Why don't mages have a good self heal?

Mage
12/07/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Negishi
Mages don't need a self heal they have enough cc as it is and they burst most classes down in a matter of seconds. Not to mention they have a bubble which has massive absorb and is almost constant cause of its low cooldown.


Out Ice barrier is on a 25 second cd and you can tranq shot it off. The absorb is not MASSIVE, it was in fact even nerfed by 25% last patch.

and cc's. as a hunter you have what? Scatter shot, silence shot, webs, binding arrow, feighn which causes us to lose target. traps from stealth, ice trap.

Don't argue CC when you have just as much, just meed to learn to utilize it better.
Scatter shot and Intimidation thats it. binding arrow is terrible so I don't use it Silencing shot isn't a cc, you only get webs when your using narrow escape which I don't cause its not usefull against casters only melee, feign death isn't a cc eathier... Please don't compare when half the stuff your saying is incorrect.
i do agree with this we only have 1 heal and it is quite annoying. I would love a low lvl heal.
One of the best things about wow PvP is that the classes are truly different. This may cause imbalance at times but it also stops people from having simple formulas to figure out how to do PvP. A Self-Heal might be nice, but more damage or control would be better. This way, damage is our Achilles heel.
I'd rather see some of these other classes be nerfed in their self-heal, then to have a modified/new one for Mages.

Blood DKs, for example, have ridiculous self-healing powers. They do a better job of healing themselves then what a healer could do lol.
Battle faitgue is kinda nice in the general spell tab lol just noticed it :)

Mages can also gank frostbarrier from other mages

Point is no class is unkillable by another class in general some specs are easier and harder

Point being if an Entire bg team was class a spec b vs another class b spec c it woukdnt alkways be one sided<although the 10 lock event videos are just eeeeeevil>


Out Ice barrier is on a 25 second cd and you can tranq shot it off. The absorb is not MASSIVE, it was in fact even nerfed by 25% last patch.

and cc's. as a hunter you have what? Scatter shot, silence shot, webs, binding arrow, feighn which causes us to lose target. traps from stealth, ice trap.

Don't argue CC when you have just as much, just meed to learn to utilize it better.
Scatter shot and Intimidation thats it. binding arrow is terrible so I don't use it Silencing shot isn't a cc, you only get webs when your using narrow escape which I don't cause its not usefull against casters only melee, feign death isn't a cc eathier... Please don't compare when half the stuff your saying is incorrect.


Last I checked the term CC stood for Crowd Control, if you silence shot someone, you control them. Feign makes you drop your target, you're right it's not a cc, but it can cause you to avoid a spell to the face if timed right. Webs, do they not come from spiders, I didn't think this was something you had to "spec" into. You have binding arrow, not our fault you don't choose to take it.

Half the stuff I'm saying isn't incorrect, you want to say poor me as a hunter I have no cc. GTFO if you can't play your class and reroll instead of QQ'ing about my abilities. You have a spirit beast heal as well that can stack multiple times if glyphed.

I wasn't advocating for a self heal anyways, we have one through evocate and cold snap. Not that we need it to kill a hunter...
12/07/2012 04:50 PMPosted by Ðimensionx
mages are retarded, should get nerfed. its allready a god class which can global anything in a deep. if you add selfheals you should give it plate armor too. so it can tank


Show me one mage that can "global" a player. You do realize that a "global" is one GCD (Global Cool Down). I've never seen a mage 1 shot anyone. Please, tell me how it's done, I need to learn2mage better.
This is because mages are supposed to be, to my understanding, the "glass cannons" of WoW.

To explain, we should be doing a !@#$-ton of damage, and in return shatter really easily.

This latest patch has nerfed our fire DPS, putting many of these "Glass Cannons" below the DPS of that of many healthier and self-healing classes.

This is why mages are so disgruntled currently.
Hey look at it this way.

We're glass cannons, but unfortunately cannons are now obsolete.

12/07/2012 05:21 PMPosted by Rore


Out Ice barrier is on a 25 second cd and you can tranq shot it off. The absorb is not MASSIVE, it was in fact even nerfed by 25% last patch.

and cc's. as a hunter you have what? Scatter shot, silence shot, webs, binding arrow, feighn which causes us to lose target. traps from stealth, ice trap.

Don't argue CC when you have just as much, just meed to learn to utilize it better.
Scatter shot and Intimidation thats it. binding arrow is terrible so I don't use it Silencing shot isn't a cc, you only get webs when your using narrow escape which I don't cause its not usefull against casters only melee, feign death isn't a cc eathier... Please don't compare when half the stuff your saying is incorrect.

Silence counts versus a caster, yes.

Also, I like how you only pick out 3 things (you're wrong about one, no less) and refuse to acknowledge trapping from a distance and from stealth.
alter time best mage heal....it's actualy kind of op but gets dispelled a lot :(. plus i'm always double clicking out of an iceblock and stuff. still tho.
1. rogue self-healing is terrible.

2. mages are balanced and designed around not having a heal. having a strong heal would make them broken.
12/08/2012 08:47 PMPosted by Earthbreaka
2. mages are balanced and designed around not having a heal. having a strong heal would make them broken.


It doesn't even need to be a strong heal. Make a major glyph that changes Incanter's Ward so that during the absorption period (I believe 6 seconds), x% of the damage you do is returned as health to you.
Mages don't have baseline self heal, we need to talent or glyph for them, which are limited. Pure dps classes are generally in this situation, though some have good talents or options to circunvent it, but they are able to point some serious limitiations nevertheless (require combo point, is on a long cd, spend lots of resources, etc) and are generally weaker and less consistent than those from hybrids, both with tanking or healing specs.

Mages usually rely first on prevention. Ice Barrier is the current choice and, in previous expansions, Mana Shield as well, since it allows us to deal with unavoidable damage (instant dots, ranged instant attacks) in the absence of heals. I think that the loss of the Mana Shield is the cause of why Temporal Shield an Blazing Speed aren't considered good for pvp, the lack of an absorption is noticeable for the class; giving us a weaker absorv as baseline may make the tier more flexible, with Ice Barrier replacing the spell if picked. Other pure dps are either limited (warlocks, with Sacrifical Pact) or have none (hunters and rogues); in this, absorvs are our equivalent of self heals.

Second, we rely on high-quality control. While mages do not always have more ccs than other classes in quantity, we usually have ones of better quality and with good synergy overall. Spammable cc, many in a short cd, many long ranged ones, good duration, chainable, excellent snares, Mirror Images is basically a snare-spamming turret for 30s, not dependable on the enemy's actions, not hindered by bad luck and are effectively applicable before we take damage.

This is noticeable when leveling alts; Scatter Shot, as a comparison, has low range and a 30s cd to disorient for 4s; it also can be dodged. The follow up, Freezing Trap, is a 30s cd that depends on enemy's actions (positioning), may freeze the wrong target if someone else steps on it, usually a dps trying to prevent his healer from being cc'ed or a mage sending his water elemental on the trap to get it frozen instead of its master. Sometimes, even a Mirror Image may end stepping on it by accident. Compared with Polymorph, which has no cd, is 30yd range and chainable with itself, the Hunter has difficulties to keep someone out of action.

This control also provides excellent kiting capabilities for us, usually better than those seen in other classes; most consider that only hunters compete with mages in this regard. This also reduces our need for self healing.

Summing it all, they probably consider the mage toolkit strong enough in survivability, without need for addition of consistent healing. Rogues gained Recuperate because they were suffering a lot with leveling and soloing content due to their defense relying on long cds (strong ones, but still long), RNG avoidance and non-spammable cc in a class that puts itself in melee range; with little damage mitigation, almost no armor and no healing, the class had a considerable downtime, and they decided to buff one of these three.

Hunters, I guess it was considered a small or situational effect, like our Cold Snap healing and glyph of Evocation. Warlocks, they received an overhaul, with many masochist spells and tanking options; not a wonder that they have better self-healing than other pure dps classes, their toolkit have excellent interaction with it.
12/08/2012 06:25 AMPosted by Negishi
Show me one mage that can "global" a player. You do realize that a "global" is one GCD (Global Cool Down). I've never seen a mage 1 shot anyone. Please, tell me how it's done, I need to learn2mage better.

It is possible to smash a Frostbolt + Ice Lance Shatter combo into a Deep Freeze at the same time that Frost bomb explodes. A high-geared player doing this to a lower-geared player will probably global them, assuming they are dispelled.
12/07/2012 04:50 PMPosted by Ðimensionx
mages are retarded, should get nerfed. its allready a god class which can global anything in a deep. if you add selfheals you should give it plate armor too. so it can tank


Oh look. Another pally complaining about Mages.

You're all sounding like a broken record. Please refer to all of your "OH$#%&" buttons before you start complaining.
12/09/2012 08:56 PMPosted by Koviko
It is possible to smash a Frostbolt + Ice Lance Shatter combo into a Deep Freeze at the same time that Frost bomb explodes. A high-geared player doing this to a lower-geared player will probably global them, assuming they are dispelled.


Okay, so we're talking after a frost bomb has been applied, timing it within the 3 second window, applying a deepfreeze, and sending a frostbolt and ice lance within that same frame?

That's a combo, a global.
I am sure people will flame me for asking since we are fotm epic damage ez mode in pvp right now, but I am genuinely curious.

All the other pure dps classes have self heals baseline, than us (correct me if I am wrong).

Rogues, locks and warriors all have some good self heals, but all we have is evocation with a glyph which needs to be channeled and can be interrupted.

We get shield to mitigate damage but they can be purged.

Is there something I am missing?


You have Invisibility, 2 Ice Blocks of complete immunity, blink from any stun, roots, Mirror Image for confusion, and Evocation glyphed for heals, frost bomb, frost orb, ring of frost way to much control you control every fight? You only fight because you want to Mages can get away easily.
lol so many people raging; perfect!
12/06/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Scorchlight
We have pretty good self healing... Cold Snap is a 30% heal, both Ice Barrier and Temporal Shield are heals, and Evocation with glyph heals a !@#$load. Spellsteal glyphed is also a heal. We also have Healing Touch from symbiosis, and we can conjure food (sheep + eat food = heal). Also if you are low and a warrior or hunter reflects, you can sheep yourself for a heal. I feel like this is less of a "mages have no healing" issue and more of a L2P issue.


lol at this.

spellsteal nerfed, 3 and you're oom, ice barrier nerfed, abosrbs 50k damage and a sheep is easy to break.So if you sheep yourself you'll most likely have it broken within the next second (since dots/poisons break it and i think every class has one).

i played a druid in 2s yesterday went to full health while running around a pole with rejuvenation, and was still 80% mana.
12/06/2012 02:08 PMPosted by Scorchlight
We have pretty good self healing... Cold Snap is a 30% heal, both Ice Barrier and Temporal Shield are heals, and Evocation with glyph heals a !@#$load. Spellsteal glyphed is also a heal. We also have Healing Touch from symbiosis, and we can conjure food (sheep + eat food = heal). Also if you are low and a warrior or hunter reflects, you can sheep yourself for a heal. I feel like this is less of a "mages have no healing" issue and more of a L2P issue.


Spell steal...really? 3 of those your out of mana and if your talking PvP by the time you "heal" from spell steal that health is already gone. Symbiosis is dependent on ANOTHER CLASS, so that does not count.

Your left with cold snap, if chosen. And Evocation if glyph. Evocation breaks if your sneezed on. I think what the OP was looking for was some kind of heal over time crap like other self heals seem to be for pure DPS class.

I say on the other hand instead of "Why don't mages have good self heal" how about why in the hell does EVERY CLASS even have a self heal?

Someone help me out with a time line. I quit in the first year of WoW's release and came back in Cata. When did classes get so gimpy that everyone needed some self heal, and pets just to play?

Self heal what I remember was called FIRST AID skill.
So what the hell happened?

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