Dream Hotfix on Death Knights in Patch 5.2

Death Knight
Good intentions, but if most of these where applied we'd be extremely op. If they are going to buff are survival and utility then I feel we should take a hit to damage dropping us by a small number. But that would not balance us PvE wise. From what I've heard blizzard only cares about PvE so expecting things to implemented for PvP balance is unlikely specially

- Conversion has a new passive for us to increase our runic power generation by 50%.

That is extremely over powered for PvE.

- Glyph of Death and Decay now increases the radius of Death and Decay by 500%.
- Glyph of Anti Magic Zone now increases the radius of Anti Magic Zone by 500%.

Over powered for PvE as well

12/06/2012 06:55 AMPosted by Uzuko
- Death Siphon damage increased by 300% (Tune down if you want, this sounds a bit too much)

300% maybe to much, I feel 200%-150% maybe be better.

-- Passive: Increases the effectiveness of presences by 50%, you may now swap presences without losing runic power.
-- Active: Increases the effectiveness of presences by 100% but disables the passive while on cooldown. 30 second cooldown.

No... just no. 50% increase and 100% increase with a 30sec cooldown? This only benefits unholy and blood atm. Being able to switch for free does not change the fact that both specs have improved which gives the good stuff. Even worst you would lower Frost Strikes cost to about 10... and.... that'd be to much spam. A revised version of this (granting different effects based on which presence you are in and what spec you are) may do better.

- Icebound Fortitude damage reduction is increased to 35% up from 20%
- Icebound Fortitude no longer cost Runic Power
- Icebound Fortitude is now 1.5 minute cooldown down from 3 minute


2 minutes and will call it even.

That is my two cents on it :D


Thank you for a good feedback Falrin. :) I guess there are certain things that i kinda went overboard. At least you are not THAT rude when it comes to my intentions unlike some people.

Ah well, i guess there are certain things that people want to have. Overall at least.
Asphyxiate already functions as a silence when the target is immune to stuns.
12/06/2012 01:21 PMPosted by Uzuko
Thank you for a good feedback Falrin. :) I guess there are certain things that i kinda went overboard. At least you are not THAT rude when it comes to my intentions unlike some people.


Well the first two it was kinda hard not to be rude sorry :/ there was no way to change them with it out being over powered. How ever for Death and Decay having a glyph that increases the AoE by 150% would be better. It is sounding to much like the warlock buffs which is a talent. If we reduce the cost of conversion then it may be better. It would be nice to see a talent that gives each presence its own unique ability regardless of you spec. Such as being in frost presence grants you hungering cold, while being in unholy grants you some form of unholy damage spell I really don't know. Being in blood grants an ability called vampirism causing your attacks to leech 5% of the damage you deal as healing. This would be called "Amplified presences" and passively makes switching stances cost only 25% of your runic power.

Amplified Presences- Passively makes switching presences cost only 25% of your current runic power. Upon entering a presence you have access to new ability with a shared 1 minute cool down (or 30 seconds depending). Upon switching presences during the spell effect you will lose its benefit. (So you have to remain in the stance to receive the full benefit of the spell)
Blood Presence- Grants Runic Vampirism, Costs 20 runic power. Causes any damaging attack that costs a rune to heal the caster for 5% of the damage done to the target (aoe will only do the healing that is done to the primary target)
Frost Presence- You gain access to Hungering Cold, Costs 20 runic power. You cause a void of heat in the surrounding area freezing all targets in a 9 yard area for 6 seconds. Diseases do not break the cc but any direct damage will.
Unholy Presence- Unstable Diease, costs 20 runic power. You place a disease that lasts for 30 seconds upon your current target, it does shadow damage so it is increased only by unholy's mastery. It slowly increases it damage over time (so starts at a lower amount and at its highest will be dealing 1.5x the damage of blood plague) for all purposes and effects it is a disease and increases the damage of UNHOLY* specific ablities. Festering strike does not increase or refresh it.
12/06/2012 01:07 PMPosted by Aiztam
TL;DR Nerf our damage, buff our utilities and survivability.


!@#$ that noise. Keep your damn PvP whining out of my PvE.
12/06/2012 07:06 AMPosted by Mórrígan
Hungering Cold... yes do want back! REALLY do not understand why they removed this. :(


Paladins needed another stun is why.
pve nerds
12/06/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Fálrin
Thank you for a good feedback Falrin. :) I guess there are certain things that i kinda went overboard. At least you are not THAT rude when it comes to my intentions unlike some people.


Well the first two it was kinda hard not to be rude sorry :/ there was no way to change them with it out being over powered. How ever for Death and Decay having a glyph that increases the AoE by 150% would be better. It is sounding to much like the warlock buffs which is a talent. If we reduce the cost of conversion then it may be better. It would be nice to see a talent that gives each presence its own unique ability regardless of you spec. Such as being in frost presence grants you hungering cold, while being in unholy grants you some form of unholy damage spell I really don't know. Being in blood grants an ability called vampirism causing your attacks to leech 5% of the damage you deal as healing. This would be called "Amplified presences" and passively makes switching stances cost only 25% of your runic power.

Amplified Presences- Passively makes switching presences cost only 25% of your current runic power. Upon entering a presence you have access to new ability with a shared 1 minute cool down (or 30 seconds depending). Upon switching presences during the spell effect you will lose its benefit. (So you have to remain in the stance to receive the full benefit of the spell)
Blood Presence- Grants Runic Vampirism, Costs 20 runic power. Causes any damaging attack that costs a rune to heal the caster for 5% of the damage done to the target (aoe will only do the healing that is done to the primary target)
Frost Presence- You gain access to Hungering Cold, Costs 20 runic power. You cause a void of heat in the surrounding area freezing all targets in a 9 yard area for 6 seconds. Diseases do not break the cc but any direct damage will.
Unholy Presence- Unstable Diease, costs 20 runic power. You place a disease that lasts for 30 seconds upon your current target, it does shadow damage so it is increased only by unholy's mastery. It slowly increases it damage over time (so starts at a lower amount and at its highest will be dealing 1.5x the damage of blood plague) for all purposes and effects it is a disease and increases the damage of UNHOLY* specific ablities. Festering strike does not increase or refresh it.


I actually would like to see if Deathquoi would like this kind of idea. I for one that this may be better than mine but I seriously don't know if this is such a good idea since i have some doubts. Even though i actually like it. But you're right, i think my idea of Presence Amplification would be too much.
I want them to not look at DKs, happiest I've been with them in a long time.
well we know this guy isn't going to be working at blizzard any time soon.

Lol at death siphon buffs yep let's have a blood tank on elegon able to hit for 200k with death siphon which in turn heals him for 200k for a single death rune (effectively the same as letting him spam death pact).

empowered presences and conversion is also lol. +50% runic power gen and an extra 10% on frost presence? that means obliterate would generate 36 runic power while frost strike costs 10 runic power.

stun and silence makes no sense since you cant cast while stunned anyway.
12/06/2012 08:30 PMPosted by Aldmos
Lol at death siphon buffs yep let's have a blood tank on elegon able to hit for 200k with death siphon which in turn heals him for 200k for a single death rune (effectively the same as letting him spam death pact).


Yes it is to insane, perhaps a 200% increase to damage and it heals for half the amount? It is hard to balance but if you think about it it actually deals the same amount of damage as howling blast even more for mastery frost. The problem is it is shadowed by an extremely easy heal and people just forget how awesome it is. Perhaps keeping the damage at normal but causing the heal to be 150%. It also has a longer range then howling blast does at 40 yards, but costs a death rune. If it costed an unholy rune I'd choose it over death pact any day.
Could make Death Siphon scale off strength and modify by presence to balance it, vengeance buffering it is rather broken, but the big elephant in that tier is that Death Pact is just too good for it's cost. I've only used Death Siphon on a couple encounters that had high damage buffs, Garalon, Elegon and Windlord specifically.
the whole point of the current talent tree is that you use different talents for different fights.
12/06/2012 06:25 PMPosted by Uzuko


Well the first two it was kinda hard not to be rude sorry :/ there was no way to change them with it out being over powered. How ever for Death and Decay having a glyph that increases the AoE by 150% would be better. It is sounding to much like the warlock buffs which is a talent. If we reduce the cost of conversion then it may be better. It would be nice to see a talent that gives each presence its own unique ability regardless of you spec. Such as being in frost presence grants you hungering cold, while being in unholy grants you some form of unholy damage spell I really don't know. Being in blood grants an ability called vampirism causing your attacks to leech 5% of the damage you deal as healing. This would be called "Amplified presences" and passively makes switching stances cost only 25% of your runic power.

Amplified Presences- Passively makes switching presences cost only 25% of your current runic power. Upon entering a presence you have access to new ability with a shared 1 minute cool down (or 30 seconds depending). Upon switching presences during the spell effect you will lose its benefit. (So you have to remain in the stance to receive the full benefit of the spell)
Blood Presence- Grants Runic Vampirism, Costs 20 runic power. Causes any damaging attack that costs a rune to heal the caster for 5% of the damage done to the target (aoe will only do the healing that is done to the primary target)
Frost Presence- You gain access to Hungering Cold, Costs 20 runic power. You cause a void of heat in the surrounding area freezing all targets in a 9 yard area for 6 seconds. Diseases do not break the cc but any direct damage will.
Unholy Presence- Unstable Diease, costs 20 runic power. You place a disease that lasts for 30 seconds upon your current target, it does shadow damage so it is increased only by unholy's mastery. It slowly increases it damage over time (so starts at a lower amount and at its highest will be dealing 1.5x the damage of blood plague) for all purposes and effects it is a disease and increases the damage of UNHOLY* specific ablities. Festering strike does not increase or refresh it.


I actually would like to see if Deathquoi would like this kind of idea. I for one that this may be better than mine but I seriously don't know if this is such a good idea since i have some doubts. Even though i actually like it. But you're right, i think my idea of Presence Amplification would be too much.


I don't really hate it, but I think the general trend has been away from stance-dependent spells and abilities (look at warriors).
A lot of these hotfixes seem outrageously powerful, and would totally break DK's. There are a few I could get behind however, such as a buff to IBF or making Bone Shield baseline. Here are hotfixes I would like to see.

-Icebound Fortitude no longer costs runic power.
-The cooldown of Icebound Fortitude has been reduced to 1 min, down from 3 min.
-The duration of Icebound Fortitude has be reduced to 8 sec, down from 12.
-Sanguine Fortitude has been removed as a passive for Blood Spec.
-Glyph of Icebound Fortitude is now Glyph of Sanguine Fortitude.
-Glyph of Sanguine Fortitude: Your Icebound Fortitude's duration is increased by 50% and reduces damage taken by an additional 30%, but its cooldown is increased by 200%
- Bone Shield is now available to all specs, now reduces the duration of disarm effects by 50%, and cost 1 blood rune.
- Necrotic Strike now costs an unholy rune instead of a death rune.
- The damage and healing of Death Siphon for characters level 85 and higher has been increased by 200%. Death Siphon now has a 15 sec cooldown.
- Each time you are healed with Conversion, you have a 15% chance to activate a random fully depleted rune.
- Scourge Strike now costs a blood rune instead of an unholy rune.
- Festering Strike now costs a Frost and Unholy rune.
- Shadow Infusion has been replaced by Shadows of the Grave.
- Shadows of the Grave: Your successful Death Coils summon a Shambling Corpse to fight by your side for 30 sec. Stacks up to 5 times.
- Dark Transformation: Sacrifice 5 Shambling Corpses to transform your ghoul into an Undead Monstrosity for 30 sec. The ghoul's abilities are empowered and take on new functions while the transformation is active.
This is a massive list of unnecessary buffs. DK's are in a great spot in pve, and need no changes there, and in pvp they only really need some of the more overpowered classes to be toned down, and possibly an IBF damage reduction buff.

As for people wanting HC back - it's never going to happen. It was overpowered when combined with Death Grip, and putting a cast time on it was just a clunky fix when they couldn't come up with anything better short of removing the whole ability.

In terms of pure QoL buffs, I'd like to see Strang taken off gcd and the rune cost removed to make it possible to be used reactively. The c/d is fine considering we have an interrupt as well. The healing tier of talents could use some number rebalancing, as Death Siphon and Conversion are too weak. Making Death Siphon heal for a set percentage of your health rather than based on the damage it does would help.

DK's really aren't far off being spot on.
12/07/2012 05:42 AMPosted by Deathquoi
I don't really hate it, but I think the general trend has been away from stance-dependent spells and abilities (look at warriors).


It isn't stance dancing like Arms warrior was in PvE back in Cata, it is more situational presences. I feel this would be a unique way for players to be able to hop between blood and frost. You will most likely never see unholy switch to frost or vice versa, but switching to blood for survival is a common thing. But unlike warriors we don't have any defensive CD's that our blood presence only. This will also help balance unholy's damage with frost by adding in an extra disease that augment unholy spec only abilities.
12/07/2012 01:48 PMPosted by Fálrin
I don't really hate it, but I think the general trend has been away from stance-dependent spells and abilities (look at warriors).


It isn't stance dancing like Arms warrior was in PvE back in Cata, it is more situational presences. I feel this would be a unique way for players to be able to hop between blood and frost. You will most likely never see unholy switch to frost or vice versa, but switching to blood for survival is a common thing. But unlike warriors we don't have any defensive CD's that our blood presence only. This will also help balance unholy's damage with frost by adding in an extra disease that augment unholy spec only abilities.


You don't think people would stance dance into frost to use hungering cold?
12/07/2012 02:03 PMPosted by Deathquoi


It isn't stance dancing like Arms warrior was in PvE back in Cata, it is more situational presences. I feel this would be a unique way for players to be able to hop between blood and frost. You will most likely never see unholy switch to frost or vice versa, but switching to blood for survival is a common thing. But unlike warriors we don't have any defensive CD's that our blood presence only. This will also help balance unholy's damage with frost by adding in an extra disease that augment unholy spec only abilities.


You don't think people would stance dance into frost to use hungering cold?

With a 1 minute cool down? Or did you not read that it was a 1 minute cool down across all presences. They have to choose which one they want to use when that minute is up. Stance dancing was never like that. Perhaps reading would help.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum