You kill my father" mentality and years of being told "Orcs are the enemy, Humans are the enemy." To see a third power that could rival the Horde or Alliance... there is no way they would be targeted. Also were is this neutral place to be? Horde and Allaicne are consently fighting for terroitory and anthing over one zone is a no no. Lastly we lose on them in PVP, unless they are not neutral...


Taurens never had a grudge against the alliance. We were too busy with the centaurs who were really hitting us hard. Thanks to the Orcs we managed to fight back and get our homeland.

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