LFR loot system is deeply flawed.

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01/18/2013 08:18 AMPosted by Tempcharac
well, since loot drops are not guaranteed, why would you EVER expect loot to drop right when you want it to?


Because it's possible it will never drop, ever.


Which is what I said...
I thought (and still do) the loot system is exactly the same as before but it removes the "human" trait of needing on things removed.

The chance of getting the gear is the same.


Definitely not. I ran LFR in Cata on several characters a week and all of them got their tier, trinkets, weapons, shields, etc. I pretty much averaged a piece I needed 1-2 times a week and seldom did a character not get something by the time the week was out.
I thought (and still do) the loot system is exactly the same as before but it removes the "human" trait of needing on things removed.

The chance of getting the gear is the same.


Definitely not. I ran LFR in Cata on several characters a week and all of them got their tier, trinkets, weapons, shields, etc. I pretty much averaged a piece I needed 1-2 times a week and seldom did a character not get something by the time the week was out.
um, having a lucky streak then having an unlucky streak doesnt mean your chance to get loot is different during the unlucky streak...

you have never played poker, have you? =P
01/18/2013 08:32 AMPosted by Maladomini
Definitely not. I ran LFR in Cata on several characters a week and all of them got their tier, trinkets, weapons, shields, etc. I pretty much averaged a piece I needed 1-2 times a week and seldom did a character not get something by the time the week was out.


That's within expected statistical variation though. My main spent several weeks without getting what she wanted out of the old LFR. I had an alt that spent weeks trying to get one last piece (tier shoulders). She was wearing green ones until they finally dropped :P

Your experience is not necessarily standard for all of us, so please stop using it as firm data.
As I was saying.. all of my toons got their stuff. My druid has full gear for resto, and when I got tired of healing, I switched to tanking and she got all of that easily too.
01/18/2013 08:36 AMPosted by Karasuthra
As I was saying.. all of my toons got their stuff. My druid has full gear for resto, and when I got tired of healing, I switched to tanking and she got all of that easily too.


One data point is still not a statistically valid sample.

Kthx
01/18/2013 08:35 AMPosted by Amusia
Definitely not. I ran LFR in Cata on several characters a week and all of them got their tier, trinkets, weapons, shields, etc. I pretty much averaged a piece I needed 1-2 times a week and seldom did a character not get something by the time the week was out.


That's within expected statistical variation though. My main spent several weeks without getting what she wanted out of the old LFR. I had an alt that spent weeks trying to get one last piece (tier shoulders). She was wearing green ones until they finally dropped :P

Your experience is not necessarily standard for all of us, so please stop using it as firm data.


it's data enough for me.. Enough to tell me that something is definitely different when my mage/hunter/paladin/priest/druid can all be super geared from LFR in cata, in multiple specs and my warlock and mage cannot even approach that kind of luck in an even longer period of time.
01/18/2013 08:37 AMPosted by Amusia
As I was saying.. all of my toons got their stuff. My druid has full gear for resto, and when I got tired of healing, I switched to tanking and she got all of that easily too.


One data point is still not a statistically valid sample.

Kthx


I can definitely keep going..
01/18/2013 08:39 AMPosted by Pandæmonium


That's within expected statistical variation though. My main spent several weeks without getting what she wanted out of the old LFR. I had an alt that spent weeks trying to get one last piece (tier shoulders). She was wearing green ones until they finally dropped :P

Your experience is not necessarily standard for all of us, so please stop using it as firm data.


it's data enough for me.. Enough to tell me that something is definitely different when my mage/hunter/paladin/priest/druid can all be super geared from LFR in cata, in multiple specs and my warlock and mage cannot even approach that kind of luck in an even longer period of time.
having buddies in the raid roll for you is always going to increase your odds over only you rolling for you =P
01/18/2013 08:41 AMPosted by Githzerai


One data point is still not a statistically valid sample.

Kthx


I can definitely keep going..


Cool, do you have 30 characters, selected at random (not all yours), that all ran LFR for the exact same amount of time and had the same number of boss kills?

And 30 more to compare for the new system?

Because that approaches what you need.
After running a lot of LFR's... I've have yet to get any loot out of those bags, even with using my elder charms. I've seen a ridiculous number of complaints of duplicate loot. After 3 weeks of bags of "28 gold" I'm getting fed up that the effort I put into this, there zero results. I no longer see the point of it.

Blizz -- When will you fix the loot system to go back to the previous system, but refine need/greed per class and specialization. EX: Holy Pallys not rolling need on tank gear ect.


Huh? I armoried you and you have a fair amount of LFR gear on, so clearly you've been getting loot.
IMO the loot system sucks , The terrible drop % has nothing to do with RNG, I've killed sha now since week 1 and used roll tokens on every kill also 4 pairs of tier gloves and nothing else. Not 1 piece of pvp gear , with the old tol borad and wintergrasp bosses loot was a given if you were doing 20 man uniques. Three or four straight weeks in LFR HoF and not 1 piece has dropped for me using bonus rolls on the last 2 bosses for tier ,the entire group was complaining nothing but "double gold". What a miserable way to slow gear progression by gewing ppl with low drop rates. Also in your current system it's impossible to get offset non tier gear. The game would be much better with shorter ques.... if only those dps had offset Tank and Healing gear hint hint.
And wtf is with valor an entire weeks cap nets me zero gear, ffs loosen up that tight pouch


Back when Wrath first released I killed Archavon until Ulduar released without ever seeing a single piece of Enhancement gear, PvE or PvP.

Valor gear prices aren't new, either.

Naturally you're posting on an alt, too.

I thought (and still do) the loot system is exactly the same as before but it removes the "human" trait of needing on things removed.

The chance of getting the gear is the same.


Definitely not. I ran LFR in Cata on several characters a week and all of them got their tier, trinkets, weapons, shields, etc. I pretty much averaged a piece I needed 1-2 times a week and seldom did a character not get something by the time the week was out.


And you're running LFR now with several characters a week, doing all 16 bosses? Proof please.

Also, the old LFR could be just as stingy. I had my DK, Druid and Priest go weeks without loot from there.


it's data enough for me.. Enough to tell me that something is definitely different when my mage/hunter/paladin/priest/druid can all be super geared from LFR in cata, in multiple specs and my warlock and mage cannot even approach that kind of luck in an even longer period of time.
having buddies in the raid roll for you is always going to increase your odds over only you rolling for you =P


That is not something I participated in.
Simply being forced to take loot that we wouldn't have had to roll on in Cata, because we already had it, is proof enough that the system is flawed.
having buddies in the raid roll for you is always going to increase your odds over only you rolling for you =P


That is not something I participated in.
passing on loot is the same as rolling on loot in order to give it to a certain player - you are increasing other players odds by passing on your own odds at winning the loot or you are increasing one players odds by rolling on loot and giving it to them if you win
01/18/2013 09:03 AMPosted by Maladomini
Simply being forced to take loot that we wouldn't have had to roll on in Cata, because we already had it, is proof enough that the system is flawed.
the loot systems are different

the previous one was a group looting system - all loot was for the group and therefore could be PASSED to the group

the current one is a personal looting system - all loot is for the individual and therefore stays with the individual
01/18/2013 09:03 AMPosted by Maladomini
Simply being forced to take loot that we wouldn't have had to roll on in Cata, because we already had it, is proof enough that the system is flawed.
In Cata you were rolling against other people so there was a reason to pass. In MoP you're only rolling against the system. If you beat it you win, regardless of whether or not anyone else won. Under the old system 24 people could roll 99s but only the person who got a 100 won. Now if 25 people roll within the 86-100 range they all win loot. That's why there's no reason for you to pass. Even if you do pass, if the person who queued with you fails their roll they still get no loot.
as I already posted somewhere else - IMHO it's not so much a question if it's fair or not, it's the psychological difference of SEEING or NOT SEEING loot. No matter if you got loot in the old system or not, you knew it was there, it was an open roll and you had at least some indication that no one cheated. In the current implementation I always get the feeling that I'm cheated, especially if more than 30 chances for loot go by without anything dropping.

The current system also set's you up for a disappointment due to the gold-bag. There is absolutely no excitement about opening a bag that contains a ludicrously small amount of money.

You feel even more cheated by the system if something drops that you already have - or absolutely do not want (maybe because the trinket is crap for your style of play...). In the old system you at least could feel good by not rolling - or by rolling and handing it to someone else.

IMHO worst is the problem of SHA touched weapons. So you got this epic reward, and no chance to use it because it does not drop. There should be at least an alternative way (like collecting 50 shards - if you do LFR for 3 months you really have earned it no matter lucky drops). Otherwise the complete quest chain is simply a huge joke of the devs. (note: the 2 ways to get a weapon do not need to get you the same ilvl; the droped weapon could be a touch higher to make a difference).

I'm not arguing in any way if gearing up via LFR is good or bad. But consider these facts

a) gearing up is one main incentive to keep going (and paying your monthly fees)
b) not everyone has the inclination/time/skill to go even into regular 10man guild raiding
c) Blizz want's us to be out in the open and NOT hang around in our capitals
d) there is no server wide LFG channel to form PUGs

result: LFR is THE ONLY OPTION for many people to get better PVE loot

IMHO this makes it an absolute priority for Blizz to improve the experience of gearing via LFR. I think it ok that I have to run LFR for 2 to 3 months in a row to completely gear my char, but the current implementation leads to a lot of disappointment.

There should not go by a week clearing all 5 wings without a usable drop. You should not open 19 bags finding only a predetermined amount of gold. You should see a list of drops after every boss (not necessarily who got it though). You should see how good your own chances are and not have to rely on a hidden roll. And finally - you should not have to rely on a 5% chance to get a Sha touched weapon (at minimum introduce a way to get a 473 lvl blue)!

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