WW Monks and arena.

Arenas
I leveled a WW monk to 90 just to give them a shot thinking

"They can't be as awful as everyone says"

Well I'm here to tell you they are in fact pretty bad
I'm in full pvp gear and have my t1 weapons so it's not like I'm running around arenas in greens crying that monks suck.

-Burst

Tigers eye brew is awful for pvp. In an arena with a lot of CC I have to wait around 2 mins to get off my full burst but the problem is with every other class having such high burst matches are often over by then.

-CC

WW have no ranged CC at all. WW have pretty good stuns the problem is they all DR with each other. Also god forbid you get even a little server lag because then FoF and LS are going to miss half the time. Also paralysis is pretty awful. A melee ranged CC that breaks on any damage and requires you to be behind the target for a full duration on it.

-Mobility

In theory we SHOULD have good mobility, but we don't and here's why.

Roll- breaks snares but the problem is it often sends you right past your target. Also it's like blink and just sends you forward. I simple side step by your opponent and you're farther way then you were pre-roll.

FSK- Once again good in theory and awful in game. It has a huge range and a snare but can be avoided by a simple side step. Also I can't tell you how many times I've landed right on my target just to have the aoe snare not effect him. Still this is by far our best gap closer and is on a 25 sec cd.

Tigers lust - a 30 sec cd that requires 1 chi to break roots and snares. Of course as soon as you pop it you get snared/rooted again and then GG.

Also the class has no way to break stuns, fears, disarms, charms, polly, sleep or any other hard CC in the game.

Survivability-
Monks have 3 defensive cds and off healing. All healing and 2 out of 3 of the CDs are shut down by a silence and none can be used in stuns or any other hard CC.

Touch of Karma- By far our best cd but it has a few major problems. It can't be used when silenced or in any other form of CC and requires 2 chi. When you do use it the damage it reflects double dips into resilience (You resil reduces the damage you take and then the enemies resil reduces the damage reflected). Also it only protects you up to your max health. There have been a few times I've used it right before a stun and a warrior or mage can break it before the stun is up just due to the crazy damage they put out.

Defuse magic- This CD is great but once again can't be used in CC and silence locks you out of it. It's a 90% spell damage reduction for 6 seconds on a 1.5 min cd.

Fortifying brew- 20% damage reduction and 20% health on a 3 min cd. A nice CD but nothing special except for the fact that it's the only cd we can use when we're silenced. Still if you have 2 dps classes going hard on you 20% damage reduction doesn't count for much. This also can't be used in any hard CC.

Out side of these cds we have little to no passive defensive. Unlike feral, Dks, and warriors we have no access to our tanking stance. Our healing pre-patch was by far the lowest of all hybrid classes, and post patch it's worse. Not to mention it requires almost all of our resources to do almost shutting down our damage completely and in most cases will only keep you up for 1-2 more seconds if being focused hard. As far as off healing teammates goes chi-wave has a very long travel time and only really heals for a noticeable amount if your target is in melee range.

http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stats-classesrepartition-10-0-0-0--0-0-0.html

Monks make up 0.6 percent of the total arena population at 2200+
0.3% WW
0.3% MW
This is by far the lowest of any class

People like to say it's because we're a new class but the fact is there was no shortage of dks season 5. Of course I'm not saying we should be buffed to season 5 dk. All I'm saying is if monks were a extremely competitive class people would level them. The expansion has been out for months, at this point "monks are new" isn't the reason why they're lacking in high end arena.

Over all this is just some of the problems facing monks. Of course everything I wrote is just from what I've observed in my own game play and by watching streams.

-TLDR
Monks are lacking in arenas and need some help. A high skill cap isn't the problem because even if you're playing extremely well you can be killed by a keyboard turning warrior who pops his cds and happens to get off a good stun. High skill cap + little reward = bad class.
I agree full heartly with you. Monks as a whole are pretty wack. I remember seeing some blue post about how they didn't want monks to be like DK's in S5, which you have already stated you didn't want either. The problem is blizzard doesnt know how to balance... They either make it too strong or too weak. in your case too weak. They saw how insane DK's were S5 and vouwed never to have that again. Thus we're stuck here with monks. I planned on leveling one up and testing my ability to play melee quite well with them, but as of right now. HELL NO will i do that.
I hope they do something to help fix you guys.

By the way, my two main classes are Ele and Ret. Both have terribble defenses (my shaman literally has none...) but what i find helps me out a lot is gemming full resil everywhere. in lower end gear, it's better to have full resil over the dps socketbonuses.
A good offense is being able to be offensive consistently and being full resil helps with that seeing as you shouldnt have to go defensive as much or as drastically.

Also i know you probably have heard of this already, but play with classes that are friendly towards you. Someone who can help peel imensely, or another class that can fully go ballz to the walls dps and train a healer down with you.

This expac is all about who can peel the best, or who can train a healer down fastest.

Goodluck i hope monks get something soon as I would love to level one up.
12/05/2012 03:25 PMPosted by Indust
By the way, my two main classes are Ele and Ret. Both have terribble defenses (my shaman literally has none...) but what i find helps me out a lot is gemming full resil everywhere. in lower end gear, it's better to have full resil over the dps socketbonuses.


Right now I have fully upgraded t1 weapons, 3 mal pieces and all upgraded honor gear. I think the big difference between enhance and WW monks is that enhance has on demand burst. Both aren't in a good spot right now though. I do gem some for resil but as my damage is hardly crazy as is too much resil would kill any output I do have. I'm sitting hat just about 61% resil in my gear right now.
Play MW it gets better! /sarcasm
Ascension burst is one of the major things propping up enh right now otherwise they'd be just about as bad. I can't really see any arguments against giving ele Sham Rage (or WW Demateralize).

I remember an old guildie suggesting as well for a bit of a passive damage reduction through lightning shield. For every charge reduce damage by 5%. Since the 4pc would cause hits to build charges it would slowly ramp up defenses on the shaman as they're tunneled. It'd be a bit like defensive stance while up since the shaman wouldn't want to use Earth Shock to clear stacks as long as they need the defense.
12/05/2012 03:57 PMPosted by Havocz
Play MW it gets better! /sarcasm


Yeah I was going to try to play so mw too, then I read the patch notes
I agree wish most of it except for mobility, ours is just as good as most, FSK takes practice but i never miss it anymore, and tigers lust is pretty good with dispels, i never have a problem sticking on a guy with SFB and disable,

All we really need to be arena viable is, on demand burst, one more solid defensive, and a real "big" CD. Zen meditation doesnt cut it in arena at all.
Monks have potential. Some of our abilities are just screaming for touch-up. A prime example is Chi-Torpedo.

This ability has so much potential and could easily compete with Xuen IF they would make some changes to it like....

Chi-Torpedo..Now breaks roots..
Chi-Torpedo now functions like FSK (basically hit it to move forward and hit it again to stop)

Buffing that one talent would....

Make Celerity a option over Tiger Lust. You buff Celerity and make it competative with Tiger Lust without even buffing Celerity.

Then you could buff the CC tier....

Reach - Removes the positional requirement on Paralysis, and increases the range by 20yrds, and removes damage over time affects off the target.

Ox Wave - 30sec cooldown...now targetable

This would actually provide options over leg sweep.

We definitely need Dematerialize for Wind Walkers, and we need a CC break...probably diffuse magic would be the best place for this.
Some of those ideas are pretty good. I would also like to see tigers lust give you a snare/root immunity for the time that it's up. It really wouldn't be any better than a pallys HoF.
cause right now our sustained damage is off the chain, if you can survive that long, i seriously oom healers in 2s lol
12/05/2012 05:13 PMPosted by Bellathissa
Some of those ideas are pretty good. I would also like to see tigers lust give you a snare/root immunity for the time that it's up. It really wouldn't be any better than a pallys HoF.


That would be overpowered.

The 70% speed boost would have to go. Then again it would just be HoF if you did that with a different name.

I think Tiger Lust is fine the way it is...it just shouldn't cost chi to use. That's all the buff it needs.

12/05/2012 05:19 PMPosted by Doublejab
cause right now our sustained damage is off the chain, if you can survive that long, i seriously oom healers in 2s lol


I agree with this 100%. This is why I am ok with Tiger's Brew. I would prefer they not add any burst cooldowns because i would much rather have more utility then a burst cooldown.
Every monk above 2200 3's is Windwalker.
12/05/2012 05:23 PMPosted by Yonä
Every monk above 2200 3's is Windwalker.
Only a majority, there are quite a few mistweavers above 2200.
Quite a few exploiters. MMR is getting hit hard this season.
12/05/2012 05:36 PMPosted by Aesix
All we really need to be arena viable is


People use the term "viable" way too loosely.
While I do agree with this as it is used a little to much.

Please ask yourself, would you really every bring a monk over any of the current classes listed below.

Warrior
Feral Druid
Warlock
Mage
The problem with our solid sustained is our uptime. I'd honestly love to see Tiger's Lust give a full freedom for its duration.
12/05/2012 05:48 PMPosted by Kallìk
The problem with our solid sustained is our uptime. I'd honestly love to see Tiger's Lust give a full freedom for its duration.


This

Vs melee cleaves when I have a lot of up time I do good damage.

Vs wizard cleaves where I have next to 0 up time I do no damage.
I run 2s with a BM Monk and we do decent, I doubt we'll ever see 1500 since we're both pretty casual players, but it's a lot better than it was when he tried any other spec.
Hit 1650 in 2's but could probably hit 1800. I'm by no means a good player so I can't expect much more than that. I can do really well in randoms for what little that is worth. Went 20-0 in EOtS :)

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