What tool(s) do you use to tune your mage?

Mage
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I'm asking because I want to properly go to arcane, not sure what sites/tools can accurately provide a true optimal recommendation - rather than using old numbers/models.

When I was fire I used askmrrobot, but not sure if it's any good for other specs.

Just wanted to check before I spent gold on gems/chants and such.

Thanks for any help you can give.
I use SimC and ask Mr. Robot.

In my opinion arcane is a very broken spec mechanically. You can stack haste or mastery, use frost armor or mage armor, and see roughly the same output. Some swear haste is better, some swear mastery is better. Mathematically they're about equal with only a slight edge going towards haste until you get to about 30% haste buffed, then mastery starts to be slightly better.

In short: You'll be fine using the default weights on Ask Mr Robot. Or you can switch the values for haste/mastery. It's up to you.
www.wowreforge.com

Pretty useful when I want to reforge my stuffs. Which reminds me I should be doing just that.
Worldoflogs.com

look at what other mages are outputting, how hard their spells are hitting, how many procs on average they are getting then look at their armory and tune accordingly.

I don't trust simc anymore.
Nothing, now. Rawr and Simcraft are no longer maintained at an acceptable level, there isn't even a Frost thread on EJ, and the Icy Veins guide is not in-depth or recent enough.
Worldoflogs.com

look at what other mages are outputting, how hard their spells are hitting, how many procs on average they are getting then look at their armory and tune accordingly.

I don't trust simc anymore.


Simcraft is a tool just like everything else. Just because the real world numbers with an infinite number of variables like aoe, cleave, and burst windows doesn't match up with simcraft doesn't render the tool obsolete. Its like saying "I don't trust doctors because I got a bad diagnosis once". If you think doctor errors are bad, you should see the patient errors.
Simcraft is a broken tool. None of the modules are up to date, regardless of what some website is saying.
12/07/2012 12:35 PMPosted by Mahourai
Simcraft is a broken tool. None of the modules are up to date, regardless of what some website is saying.


If its so broken then why are the stat weights consistently in line with what hard core raiders have been experimenting with?
12/07/2012 12:35 PMPosted by Mahourai
Simcraft is a broken tool. None of the modules are up to date, regardless of what some website is saying.


False.

SimCraft is fine (albeit still a beta.) The BIS profiles could use some work but you really shouldn't be using those to find information on your own character.

You can also tweak the action priority to whatever you want if you know what you're doing. I don't get the sudden fear of math people have been expressing.
12/07/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Mumrit
Simcraft is a broken tool. None of the modules are up to date, regardless of what some website is saying.


False.

SimCraft is fine (albeit still a beta.)


The author of the Mage Simcraft module said in this very forum that it hadn't been updated since beta. As in the MOP beta.


False.

SimCraft is fine (albeit still a beta.)


The author of the Mage Simcraft module said in this very forum that it hadn't been updated since beta. As in the MOP beta.

I think you're confused about what they were saying. There are three parts to SimCraft:
1.) The program itself which has the data for which spell does what, mana regen, etc
2.) The action priority list
3.) The 'characters' you can import (Your own, standard BIS lists)

Number two and number three haven't been updated.

However, if you know what you're doing, you can tweak number two. It's not difficult to pick it up at all. For example I did a bunch of tests with arcane this week with clearing stacks, using scorch instead of clearing stacks, etc.

Character templates aren't a real concern, since you can import your own character (and should be to find your personal stat weights)

Here's the change log, clearly showing class changes are up to date (Such as the CM and combustion nerfs)
http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft/wiki/ReleaseNotes
I did not say that SimC is wrong. I said that I do not trust it 100%. Putting all of your faith in simcrafting is myopic. However, I do think there is a place for simC.

SimC is good for showing you what 100% optimal situations will yield. This is great if you want to work on your rotation. I spent a lot of time early on running sims on my theoretical output on test dummies just so I knew whether I was doing it "right" or not. Do not mistake this for learning how to output great damage in a raid encounter. Very rarely will you get to sit in one spot and turret. Every encounter provides different variables. How you deal with these variables will give you better or worse results. For example there are different things that mages are trying on Lei Shi with varied success. SimC isn't going to help you here.

Mediocre mages stick to rotations ---> top mages improvise

For this reason I prefer to look at logs. I would rather see what mages are doing in live encounters. How do my number of casts compare to theirs? Are they casting more of a specific spell than me? Are they hitting harder? If they are hitting harder is it because I am using my cooldowns at the wrong times or because their gear is better?

Learn to understand how and why something is being cast and you'll improve. Get your nose out of your calculator and play some jazz...
I did not say that SimC is wrong. I said that I do not trust it 100%. Putting all of your faith in simcrafting is myopic. However, I do think there is a place for simC.

SimC is good for showing you what 100% optimal situations will yield. This is great if you want to work on your rotation. I spent a lot of time early on running sims on my theoretical output on test dummies just so I knew whether I was doing it "right" or not. Do not mistake this for learning how to output great damage in a raid encounter. Very rarely will you get to sit in one spot and turret. Every encounter provides different variables. How you deal with these variables will give you better or worse results. For example there are different things that mages are trying on Lei Shi with varied success. SimC isn't going to help you here.

Mediocre mages stick to rotations ---> top mages improvise

For this reason I prefer to look at logs. I would rather see what mages are doing in live encounters. How do my number of casts compare to theirs? Are they casting more of a specific spell than me? Are they hitting harder? If they are hitting harder is it because I am using my cooldowns at the wrong times or because their gear is better?

Learn to understand how and why something is being cast and you'll improve. Get your nose out of your calculator and play some jazz...


Top mages don't improvise their priorities, they follow them. That's why they are priorities. Logs will only show you the most egregious rotational flaws, and are usually used to monitor buff uptimes like invoker's energy. Mages are a proc oriented class in all 3 specs, whether its arcane missiles, fof or heating up or how these procs line up with automatic buffs like lightweave or light of the cosmos will affect their hitting power. Logs will not tell you anything with 5-10% variations in the number of one spell cast vs. other spells. Logs will also not tell you how to balance your stats around your current gear set up. You need a simulation for this information.

If your point was "you have to adjust for a real fight" then the only response is no !@#$, Sherlock. That's not what we're discussing here and you could have saved yourself several lines instead of saying something that's irrelevant to anyone with the skill cap to handle normal modes. We aren't sitting here drooling on our keyboards while we melt in a fire pit because our priority said to keep casting fireball.
@Medivh

Your condescension is dubious. Before going off on an arrogant rant perhaps first compare your progression to mine.
12/07/2012 02:37 PMPosted by Gravitation
SimC is good for showing you what 100% optimal situations will yield.

The helter skelter sim is far and away from an optimal situation.

Logs will also not tell you how to balance your stats around your current gear set up. You need a simulation for this information.

The pertinent question in this thread was "What tools do you use to tune your mage?" Thus comments like:
Get your nose out of your calculator

Aren't really needed.
@Medivh

Your condescension is dubious. Before going off on an arrogant rant perhaps first compare your progression to mine.


I'm not interested in measuring epeen. Your progression doesn't make you correct, it makes your guild strong and my comments are no more condescending than your (stupid) comment "get your nose out of your calculator". If you don't want to be condescended to don't be condescending and stupid.

You also need to learn what the word "rant" means since the bulk of my prior comment was directly addressed why logs are unreliable to form the foundation of your DPS theorycrafting, I had a sum total of 2 sentences regarding your condescending attitude. That doesn't constitute a rant.
Carry on folks, nothing else to see here, two theorycrafting dorks going on and on about their math without experiencing normal/heroic mode end content.
12/07/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Gravitation
Carry on folks, nothing else to see here, two theorycrafting dorks going on and on about their math without experiencing normal/heroic mode end content.


You must be just a delight to raid with. Got a couple extra bosses than my guild and all of a sudden you think you know better than every theorycrafting tool ever used.

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