Hardest Stone Guard combo?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Last night we went in with a casual pug group (same people 2nd week running together, but set up from different guild groups, so i call it a pug group)

We spend literally 2 hours wiping on 10man stone guards with amethyst down.

We proceed to 1 shot next boss and 2 shot 3rd boss and called it raid time.

Our wipes on stone guards were literally 3 healers pumping out 50k hps+ each. If it's not the worst combo, it just sucks. Mainly melee heavy group with mines exploding and chains moving apart because of 1 of the 2 stuck inthe blown up mine. Just curious if anyone else thinks this combo sucks
I will say those mines are hard to see when you have 2 big dogs and 1 is lit up and a mine shows up right under the dogs.
Jasper, Cobalt, Amethyst.

That's blue shards freezing you in place, purple slime puddles everywhere, and people getting chained all over the place.

At least Jade's is just a systematic AoE.
Jasper, Cobalt, Amethyst.

That's blue shards freezing you in place, purple slime puddles everywhere, and people getting chained all over the place.

At least Jade's is just a systematic AoE.

Yeah, it's the most annoying, but amethyst damage is avoidable unlike Jade. Although I don't know which ends up doing more damage.

Having stuff all over the floor is annoying but it makes the fight easier if you're group uses half a brain.

Just remember though, everytime we complain about a bad 3-dog combo, the 25mans out there have to deal with ALL FOUR every week. Was looking forward to 25 H Stone Guard this week... didn't happen.
Ya 4 dogs would suck and then you have to deal with probably lots of people standing in stuff breaking chains at wrong times or just not stacking, ect.. This fight just all around blows to heal and to tank. (i've done both)
Jade/Cobalt/Jasper barely edges out Amethyst/Cobalt/Jasper

Amethyst damage complicates movement sometimes, but stepping over one puddle to make a beeline towards your chains partner isn't that big of a deal. The only thing to worry about is stepping over 3-4 puddles that have been stacked tightly on top of each other.
This weeks combo is medium difficult - the hardest is Jasper, Cobalt and Amethyst. Last weeks was the easiest. If you have 3 healers pumping out 50k hps, your raid is taking too much damage. We two healed it last night @ ~40k hps each. Some tips:
1) Tanks should be absorbing/healing exclusively - no reason to block or dodge since 80% of the damage they take is from a DOT (rend flesh)
2) DPS and healers should be loosely stacked so they don't get chained up to someone across the room. The tanks are responsible for staying in range of heals while keeping the guardians away from each other so they don't accumulate energy unnecessarily.
3) When people get chained, they should stay chained the rest of the fight. When they have to move, take small stutter steps (the length of one tile on the ground in the room). Breaking chains is problematic because a) you increase raid damage taken for no reason and b) introduce variability in the fight as two new people will eventually get chained. If they aren't near each other they could die.
4) Several class can safely pop mines with certain abilities - rogues, mages and hunters in particular. Many classes have talents that will free them (and others) from movement impairing effects - they should use them.
5) Tanks should try to learn how to manage energies using a single taunt method. Doing a swap/double taunt adds additional energy to the guardians unnecessarily.
6) Keep RPDS and Heals in middle on the red carpet, tanks on outside.
7) DPS needs to chill for the first 10 seconds as tanks get agro. Tanks need time to build vengeance and possibly swap right off the bat, you don't need the bleed on a DPS wasting healer mana.
8) After the first taunt, hit heroism and pop offensive cds'. This will maximize dps since everyone should be alive and this is when the least amount of movement is required.
9) Everyone should use defensive cool downs/healthstones/health potions aggressively. Better to have used it and not needed it than be dead.
Jasper/Cobalt/Amethyst or Jasper/Cobalt/Jade are arguably the hardest, though for different reasons.

The first is bad because there's lots more bad to not stand in than other combos. However, because there's no constant Jade aoe damage, it's easy to keep everyone alive through things as long as they're not being stupid, as it's easy to heal people through small mishaps, as there's no pressing urgency so to speak.

As a result, if people are good at not standing in bad, it turns pretty easy, but if they're not, it gets to be the most problematic.

The later combo is no purple puddles, but jade aoe damage. As such, if people are prone to stand in bad, the jade aoe damage is likely to finish them off; or vice versa, with the jade damage getting them low enough that messing up on chains or mines blows them up.

In contrast, the other two combos has purple puddles instead of mines (less spike damage, easier to dodge), or no chains (all ranged/healers stay spread out all the time, makes mine/puddle overlap a lot less and thus very easy to dodge).

Of course, 25 has to deal with everything, so that's really the hardest combo.
Jasper, Cobalt, Amethyst.

That's blue shards freezing you in place, purple slime puddles everywhere, and people getting chained all over the place.

At least Jade's is just a systematic AoE.


Yep. This combo truly sucks.
12/05/2012 12:12 PMPosted by Levix
If you have 3 healers pumping out 50k hps, your raid is taking too much damage. We two healed it last night @ ~40k hps each.


Do you have any proof for this outlandish claim?

According to WOL, the median HPS for kills (10N) is 155K. If their graph on the same page is accurate, then fewer than 50 kills have been logged with a raid HPS of 110K or under.

12/05/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Quiigly
We proceed to 1 shot next boss and 2 shot 3rd boss and called it raid time.


This is to be expected - Stone Guard is the hardest of the first four bosses (completion rates on WoL are: Stone Guard 16%, Feng 23%, Gara'jal 21%, Spirit Kings 24%).
Jasper/Cobalt/Amethyst gave us the most trouble before we had it completely on farm.

Our first kill of it we had to use 4 healers just to survive through all of the avoidable damage that we couldn't avoid yet.

Now, the fight's a relative cakewalk now that our healers are better geared and the DPS know how to handle the chains.
Stats from our kill today - 7:07, 162K HPS.

Damage by spell:
30.6M Rend Flesh
19.1M Jade Shards
11.1M melee
4.1M Cobalt Mine Blast
3.0M one un-soaked overload
1.6M chains

I'd instructed people that chains were more important to get right than mines, so sometimes if newly-chained people were separated by a wall of mines they had to run into the mine.

As you can see, 87% of this damage taken, or about 140K DTPS, was unavoidable.

We had Jade Petrification up for only 54 seconds (13% of the time) - just happened to get mostly Jasper and Cobalt Petrification, and also the cycle we ended up on had short Jade phases and long other phases.
Jasper/Am/Cobalt.

Its easier to heal jade than stupid.
12/06/2012 04:02 AMPosted by Autumni
As you can see, 87% of this damage taken, or about 140K DTPS, was unavoidable.

Yeah, but not all damage is the same.

Jade might do a lot of damage, but it's by far the easiest kind to heal though. It's evenly spread across the entire raid, and it dribbles out in a slow, steady way. It lets AoE heals work efficiently, and nobody is going to suddenly drop dead because of it.

There might be a hardest Stone Guard combo, but there is no hard Stone Guard combo.
Honestly if your healers pumping out 50k hps each and still wiping then yes, your raid members are taking too much avoidable damage. Our kill the other night with this week's combo was 2 healed with our disc priest at 63k and myself at 57k, and even with those numbers we still had a good amount of overhealing.
Jasper/Am/Cobalt.

Its easier to heal jade than stupid.


My point exactly. We had this trio on the first week we got enough people geared to raid. Next week we got it down (with me dead for the last 10% >.>), and the most recent week we easily blew through it, plus got Feng, Gara'jal, and Four Kings down in one lockout. This week we'll probably try Vizier & Blade Lord in HoF before throwing ourselves at Elegon.
If you're melee heavy and your melee are derps who can't move out of bad stuff, just have the tank kite the dogs around the room as mines and pools drop.

Looking at our log for this week, we 2-healed it with 1 healer doing 53k hps and the other 39k hps. If you had 3 healers all doing >50k hps, it's really not the combo that's bad. It's your raiders. Sorry for the blunt honesty there.
If you have 3 healers pumping out 50k hps, your raid is taking too much damage. We two healed it last night @ ~40k hps each.


Do you have any proof for this outlandish claim?

According to WOL, the median HPS for kills (10N) is 155K. If their graph on the same page is accurate, then fewer than 50 kills have been logged with a raid HPS of 110K or under.

Oops, I was off by ~10K each, here is the log (I am the shaman healer). The paladin tank healed himself a bit (as all tanks should, but the druid tank didn't do enough IMO). We had a strange class mix - all range which makes it easier but it wasn't that bad to heal.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-n6lx7k7jdk4z51n9/sum/healingDone/?s=814&e=1207
OK looking at the logs again I see the three shadow priests helped a lot with healing so I withdraw my claims. That being said, it is certainly two healable with 470ish healers if you have a good class mix (hybrid dps class have some easy healing they can throw out)
thanks for the input. I honestly think probably what was happening is that a melee would maybe follow the kited boss while a range was chained to him and got caught in a mine. The melee wants to be close to the boss to hit it, but your healer or ranged couldn't move for 3 or 4 seconds or whatever it is. I am a pretty competent healer and this fight was just frantic healing to me. Most fights, I'm sitting at 38k hps but really not having to manage perfectly timed cooldowns, buff from summoned elementals (as a shammy), healing totem down on every CD, ect.. Feng, had frantic moments, but overall nothing like the dogs. Possibly just raid awareness like what has been said.

Regarding other person, we had 4 attempts with our healers all above 50k hps. Our kill on it was 44k hps, 50k hps, and 55k hps highest. Some other incidental healing from tanks also. No logs and assuming recount was working correctly, which i think it was. Feng the three of us were in the low 40's and able to dps feng a bit between. I don't remember what we were at on the 3rd boss, but really the healing isn't a problem at all because of getting all your mana back after each time being in the spirit realm. Just making sure you are doing the other mechanics correctly and beating the enrage which isn't terribly hard to do.
12/05/2012 07:00 PMPosted by Autumni
Do you have any proof for this outlandish claim?


http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/3w14ybho2ccbz1sn/sum/healingDone/?s=833&e=1088

bit higher than 40k each, but not too much more. 6 of those in the raid were pugs from trade chat, standing in puddles and dying to chains a couple of times, plus we had weird overloads cos the pug tank didn't really know what to do so taunts were messy

thus I could totally believe ~40k each for two healing it

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