"Roll on a PvE server"

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12/12/2012 07:34 PMPosted by Tiandis
So because even though pvp servers are the way they are you unbalanced them with CRZ without offering any compensation for the player base to get off a server...... why is this


Actually, it's the opposite.

Most PvP servers were HEAVILY unbalanced -- extremely dominant for Horde or Alliance (depending on what server). Often times with the dominant faction outnumbering the other 8 to 1 (or more!).

CRZ actually helped balance things out by putting you with other servers. Even if they put 2 or 3 horde dominant pvp servers together, if you're an Alliance player, it still wouldn't be that different.
12/12/2012 07:27 PMPosted by Stochastic
The thing is, it really *isn't* how PvP servers have worked in practice since launch.


Maybe your realm didn't get into it, but I played on Destromath (PvP) in Vanilla, and I remember how certain zones (STV) were simply no-man's-land for questing. Other zones (Hillsbrad) were constant back-and-forth gank fests with each faction taking their turn shutting down the opposite quest hub (Tarren Mill vs. Southshore).

And when BC launched, oh man, Hellfire Peninsula was FULL of PvP - stray too close to one of the PvP objectives, and you were splattered. All of the epic battles for Halaa (and fighting over warbeads and ogre spawns)... not to mention the epic PvP in the Isle of Quel'danas.

Wrath brought a resurgence to ganking new DKs in Hellfire Peninsula, not to mention epic battles over the Naxx (and later, Ulduar) summoning stones (this was back when you could be dismounted by knockbacks... the ground under Naxx was littered with player corpses).

Sethra's Roost, in Cataclysm, was one of the hottest spots on my server - you needed a full party to even have a prayer of completing quests there shortly after launch. And swimming mounts made Vashj'ir perfect for hit-and-run tactics.

With MoP... it's business as usual, on my PvP server. Open world ganking, back-and-forth balance changes depending on who's present. There have been plenty of times where I'm out, doing something innocent, like pet battles in a lower-level zone, only to have people complain about a ganker hitting a quest hub... and I fall on them like a ton of moonkin-shaped bricks.

Many players - myself included - love that. And a lot more don't.

The problem, quite simply, is that players got complacent about what life on a PvP server meant. They forgot just how mean and nasty it can be. And yes, some of the servers "mellowed out" a little.

But that doesn't change what they are.

So while "lol PvP happened" and "don't like it? reroll or transfer PvE" may be a bit blunt and rude... they're still the best explanations as to why you've got a corpse run and how to avoid it permanently, respectively.

It's not for everyone. But those of us who enjoy PvP servers appreciate that - and would encourage you to find a different server type, if it's not your style.

I'm still on Destromath. I still PvP. And I do understand if you don't want to participate - but if you're on a PvP realm, you're fair game.
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I rolled on a PvP server because all of my friends were on a PvP server. I didn't understand why the Horde would sit just below the camp at the north of Stranglethorn and gank me repeatedly. Yet I stuck it out because all of my friends played on this server. Then some friends went Horde on a PvE server and at first I was enamored by the fact that that Alliance couldn't kill me. I could just quest and quest to my heart's content. I got two toons to 85 and into the Firelands, before I went back to my PvP server to get my Alliance toons to level cap. As much as I hated being ganked, Firelands was a completely different experience on a PvP server. Yes, I hate dying in PvP as much as the next person, but there is a certain amount of tension and anticipation about knowing you could get attacked at ANY MOMENT! Yes, my Monk has been ganked in Red Ridge Mountains, in Stanglethorn, and in the Blasted Lands trying to get to Outland, etc. And yes, I have spent an inordinate amount of time time in Stormwind queuing for Randoms, because I was getting ganked. But that's life on a PvP server. When I get tired of it, my Tauren Monk on that neglected PvE server will get some love.
I also hope you'll take into account that the people insulting those who don't like the changes don't really have anything to lose but 'easy' targets. I think most of us aren't looking to change the way the realms work we just want a reasonable way to get ourselves and our guilds off of them. They're trolling hoping they can keep ganking targets instead of actually playing against other people on their servers who are actually looking to pvp.

What you've got is 1 group that wants you to waive some fees to vastly improve their play experience arguing against another that wants to make the 1st groups play experience terrible and prevent them from having fun (and the good old silent majority which probably does care either way). I hope you can look at the last sentence and see how reasonable this would be to keep pvp on pvp servers, but make moving off them for those who desire to do so reasonable.
I get the rules on a PVP server but some of the harassment the OP has to endure in this thread is really sad.
People that complain about World PvP are often looking for "fair" PvP. This can be accomplished through organized PvP, or flagging yourself only when you want to PvP out in the world. In other words, "Roll on a PvE server." Why are people so stubborn? If people are sick of hearing this, they need to stop asking. Unless Blizzard makes massive changes to the game, this will always be the answer. May as well get used to it.

I originally rolled on a PvP server, and was sick of being ganked while leveling. I switched to a PvE server, and it sounds like that is what you need as well.
@Cocoa, that was one example. There are many other places, like the entire K2 area. Good luck even stepping foot in that town.

Blizz implemented higher level guards for a reason. Maybe they should make the guards able to one shot a 90, because seriously, taking over an entire town for weeks at a time...stupid.


Pvp problems have pvp solutions. Again this is a considered to be a legitimate tactic to ignite world pvp.


You do realize that CRZ is counter productive to world pvp?

Pre-CRZ
"Got ganked come help me!"
Guildies, people from cities, ect. would come help

Post-CRZ
"Got ganked come help me!"
Anyone that tries to come help gets loaded into anothers servers version of that zone, loaded into their own version while the ganker is left on a differnt one, ect Oh wait let me get my main! aw crap... wrong server....

You mentioned earlier about the OP not having a fundamental understanding of the feature yet you yourself also seem to lack an understanding of how it works. CRZ is detrimental to actual world pvp and causes less WPVP to actually happen, I saw more action happening in Cata and WotLK than i see now. Its counter productive to introduce a feature that takes away your ability to retaliate. Not to mention if you log off when ganked and log back on a couple of times, chances are you will get moved to a different server, negating the need to have anyone come help you.

The feature is counter productive to world pvp, it is simply productive to help corpse campers and that is all.

EDIT: PLEASE NOTE I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT PVP SERVERS NEED LESS PVP SIMPLY THAT THIS POSTER IS MISSING A HUGE PROBLEM. I really would love to see what would happen if blizzard allowed free transfers off any pvp server to any unbalanced or low pop pve servers.
I could try to reword a previous post by Daxx, but I'll just link it here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7320822467?page=5#85

The only thing I'd add to that is something I said over and over during BC when the big complaint was about Halaa: world PvP is not fair. We're not limiting who can do it, or in what amounts, and inherently some people will want to gank lower level players. Of course we later added areas like Wintergrasp and Tol Barad which attempted to balance the sides, but outside of those, world PvP is inherently unfair. Whether factions are imbalanced, or it's just a coward looking to trounce lowbies and run at the sight of an even-leveled player, world PvP is not fair. We've got battlegrounds and arenas if you want matched fights, and you can level almost exclusively in battlegrounds all the way to 90 if you want to, or dungeons for that matter.

The big issue here as I see it is that, and again Daxxarri's post above says it well, PvP realms weren't really proper PvP realms for many years, and now that they are again it's catching people off-guard. That doesn't change that they're working again as PvP realms. In most cases there's a solution to being ganked, whether it's calling on guildies or people from your faction, or escaping and hitting a different zone, BG, or dungeon for a while. We do have policies for very extreme cases when it crosses into [url="https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/player-vs-player-server-policy"]ongoing harassment[/url], but even being camped for hours is something everyone should be prepared for.

As it's been a fact of how PvP servers have worked since launch, it's not too surprising that others will respond with recommendations against being on that type of server if you don't want to accept everything that comes with it.

I like me some BGs, but leveling on PvP servers is just too frustrating. I've tried it, I hate it, and that's ok. It's not going to be for everyone.

+1. Thank you.
12/12/2012 07:40 PMPosted by Lometos
Why are people so stubborn?


That is a question for the ages.
12/12/2012 07:27 PMPosted by Stochastic
As it's been a fact of how PvP servers have worked since launch, it's not too surprising that others will respond with recommendations against being on that type of server if you don't want to accept everything that comes with it.


The thing is, it really *isn't* how PvP servers have worked in practice since launch. For the past 6+ years we have been rolling characters on PvP servers based on the PvP server experience - but with the institution of CRZ, that experience changed dramatically. There is *no way* I'd have created 11 alts on a PvP server if I had known the post-CRZ griefing spree was coming, but alas, they were created when PvP servers were fun and balanced and the griefing was at a moderate level.

Its fine that PvP servers are what they are now for those who desire this newfangled hyper-hardcore environment, but transfers are expensive for a whole server full of alts, and the types of blue responses we are getting make it kinda feel like a cash grab (i.e., working as intended, pay us $200+ to transfer if you don't like the new PvP padagrim). I feel like this would be a whole lot less of an issue if we were offered once off free PvP->PvE transfers for all characters and also guilds as a result of the change; that way only the people who want to be on the new PvP servers will be there and there will be no reason for people to complain about ganking/griefing.


Despite all it's bugs this is actually something that is right about CRZ. The world was not meant to be an empty place where you never have to interact with anyone, it's the same way I feel about harvesting. You are not experiencing anything because of CRZ that high pop realms didn't/don't experience.
12/12/2012 07:38 PMPosted by Pahanda
The thing is, it really *isn't* how PvP servers have worked in practice since launch.


Maybe your realm didn't get into it, but I played on Destromath (PvP) in Vanilla, and I remember how certain zones (STV) were simply no-man's-land for questing. Other zones (Hillsbrad) were constant back-and-forth gank fests with each faction taking their turn shutting down the opposite quest hub (Tarren Mill vs. Southshore).

And when BC launched, oh man, Hellfire Peninsula was FULL of PvP - stray too close to one of the PvP objectives, and you were splattered. All of the epic battles for Halaa (and fighting over warbeads and ogre spawns)... not to mention the epic PvP in the Isle of Quel'danas.

Wrath brought a resurgence to ganking new DKs in Hellfire Peninsula, not to mention epic battles over the Naxx (and later, Ulduar) summoning stones (this was back when you could be dismounted by knockbacks... the ground under Naxx was littered with player corpses).

Sethra's Roost, in Cataclysm, was one of the hottest spots on my server - you needed a full party to even have a prayer of completing quests there shortly after launch. And swimming mounts made Vashj'ir perfect for hit-and-run tactics.

With MoP... it's business as usual, on my PvP server. Open world ganking, back-and-forth balance changes depending on who's present. There have been plenty of times where I'm out, doing something innocent, like pet battles in a lower-level zone, only to have people complain about a ganker hitting a quest hub... and I fall on them like a ton of moonkin-shaped bricks.

Many players - myself included - love that. And a lot more don't.

The problem, quite simply, is that players got complacent about what life on a PvP server meant. They forgot just how mean and nasty it can be. And yes, some of the servers "mellowed out" a little.

But that doesn't change what they are.

So while "lol PvP happened" and "don't like it? reroll or transfer PvE" may be a bit blunt and rude... they're still the best explanations as to why you've got a corpse run and how to avoid it permanently, respectively.

It's not for everyone. But those of us who enjoy PvP servers appreciate that - and would encourage you to find a different server type, if it's not your style.
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"There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes." -- The Fourth Doctor (in "Robot")


Well written, and very similar to what I experienced from original wow on from rolling on a PVP server from the beginning.

The newer players simply have no idea what a PVP server used to be, and thank Blizzard for implementing CRZ, and bringing back the way it used to be.
12/12/2012 07:41 PMPosted by Jertzul
Anyone that tries to come help gets loaded into anothers servers version of that zone, loaded into their own version while the ganker is left on a differnt one, ect Oh wait let me get my main! aw crap... wrong server....


If I go to a CRZ zone on my server... I find the same people as my guildie does. Not 'different versions'.

Besides, that's completely remedied by having your buddy join group with you,.
12/12/2012 07:40 PMPosted by Valius
I get the rules on a PVP server but some of the harassment the OP has to endure in this thread is really sad.


People get annoyed when what the OP states has been addressed in thousands of times in thousands of threads on this this past week. Once he realized he made an !@# out of himself he gave up.


Pvp problems have pvp solutions. Again this is a considered to be a legitimate tactic to ignite world pvp.


You do realize that CRZ is counter productive to world pvp?

Pre-CRZ
"Got ganked come help me!"
Guildies, people from cities, ect. would come help

Post-CRZ
"Got ganked come help me!"
Anyone that tries to come help gets loaded into anothers servers version of that zone, loaded into their own version while the ganker is left on a differnt one, ect Oh wait let me get my main! aw crap... wrong server....

You mentioned earlier about the OP not having a fundamental understanding of the feature yet you yourself also seem to lack an understanding of how it works. CRZ is detrimental to actual world pvp and causes less WPVP to actually happen, I saw more action happening in Cata and WotLK than i see now. Its counter productive to introduce a feature that takes away your ability to retaliate. Not to mention if you log off when ganked and log back on a couple of times, chances are you will get moved to a different server, negating the need to have anyone come help you.

The feature is counter productive to world pvp, it is simply productive to help corpse campers and that is all.


I have a hard time believing you can't group with people to get them to the same zone as you... I have never had a problem getting to the same zone as someone I'm grouped with.

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