Perks each class has for Challenge Modes?

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
Does such a list exist? The thought came because I want to do Challenge Modes in the near future but I wasn't sure if I should go Ret or Prot. I then started thinking of how I have just recently came back to the game so I'm not even sure what new CC and other abilities each class has anymore, especially Monks.

Anyone know if there is easy accessible information like that or is willing to throw something together? If not I'll just try to research it myself the hard way but figured I might as well ask the question.
IMO I'd suggest Prot. As Challenge Modes are much easier with 3 Caster Range DPS and 1 Melee Tank. Easier not impossible with melee but it's much easier to find DPS than it is to find Tanks.
caster perks: not being melee

i'd recommend ret over prot, prot does weak damage (get a dk, makes everything 10x easier), and ret specced into divine purpose can burn down trash really quick (plus you can just heal yourself as needed)
Ret is one of the weaker melee specs for CMs. You don't bring AoE stuns like a dk, monk, warrior or shaman and no stealth like a rogue. That said prot pallies aren't too desirable either, blood dks are clearly superior with warriors probably second best. That said short of something silly like triple melee any comp should be able to get all golds, the biggest trick is going to be finding someone to take a ret or prot pally since they aren't particularly desirable.
I would recommend bringing a shaman that isn't resto. We have and AoE stun, interrupts, purge, CC, lust, stormlash and pretty awesome DPS.

Except as Resto. Resto shaman just can't pull the dps numbers that other healers can, and for a lot o fights, you do need the healers DPSing, or to switch specs entirely. I'm all for a challenge but I'd prefer it be balanced around the traditional comp...
12/08/2012 09:31 PMPosted by Ninetales
I would recommend bringing a shaman that isn't resto.


But... :(
12/08/2012 08:39 PMPosted by Fierydemise
Ret is one of the weaker melee specs for CMs. You don't bring AoE stuns like a dk, monk, warrior or shaman and no stealth like a rogue. That said prot pallies aren't too desirable either, blood dks are clearly superior with warriors probably second best. That said short of something silly like triple melee any comp should be able to get all golds, the biggest trick is going to be finding someone to take a ret or prot pally since they aren't particularly desirable.


What? Retribution paladins are an amazing contribution to CM groups.

They have solid AoE damage, their burst is one of the highest on single target and the hand spells are really really good. They in my opinion are one of the better melee, with DKs obviously being the best for them.

Don't underestimate extra hands, devotion and hybrid healing.
Also, glyph of blinding light gives a (long cd, 2minutes) aoe stun.
At first I had trouble justifying Retribution but thinking about it more I could see it being useful.

First from what I read about Glyph of Mass Exorcism it seems it increases aoe damage a great deal and should probably be looked into for people who have not taken advantage (as I have not but I've only been 90 for a day!). Glyph of Blinding Light looks alright but do stuns diminish each other in PVE as they do in PVP? If so a 3-second stun won't be worth much when it is diminishing or is being diminished by more valuable stuns.

In the little PVE experience I've had at 90 running several heroics today my damage does seem to be consistently very high on single target, but I don't have the experience to say how good Ret Paladin damage is or is not. On the other hand I can see the argument that Devotion Aura can be very useful but I can't imagine the various Hand spells getting much mileage in CMs. Mostly I can only see Hand of Sacrifice being potentially useful, but it doesn't really reduce damage just transfers it so I don't know.
What? Retribution paladins are an amazing contribution to CM groups.

They have solid AoE damage, their burst is one of the highest on single target and the hand spells are really really good. They in my opinion are one of the better melee, with DKs obviously being the best for them.

Don't underestimate extra hands, devotion and hybrid healing.

I'm trying to think through CMs about when the various hand spells would come in handy and I'm not seeing it. I didn't run with a ret pally so maybe I'm not seeing it because we didn't have to build our comp around it.

List of melee CM utility
Frost DK: Strong AoE, Army, RW
Enhance: HTT/AG, Strong Burst, Eles, Cap Totem, Lust
Rogue: Strong AoE, Mass Stealth
Ret: Strong AoE, Strong Burst, Hands, Off Healing
Warrior: Shockwave, Strong AoE, Strong Burst'
Monk: Leg Sweep, Off Healing, Strong AoE

Looking at this list I'd say frost DKs followed by enhance shamans are probably your strongest melee dps. After that its more of comp specific toss up, if I had to put a rank I'd say warriors, ret, rogue, monk although that shuffles around per CM and based on what your comp needs.
12/08/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Rags
I would recommend bringing a shaman that isn't resto.


But... :(


shut up rags.
All melee bring a little something to the table. I think Frost DKs are obviously the best, mostly because of AoTD though.

Melee individually aren't that bad but you start to see massive diminishing returns from bringing more than one.

Basically the margin for error and unavoidable melee damage starts to become pretty apparent when you bring 2+ melee ;(
12/08/2012 10:30 PMPosted by Gròmmash
Melee individually aren't that bad but you start to see massive diminishing returns from bringing more than one.

As I was writing that list above I realized that. Each melee dps has a decent toolkit, all melee have at the very least Strong AoE or Strong burst with many having both plus a decent selection of AoE stuns or other lockdown abilities. I'm also very aware of the challenges of adding an extra melee to the mix, I ran with a frost dk and ele shaman and there were more then a few times we cursed our comp (also monk tank) realizing we'd be having a much easier time if I was a hunter for example.
I've gotten 5 golds so far as ret, and we're close to our 6th, including US 29th (at the time, now 35th) Mogu'shan Palace and US 68th Scholo with lots of mistakes, so ret is entirely viable. I will say, however, that having a dk tank helps a lot. From my personal experience, the best way to maximize dps as ret is to use your dps cds on aoe trash packs and nuke the crap out of them. I normally wind up doing similar overall damage as our hunter due to both having heavy aoe, with our lock coming in 3rd, but he is valuable on maintaining high boss damage due to heavy dots.

If i could make some recommendations if you do decide to go ret (and I'd recommend it over prot because dk or war will be a lot better, but play what you want to) this is what I've been finding works out the best. Also, like I said before, generally you want to use cds on trash, but if you're using bloodlust/timewarp on a boss make sure at least some cd will available to take advantage of it, the more the merrier.

Talent Fist of Justice for frequent stuns, unless your tank wants the vengeance from more damage, or your group needs you to Repentance something. Talenting Clemency lets you keep Hand of Sacrifice on the tank for quite a while, and using that with glyphed divine protection reduces overall damage while spreading it at the same time, really nice for your healer. BoPing the healer if he pulls aggro while the tank is stunned/whatever can save your run. Holy avenger is really really nice for aoeing down huge packs quickly, and is more consistent than DP.

It is absolutely imperative that you take Light's Hammer, it does a lot of damage on trash packs, plus the aoe healing is nice. If you do nothing else I suggest at least take Light's Hammer. It's a toss up between Sacred Shield for mitigation on the tank or Selfless Healer for the better (emergency?) off-heals. Just ask your healer what he/she'd rather you take. SH might be better if your group isn't the greatest at avoiding damage, as the fulled stacked FoL can top ppl off from low health. If you're extremely tight on dps use Sacred Shield because it will waste less gcds. Also, glyph of mass exo is your lover, it's the greatest thing ever as long as you are good about staying in melee range. Take glyph of double jeopardy for a minor dps gain. Depending on the dungeon if bosses are more dangerous take glyph of templar's verdict, if you want more self-healing on trash take glyph of divine storm.

Also, make sure coordinate your Devotion Aura with the tank/healer. Aside from the magic dam reduction, the immunity to silence/interrupt can great in certain circumstances. If you run with a blood dk, Lay on Hands is really buggy on DK tanks who just procced Purgatory, so FoL them if that happens do not waste your LoH.

Probably the most important thing is to make sure that all of your gear is ilvl 463 or better, and you're at 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise. After that make sure to use flasks and food, 1250 to 1300 more str is HUGE for your dps when you're sitting at 463 ilvl.

Lastly, just as an aside, you can bubble off a lot of nasty stuff, like when Conflagrate is on you during the first boss on Mogu'shan Palace, so find the places where you can make the most use of it.

Edit: I forgot to mention that you want to use HotR at 2-3 targets (varies based on your gear) and divine storm at 2, but keep using Seal of Truth for everything unless there are going to be 6-8 mobs alive for around 30 secs, which there really shouldn't be. If for some strange reason there are, swap to Seal of the Righteous.
As I was writing that list above I realized that. Each melee dps has a decent toolkit, all melee have at the very least Strong AoE or Strong burst with many having both plus a decent selection of AoE stuns or other lockdown abilities. I'm also very aware of the challenges of adding an extra melee to the mix, I ran with a frost dk and ele shaman and there were more then a few times we cursed our comp (also monk tank) realizing we'd be having a much easier time if I was a hunter for example.


Army of Dead from a frost DK can trivialize some of the "harder" pulls, like SM.
If you didn't do CMS already you missed your chance.

Talent swapping and rolling SW and HA at same time is no longer possible and was a huge strength for extremely large aoe packs. DMCS which were the BIS CM trinkets are now nerfed in CMS by about 300 proc, and warrior tanks can't execute as large in 5.1 as before.

Since it's no longer possible you need to roll between SW and DP the entire instance and keep that UI reloaded so you don't error out on glyph / talent swaps.

Lots of invis and mogu pots.

LOTSSSSSSSSSSSSS of food and a hefty amount of flasks. CHallenge modes aren't GG casual mode expect to spend 60-90 hours getting full gold.
So you're complaining that an unintended functionality that let us stack multiple talents that were clearly never intended to be used together was fixed?

Also, are you sure that DMCs were actually nerfed in CMs and it wasn't just a tooltip fix?
Balhale is pretty much right, but I would like to mention that you really don't need to talent swap at all to get gold times. Just use your cds to nuke big trash pulls and/or during hero and you'll pull your own weight. Watch some youtube vids to get a good strategy and then modify it for your particular group and if everybody plays well you'll get gold. If you're figuring out your own strategies from scratch maybe it will take 60+ hours for 9 golds, but my group hasn't spent more than 6 hours on a single gold, however we've had the advantage of vids to watch, etc. I would recommend, however, that you give yourselves at least a couple hours in a row to work on your strategy, people tend to forget if you only practice an hour at a time.
Bring a warlock. profit.
Brewmaster monk is the most underestimated spec/class for challenges. *Especially* if you're going for region/world time!

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