Blizzard there is a huge problem please fix

Paladin
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-doesn't excel at melee like a warrior.
- not a strong distance caster either, like a mage.
-weak heals.


aka: hybrid tax


really? have you look at druids?

also, i got to agree with the rogue since I finally quit pally after 7.5 years mainning pally, realizing that ret pally will always be the worst class/spec in the game. I think all that most ret pallys have now is the hope I had for the class all those years until 1 month into mop.

even a new class like monk is better off than ret, they have all the tools a melee class needs in pvp, silence(if counter while enemy cast), a stun, slow, ms, disarm, real gap closer.

I've said what I had to say about hands in PVE. I'm not about to repeat myself. I've said my piece in regards to this.

Hands are nice but they are far from a raid necessity as far as raid utility goes. You won't notice or miss a ret paladin if they are not in your raid. It's nothing else to say really.


true, they really have nothing to bring for the raid now and my guild don't even use ret for raids now especially when holy can bring everything that ret can.
Eh, give it time. The start of Cata was embarrassing, yet we ended up getting better as time went on and we will again. Honestly all we need to go from average to good again is slight +weapon damage% buffs or even just a passive to reset inquisition sort of like what rogues have. Make it so using Templars Verdict or Divine Storm resets inquisition.
12/07/2012 12:41 AMPosted by Bradlas
Eh, give it time. The start of Cata was embarrassing, yet we ended up getting better as time went on and we will again. Honestly all we need to go from average to good again is slight +weapon damage% buffs or even just a passive to reset inquisition sort of like what rogues have. Make it so using Templars Verdict or Divine Storm resets inquisition.


awesome idea, it would really help the class out alot & hopefully it does happen but i kinda doubt it seeing how logical blizzard's "fix" are.
12/07/2012 12:41 AMPosted by Bradlas
Make it so using Templars Verdict or Divine Storm resets inquisition.


That would completely defeat the purpose of Inquisition.
I feel like having TV or DS increase the inq buff time would only lead to more lazy gameplay with it and people wouldn't notice when it drops off. Idk i've never been for it a change like that, and I can't see something that minor being enough to "fix" us.
the only "buff" ret needs is to remove the GCD on Inquisition
Everyone seems to think if you aren't getting the most out of Ret you just arent good? How good do have to be to keep Inq and hit 5 buttons? That attack is just and easy insult that ignores the obvious.

The margin for error is so small playing a ret to get maxium results that other class do not have to deal with. No other class has such tight margin. This margin makes DPSing very tedious. Just be mature and take the your spec is slightly off, your gear isnt reforged etc

The number of people rolling paladins or playing the class has dropped by a huge number. Most raids I run or the BG's I play, there is maybe one or two other Paladins on average and it usually isnt Ret.

Guilds in most US servers are not raiding because there are not enough player any more to raid. Why do you think Blizzard brought along Raid Finder?

The only argument against the poisition being put fporward here is you "suck" that's why you are not doing well at DPSing, geez grow up and look at the facts , or at least look for the facts I have pointed your face at.....
state the problem clearly.
Ask questions, legitimate ones.
If you don't like the playstyle, deal with it or don't.
Quit complaining.
Search for a solution.

Otherwise, this is where i shake my head and leave.
You're contradicting yourself and ignoring the words of players who are succeeding where you claim the spec is broken.
There is something wrong with the Ret Paladin class brought on by the decisions of the Blizzard development team. It is so bad I believe someone on the development team hates someone on the team that is looking out for the Ret Paladin class and goes out of their way to make us miserable.

Ret is in a very smooth spot, don't see what is wrong here. They fixed most of the "issues" from Cataclysm.

This is not I think or I feel statement. The Ret paladin is out DPSed by everyone with the the same or even lessor gear. The tanks do more damage than Ret does.


I think we are playing a different type of Ret, damage is fine, player is just reallllly bad. The only situation I could really think of is on Stone Guards or Wind Lord Meljarak where the tanks could pull ahead.

The burst damage we provide is not sufficient enough to kill anything unless the other player is so poorly skilled. I have seen DPS meters where the Holy Paladin can out DPS the Ret.


Hmm burst damage not sufficient enough? Our burst is phenomenal, although counterable, you can not argue that Ret burst is weak. Your anecdotal experiences where you saw a holy paladin out dps the Ret just means the Ret paladin was really bad.

This Holy power/ inquisition sequence is so incredibly mundane and boring that it makes playing the class tedious.


While I agree it is a bit annoying, it far from makes the class boring or tedious - Unless you suck at refreshing it. Many other classes deal with the same exact mechanic.

In BG’s you can be feared, hurricane and trapped forever. Ret has one escape that has a forever cool down but other classes can CC you forever.

Trinket, Freedom, Emancipate, Divine Shield, Rebuke, Hammer of Justice, Blinding Light, etc. While Ret is susceptible to CC, you are using hyperbole.

I guess they want us all to heal, they have nerfed the tank badly too. Why does a DK, late arrival to the game, have so many more superior stats that a Paladin can’t even touch.


Can you explain yourself? If you are going to speak about this, you should probably have some knowledge... Prot paladins have smooth damage intake still, even though it is impossible to reach proper ctc level, a haste build does help, and Battle Healer scaling with vengeance is pretty awesome with SoI being very viable for Prot. I honestly don't see how late the DK's came to the game effects class balance at all. You need to change your method of thinking.

I really do want to stay with the game after 7 years of play but the obvious differences in one class being more powerful than another isn’t worth dealing with any more. Why does Blizzard keep refusing to admit that there is a real problem?


Because there isn't a problem? I'm not saying Ret is weaker than other classes, because clearly it is, but you are making it out to be a useless spec, and it is in a very good spot right now, and Prot is too - so if you really think this, you honestly just need to study before spouting off on the forums.
Ret works well in certain compositions, and on certain raid bosses differently.

I swear some people complain to complain, but this is the paladin forums after all. I'm glad this isn't Wrath anymore.... so glad - It sounds like you just want to roll FOTM, so maybe.... roll FOTM?
I always love the "Ret have hands to bring to the group so we aren't bad" comments.

LMAO!

WHO CARES ABOUT HANDS!?


*Raises hand*

Hand of Protection, and Sacrifice have quite a bit of use in raid content, salvation's threat change makes it a bit more practical in certain situations, but not as often uses. Clemency makes hands even more attractive.

Sacrifice can used on any player to reduce damage, they help out certainly, which is why we probably use them every single fight. Not because our tanks are bad, but because every little bit helps kill the boss, and if you believe that tanks always have defensives, you would be mistaken.

Hand of Protection has quite a lot of use, although it can be a bit iffy for melee if they tunnel or don't have a cancel aura macro. Hand of Protection helped a TON on Heroic Garajal tonight, especially during Frenzy. 100% less physical damage taken while the tank is being fixated? YES PLEASE
Can usually be used to "reset stacks", or drop a harmful debuff, like Amber Prison or Wind Step.
Used commonly on Garajal, Spirit Kings, Elegon, WotE, Vizier, Tayak, Wind Lord, Unsok, Lei Shi for various reasons this tier.

Those "little things" help a ton.

You really haven't got much out of Freedom this tier though tbh, minus being able to throw them out to clear petrification stacks on trash, it was very useful on Heroic Hagara in Dragon Soul, and is good anytime a mechanic calls for it.

Hands are VERY useful, but do I think people bring us to a raid primarily because of it? Probably not. As far as 10 and 25 man raiding is concerned, ranged / melee balance, token balance, is always an issue, and a typical guild will trial any exceptional applicant if it fits their roster.

Devotion Aura is a pretty weak raid cooldown this tier, but it has its use pretty much every fight, but we do good dps, and do have that utility when it calls for it, and when it is used correctly, it is well worth it.

It's just something nice and extra that Paladins provide, not just Ret. Our 10man group has 2 Holy Paladins, and a Ret, tbh 2 Holy Paladins was more than what we "wanted" - but most of the hands we toss out make up for the loss of a better raid cd that say, a shaman would provide.

I'm not really going to speak about PvP largely, but I know hands even play a large role there, but as far as PvE is concerned, you can NOT say that our hands aren't useful.
12/07/2012 02:56 AMPosted by Chyron
Everyone seems to think if you aren't getting the most out of Ret you just arent good? How good do have to be to keep Inq and hit 5 buttons? That attack is just and easy insult that ignores the obvious.


It's pretty easy to learn any dps rotation with a little practice and adjustments with addons to improve your ui. A large part of dps is affected by stats. And when your stats (particularly expertise and hit) are jacked up, you're killing your dps potential.
i made this char last patch of cata and we OWN in bgs if u play like a boss. its just we are facing some hard times in arena atm not saying we blow but just not tier 1 material.
12/07/2012 02:20 AMPosted by Battlemaiden
the only "buff" ret needs is to remove the GCD on Inquisition


That would be very nice.

12/07/2012 02:56 AMPosted by Chyron
geez grow up and look at the facts


I think that's what you need to do bub.
Blizz mantra in regards to Ret is as always. "We like where they're at right now."

In the ground. lol awe..
12/07/2012 09:06 AMPosted by Cadenbrie
the only "buff" ret needs is to remove the GCD on Inquisition


That would be very nice.


Meh. I'm fine with Inq on the global; I want Seals of the global to make SoR a bit more viable, since swapping would no longer waste a GCD.
12/07/2012 11:08 AMPosted by Grôgnárd
I want Seals of the global to make SoR a bit more viable, since swapping would no longer waste a GCD.
The problem with ret paladins is :

1) Nothing we can bring to arena / RBGs that a holy pally or other class can
2) Severe lack of defensive utility. Bubble gets shattered almost instantly in arena. Once bubble is down were sitting ducks and its gg. Their is NOTHING we can do.
3) Heals are terrible now on ourselves. Lack of survivability.
4) No threatening dps when CDs are off. Templars Noodle is fail finisher.
5) When we do try to burst we get CCed and killed to easily. ( back to point 2 )
6) Other classes do everything better than we do -
Warriors - Melee better than us. Burst better than us. and Heal themselves better.
Warlocks - Their bubble/absorb is better than ours and they heal better than us.
Mage - no comment. They speak for themselves, Ranged gods.
Dks - All the tricks of the trade with great dps
Monks - Better mobility than us and utility.
Hunters - Better Burst, CC, survivability.
Rogues - Great utility, CC, and dps.

Its no wonder no one wants us in pvp

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