Blizzard says they want normals hard.

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
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Easy normals were not intended:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/3047-Ion-Hazzikostas-Interview-Method-Interview-Dec-10-Hotfixes-Blue-Posts-Holiday-Art

The addition of LFR has allowed Blizzard to target Normal difficulty more towards organized guilds that play together regularly and use voice chat. Previously, Normal difficulty was used by both organized guilds and PuGs, which made it somewhat easier than intended.


Good for you blizzard, good for you.
12/11/2012 11:19 AMPosted by Nery
It's like I heard a million Saroshas screaming... then suddenly... silenced.


LOL

Well put!
<3 challenging normal modes. T14 is like 10x better than T13.
12/11/2012 11:19 AMPosted by Nery
It's like I heard a million Saroshas screaming... then suddenly... silenced.


Yeah it's weird that his posts were the first thing I thought about when I read that on MMO-Champ today.
Nowhere in that post did they say they weren't easy (they are). All it said is you can't kill them with 0 communication. Aka they are easy, just not faceroll.
12/11/2012 11:29 AMPosted by Ninjablaze
Nowhere in that post did they say they weren't easy (they are). All it said is you can't kill them with 0 communication. Aka they are easy, just not faceroll.


Semantics, semantics. You know what I meant.
It's like Christmas come early!
Semantics, semantics. You know what I meant.


Yeah, but you know how bent out of shape some people get when they see the word 'hard' =P
But its actually not true, I think pretty much everyone agrees this isnt any more difficult than tier 11 and some say its easier.

Its about the same as tier 12- ragnaros

Its also about the same as ICC.

you pretty much have to go all the way back to uldaur to find a harder tier.

The only tier thats significanly easier is DS, which had guess what LFR.

Now as Ive said in the past, LFR is great but its not perfect, people will burn out on LFR in 3 months, now its possible they could be aware of this, and in the same interview they also said that the next raid will be soon.

So it is possible that 5.2 will be as early as feb.

ive said this before, they are setting themselves up an almost impossible to reach bar if they think they can get a 12 boss raid out ever 4-5 months, which is what it will take to keep the LFR crowd.

If they could I might not like it, but I wouldnt really be able to complain because even if LFR players are burning out/fully gearing in 3 to 4 months and raids are hitting in 5...well as I said I might not like it but players will stay.

if however they think they can drag LFR players out for 6-7 months on 3/4 month content, I think they are in for a rude awakening.

Im not too surprised at this, but I dont think the fight is over quite yet.. they are also polling progress on the main page, Im not sure why they are doing this since they actually have all the statistics on who's failing where, but they are.

I think they are trying to get the feel if players feel stuck, I suspect although progressive nerfs have been pushed back, I strongly suspect laser guided nerf bombs are headed in soon and if I was Elegon or Garalon id be nervous right now.

how this will work is all going to depend on the timing of the next raid patch, which from the interview we will be getting information on very soon.

one more thing, GC dungeons are hard blog had exactly the same reaction from the hardcore crowd, see dungeons are supposed to be hard and the devs will keep them that way. Which was followed in the next 2 weeks with the most intensive array of nerfs the game has ever seen. I dont expect this one to be as sudden or drastic, because LFR player burnout/outgear is much more random and personal, but if as I suspect LFR start slowly trickling out of the game pretty much from now till march, I think we will see a change of tune.

Just because they something this week, doesnt mean they wont go completly in another direction next week, you have all been here a long time and you know they do this.
ive said this before, they are setting themselves up an almost impossible to reach bar if they think they can get a 12 boss raid out ever 4-5 months, which is what it will take to keep the LFR crowd.


You're completely ignoring that Normal and Heroic Raiders also want 12 boss raids coming out faster (e.g. every 4-5 months), and the demand for a new raid depends more on that.

LFR is targeted at people who can't commit for organised raiding - it's not even really designed for people who will farm it week after week for 4-5 months in a row.

But its actually not true, I think pretty much everyone agrees this isnt any more difficult than tier 11 and some say its easier.


The actual quote is "The addition of LFR has allowed Blizzard to target Normal difficulty more towards organized guilds that play together regularly and use voice chat. Previously, Normal difficulty was used by both organized guilds and PuGs, which made it somewhat easier than intended."

Basically, that Normal mode is there for people who who voice chat to communicate and make calls during raid as opposed to pure pugs that maybe talk once every wipe if ever - allowing them to ensure that mechanics actually exist as opposed to watering them down so that pugs won't be killed by them, e.g. Shannox or Morchok.
12/11/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Slashlove
ive said this before, they are setting themselves up an almost impossible to reach bar if they think they can get a 12 boss raid out ever 4-5 months, which is what it will take to keep the LFR crowd.


You're completely ignoring that Normal and Heroic Raiders also want 12 boss raids coming out faster (e.g. every 4-5 months), and the demand for a new raid depends more on that.

But its actually not true, I think pretty much everyone agrees this isnt any more difficult than tier 11 and some say its easier.


The actual quote is "The addition of LFR has allowed Blizzard to target Normal difficulty more towards organized guilds that play together regularly and use voice chat. Previously, Normal difficulty was used by both organized guilds and PuGs, which made it somewhat easier than intended."

Basically, that Normal mode is there for people who who voice chat to communicate and make calls during raid as opposed to pure pugs that maybe talk once every wipe if ever - allowing them to ensure that mechanics actually exist as opposed to watering them down so that pugs won't be killed by them, e.g. Shannox or Morchok.


I agree with most of this, if they can actually manage the logistics of 4-5 month raid tiers, I think both LFR and heroic mode raiders willl be happy.

Just based on their history of promising more rapid content patches and never actually managing to pull it off makes me hesitant to be hopefull on this matter.

I just dont see any possible way LFR can last 6-7 months without a big push and subsidy(nerfs/buffs/incentives) to move into normals.

Almost everyone I know manages to get at least 3 of the 5 LFR's and Sha in every single week.

Just because they cant commit to a raid schedule or dont have the skill for raiding, doesnt mean they cant manage to find 3 hours a week to do their LFR's and Sha which are the biggest possible upgrade for time on any character.

And yeah you can do at least 3 and possibly up to 5 LFR's and sha in 3 hours a week.
12/11/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Ninjablaze
Semantics, semantics. You know what I meant.


Yeah, but you know how bent out of shape some people get when they see the word 'hard' =P


Ok ya got me there :P
12/11/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Sarosha
Its also about the same as ICC.


No. ICC and Firelands were not equal difficulty.

ICC was faceroll until Sindrigosa, Putricide, and LK.

12/11/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Sarosha
The only tier thats significanly easier is DS, which had guess what LFR.


TOC would like a word with you.

Hell, Heroic ToC would like a word with you.
12/11/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Nery
Because improving is NEVER an option, right?


Improving is not never an options, but neither is it always an option for many different reasons.

Moving from stuck from stuck on SG to stuck on Elegon is an improvement, its jsut not a meaningful one.
I just dont see any possible way LFR can last 6-7 months without a big push and subsidy(nerfs/buffs/incentives) to move into normals.

I just dont see any possible way LFR can last 6-7 months without a big push and subsidy(nerfs/buffs/incentives) to move into normals.

Almost everyone I know manages to get at least 3 of the 5 LFR's and Sha in every single week.


That's because you can't conceive that people aren't you.

LFR is designed for people who can't commit to organised raiding. This includes people who don't actually do LFR every week. Unless you have better numbers than you think Blizzard does on just how big a proportion of players ARE literally just spitting out gear from LFR for the sake of getting geared out and will quit the moment they have "bis", which would require you to actually show some form of proof instead of pull wild statements out of a hat, you're simply in a position where you assume people who play the game are as bad and have attitudes as bad as you.

In ICC - Normal mode WAS LFR difficulty. Marrowgar was a literal one-shot, and Funship was a fight that was also a literal oneshot on Heroic. Saurfang was a backloaded fight that never got to the back on Normal.

ToC was even easier on Normal mode for the same reason.

When a new raid tier is introduced, guilds don't actually just abandon ship and rush into it. A guild that has 10-11/12N done when 5.2 hits will most likely still be doing Sha of Fear.

Moving from stuck from stuck on SG to stuck on Elegon is an improvement, its jsut not a meaningful one.


Farming 4 raid bosses giving you gear that makes Elegon easier week after week has no meaning?
12/11/2012 12:25 PMPosted by Sarosha
I think they are trying to get the feel if players feel stuck, I suspect although progressive nerfs have been pushed back, I strongly suspect laser guided nerf bombs are headed in soon and if I was Elegon or Garalon id be nervous right now.


I'm much more okay with targeted well thought out nerfs then blind zone wide destruction. I do not like either (other than in the case where something is mathematically overtuned) but thoughtless blind percentages definitely piss me off a lot more. I think a lot of the hold off has been to see how gearing works as an artificial nerf. As I have pointed out in previous posts gear is scaling at a much more rapid pace than it ever has before thus making the fights that much easier with every passing week even without a nerf.
Its also about the same as ICC.


No. ICC and Firelands were not equal difficulty.

ICC was faceroll until Sindrigosa, Putricide, and LK.

The only tier thats significanly easier is DS, which had guess what LFR.


TOC would like a word with you.

Hell, Heroic ToC would like a word with you.


I forgot about Toc, its kinda forgettable

but tier 14 is most closely compared with tier 11 and its aroundish the same difficulty, but tier 11 had no LFR, DS did have LFR but was much easier.

So their point doesnt really hold water all that much.
12/11/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Sarosha
Moving from stuck from stuck on SG to stuck on Elegon is an improvement, its jsut not a meaningful one.


How is 4 bosses not meaningful?

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