Will the Siege of Orgrimmar end the war?

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12/05/2012 11:54 PMPosted by Aureus
6. Somebody shows up and stokes the old grudges. (Turalyon, perhaps.)

Oh god. That would be so perfect.

Nothing I could think of could possibly break the backs of the Alliance fanbase more than making the Alliance put down Turalyon because he and his forces don't want to be BFFs with the Horde.


While I definitely don't see THAT happening, I DO see it as a solid means by which the Horde/Alliance conflict will survive the aftermath of MoP by being rekindled in the future.

With the end of MoP, I actually don't see the Horde/Alliance issue even having TIME to come to a close. Garrosh will die and immediately the next threat will come into play. Before Thrall and Friends can sit down and work things out, the Burning Legion's come a knockin' again.

At some point in the ensuing chaos, SOMETHING occurs to overturn the uneasy truce. Maybe the Horde does something absolutely unforgivable, or maybe it's the Alliance. Likely, both will be to blame.

Come the following expansion, we're all back to square 1. The Horde vs. Alliance conflict will continue on, and the status quo will be preserved.

While I definitely don't see THAT happening, I DO see it as a solid means by which the Horde/Alliance conflict will survive the aftermath of MoP by being rekindled in the future.

With the end of MoP, I actually don't see the Horde/Alliance issue even having TIME to come to a close. Garrosh will die and immediately the next threat will come into play. Before Thrall and Friends can sit down and work things out, the Burning Legion's come a knockin' again.

At some point in the ensuing chaos, SOMETHING occurs to overturn the uneasy truce. Maybe the Horde does something absolutely unforgivable, or maybe it's the Alliance. Likely, both will be to blame.

Come the following expansion, we're all back to square 1. The Horde vs. Alliance conflict will continue on, and the status quo will be preserved.


I actually think the Legion would be a great way to handle it. Actually have the Legion attack at the end of the Siege. Then you find out that Stormwind is under attack too. Varian and friends rush through a portal to fight off the Legion attacking Stormwind.. which in turn enflames the Horde, who feel abandoned by the Alliance.

Also covers the "Why doesn't the Alliance occupy/crush Orgrimmar?" angle.
Mists of Pandaria is supposed to make us question why we fight; to teach us that we shouldn't be driven by hatred or a lust for conquest, but instead striving to do what's right and fighting to make the world a better place.

If the leaders of the Alliance and Horde take that lesson to heart, they might negotiate a peace after the siege, then unite against the Burning Legion. If they remain at war (or return to war after a short hiatus)... we'll be left wondering what the point of this expansion was.
If they remain at war (or return to war after a short hiatus)... we'll be left wondering what the point of this expansion was.


Exactly. What's the point of it all if the war just rolls on? It would be incredibly stupid. I know people vomit "Ally/Horde war is warcraft" vomit on this board, but this war was forced already and needs to just stop. We were supposed to be all good after WC3 for cripes sake.
Gameplay wise, I don't think they will ever remove the WSG BG. So there always has to be juuuuuust enough war to have an excuse for it.
12/06/2012 01:09 AMPosted by Threeslotbag
Gameplay wise, I don't think they will ever remove the WSG BG. So there always has to be juuuuuust enough war to have an excuse for it.


Couldn't we just assume that battleground is set in the past?

That explanation works for old quests and dungeons. It even seems to apply to Alterac Valley, seeing as Drek'Thar wasn't updated to fight in a wheelchair.
Not to mention battlegrounds are completely lore disconnected already. Gilneas was the last BG to have an actual lore impact, and before that, Alterac Valley. EotS, SotA, IoC, TKM, even Wintergrasp and Tol Barad had very little lore justification.
12/06/2012 06:23 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
Not to mention battlegrounds are completely lore disconnected already. Gilneas was the last BG to have an actual lore impact, and before that, Alterac Valley. EotS, SotA, IoC, TKM, even Wintergrasp and Tol Barad had very little lore justification.


Exactly. Although TB, WSG, AB and AV could still be considered relevant. Probably not after MoP ends though. The rest of them? Probably not connected to lore or really fought over now. I cannot see them fighting in Outland or Northrend over resources that much anymore.
Sure, and south shore, Gilneas, Astranaar and Theramore... bygones, no worries.

Or, we can learn that you know what, the horde are mostly either evil, or ok with supporting mosterous evil.

Taking down Garrosh will fix the problem for 10 minutes, until the next guy comes along and says "you know, I don't really like the alliance either, let's go nuke Darnassus.
12/06/2012 01:09 AMPosted by Threeslotbag
Gameplay wise, I don't think they will ever remove the WSG BG. So there always has to be juuuuuust enough war to have an excuse for it.


For a time, WSG and I thinki AB and AV were actually not considered canon BGs. From about half way into BC to Wrathgate. But Blizzard pulled one it it's normal things and only told us that there had been a peace/trade treaty between the orcs and Night elves after the Night elves broke off diplomatic and trade contact.
Taking down Garrosh will fix the problem for 10 minutes, until the next guy comes along and says "you know, I don't really like the alliance either, let's go nuke Darnassus.


Assuming, of course, that anybody in the Horde would listen to such a person, and that the position of Warchief still exists by the time we're through with Garrosh.

The Romans, Americans, and French eventually got sick of monarchy; so might the Horde.

Besides, the most powerful champions of both the Alliance and the Horde have been associating with Wrathion, who insists that the war between them is pointless compared to what threatens to destroy the planet. The Horde, at least, would listen to its champions; and many Alliance leaders are already in agreement with Wrathion.
12/05/2012 11:54 PMPosted by Aureus
Nothing I could think of could possibly break the backs of the Alliance fanbase more than making the Alliance put down Turalyon because he and his forces don't want to be BFFs with the Horde.

How about if we kill him and the rest of the Alliance expedition with him because he's got loot and a joke character asks us to kill him for it?

No lore justification whatsoever for his death, just purples.
How about if we kill him and the rest of the Alliance expedition with him because he's got loot and a joke character asks us to kill him for it?

No lore justification whatsoever for his death, just purples


It's an personaly hope of mine that Alleria is a raid boss. I was kinda disapointed that she wasn't in BC, since Zul'jin and Teron were raid bosses, Kargath a dungeon boss and Mogor was a group quest, I thought ''hey, Blizzard isn't just going to kill off many Horde characters without killing off at least one Alliance''.

Turns out I was wrong.
Yeah, how dare the characters who were villains in Warcraft 2 be turned into raid bosses.
12/06/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Vegdrasil
Yeah, how dare the characters who were villains in Warcraft 2 be turned into raid bosses.

Zul'jin (and the Forest Trolls in general, really) was actually consistently portrayed rather favourably within the scope of Warcraft 2.

He was the hero responsible for uniting the Forest Trolls to put a stop to years of Human and Elf aggression and repulse the invaders from their homelands, and who only joined the Orcs because the Elves were cranking up the tension with the war going on.

Only in Warcraft 3 did the smear campaign begin with Thrall randomly saying he couldn't believe Forest Trolls were ever in the Horde.
12/06/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Kellick
Only in Warcraft 3 did the smear campaign begin with Thrall randomly saying he couldn't believe Forest Trolls were ever in the Horde.


Wait. Thrall was dissing Forest trolls?
It's for the best anyways. Forest Trolls wouldnt last in Thrall's Horde very long. Garrosh's Horde?

Maybe...but who knows.
How about if we kill him and the rest of the Alliance expedition with him because he's got loot and a joke character asks us to kill him for it?

No lore justification whatsoever for his death, just purples.


While Zul'jin's death was poorly handled... it was the Zul'Aman trailer that made him cool in the first place. In Warcraft II, he was the same as a normal axethrower except that he had +1 range and +1 sight. He had a unique portrait but a generic voice. He appeared in only a single, short mission, early in the first orc campaign, and he was never mentioned again afterwards.

Turalyon, Alleria, Danath, Khadgar, Kurdran, Grom, Kargath, Teron and Deathwing were all far better developed. They had greatly enhanced stats and unique voice acting. They appeared in multiple missions, and they were frequently mentioned in mission briefings. Zul'jin was a no-name in comparison.

12/06/2012 02:20 PMPosted by Kellick
Only in Warcraft 3 did the smear campaign begin with Thrall randomly saying he couldn't believe Forest Trolls were ever in the Horde.


That line is even funnier in retrospect, coming from the guy who would later allow warlocks, undead and even a demon lord to join the Horde.
That line is even funnier in retrospect, coming from the guy who would later allow warlocks, undead and even a demon lord to join the Horde.


I..am not even sure if that was in character for him or one heck of a bad characterization of Thrall then again...gameplay gave lore the finger likely.
No. It will end an all out world war yes, but there will still be conflicts here and there.

And I like the point someone made about the warlocks... I always thought Garrosh's corruption that blizzard was talking about was Sha related for obvious reasons, but having it be related to the burning legion would be a great way to ease into the next expansion, which is heavily hinted... and I mean HEAVILY hinted, sort of in the way that Deathwing being on the box of Cataclysm hinted that we might have to fight him.

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