natures vigil being changed.

Druid
Balance does not need a nerf, we are one of the more balanced classes imo.
Honestly, by the time you get to the 505 ilvl you can use HOTW in place of NV and it's not that bad, so I think we'll be fine. I don't expect to use SOTF with NV every 90 seconds though.
12/23/2012 05:15 AMPosted by Phiasco
Balance does not need a nerf, we are one of the more balanced classes imo.


I'd argue you don't pvp if you feel that way. We need a movement dps solution and real defenses.
what i'm really tired of as a boomkin is the harshly unforgiving rotation. this is just giving us something else to screw up to lower our dps. hooray. im just glad that these are the first patch notes. hopefully something else will change to balance these out.
12/22/2012 09:53 AMPosted by Blackklisted
If you think this is just a change to ferals your crazy 90% of all moonkins picked the same talents. They are balancing the tree. So not every druid has to pick NV without choice.

The way to balance Tier 6 is to make it so the other two options aren't so terrible (for DPS specs).

Now, if the purpose of the NV change was to reduce burst while keeping the our average DPS *more or less* the same, it has accomplished that. Frankly, I don't know that Balance's performance warrants even a 1% nerf, so seeing something else brought up to make up the difference or even slightly buff us would be really nice, but I'm not going to cry myself to sleep about 1%.

However, if there was an additional purpose of trying to make the other talents more attractive, well... you're going to have to go much further than what's already been done. HotW and DoC are so poorly designed in terms of DPS viability that it would take a massive NV nerf if you want people to use them as they stand.

Of course, the other option is to actually make those two talents worthwhile. HotW doesn't have too far to go, and there are a variety of directions it could go in (make mooncatting more interesting/viable, for example -- part of this would include not losing the cat or moonkin aura buffs when shift out of those forms to DPS for the duration of HotW).

DoC, however, is broken and has been broken from the start. Without major changes it's never going to be attractive to a large part of the player population. Cats can get away with it a little better than moonkin can, due to more opportunities for instant cast HTs, but it's still no where near easy for them to use it. If DoC provides reliable and easy to use damage every 90s, why should the majority of players even bother with DoC?

TL;DR NV change *might* fix burst, won't change it being the best choice for that tier.
To everyone who is saying that DC will then be better than NV if it goes through, could someone explain that to me? You'd have to exit cat form and hard cast the heals to get the damage; or I guess if you used it with a 5cp finishing move for a Predator's Swiftness. Even then though, just doesn't seem like a huge DPS increase, 25% extra damage on maybe a total of 6 attacks over 30 secs or 10% overall damage for 30 seconds. DC seems very situational and needs to be planned.

Even with the nerf to NV, I'd still take HotW over DC for the non-situational 6% bonus agi.

You don't, that's how Predatory Swiftness works (Nature spells castable in Cat Form, includes Healing Touch).
I personally would like to see HoTW mooncat again, return the scaling factors for moonkin and for kitties while leaving the resto druid catform a bit less bursty.

DoC needs 100% scrapped, I do not care even slightly if it is marginally easier for one spec or another to benefit from it. The basic requirement/effect of the ability is annoying. I would rather see an entirely new talent in its place, hell, rogues are getting a new talent so its not like redesign (rather then simple rebalance) is off the table.
I personally would like to see HoTW mooncat again, return the scaling factors for moonkin and for kitties while leaving the resto druid catform a bit less bursty.

DoC needs 100% scrapped, I do not care even slightly if it is marginally easier for one spec or another to benefit from it. The basic requirement/effect of the ability is annoying. I would rather see an entirely new talent in its place, hell, rogues are getting a new talent so its not like redesign (rather then simple rebalance) is off the table.

HOTW isn't viable unless you run absolute minimal Mastery. Haste for Mooncatting would be really good too.
I'd rather see nature's vigil offer 10% damage with it's 3 minute cooldown. But offer passive crit or haste
12/23/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Slyzore
I'd rather see nature's vigil offer 10% damage with it's 3 minute cooldown. But offer passive crit or haste

That would be really neat! I've always been a fan of tacking passive benefits onto usable abilities.
HOTW isn't viable unless you run absolute minimal Mastery. Haste for Mooncatting would be really good too.
Oh, I know...but if there was ever a time to wish for a redesign, or at least a second look at a talant...now is the time. The complete ineffectiveness of mastery in mooncat really does not help its scaling.
I look forward to this change, doubling the uptime of NV healing will be awesome for bears!
12/23/2012 09:28 PMPosted by Sarella
I look forward to this change, doubling the uptime of NV healing will be awesome for bears!


people seam to forget that the heals that are produced by NV are tied to the damage produced under NV. we will be doing less damage under NV hence less heals produced
I look forward to this change, doubling the uptime of NV healing will be awesome for bears!

people seam to forget that the heals that are produced by NV are tied to the damage produced under NV. we will be doing less damage under NV hence less heals produced

For bears, it's an OH CRAP cd when we or another melee need healing, so it's a little less effective (still not bad) and half the cd, so we can use it more. Not bad. not bad.

BUT WAIT I HAVE SOME AMAZING IDEAS FOR HOTW AND DOC.

HOTW - Simple solution to boost it = 10% instead of 6%.
OUTRAGEOUS SOLUTION = when activated, grants the benefits of every single form at once....I know....i know...but think...buahahahahaha

DoC - The issue with this one is the complications that it brings. I don't know why we just dont have a 30 sec CD that "increases the dmg/healing of your next dmg/healing by 25%" Then we could proc it every 30 sec with our rip/moon/sunfire, and stack it with TF with ferals.

Thoughts?
12/23/2012 09:54 PMPosted by Shyloh
people seam to forget that the heals that are produced by NV are tied to the damage produced under NV. we will be doing less damage under NV hence less heals produced


Barely. I'll take 8% weaker NV heals for double the uptime any day.
12/23/2012 09:54 PMPosted by Shyloh
people seam to forget that the heals that are produced by NV are tied to the damage produced under NV. we will be doing less damage under NV hence less heals produced


12/24/2012 12:08 AMPosted by Ahanss
Barely. I'll take 8% weaker NV heals for double the uptime any day.
Basically what Ahanss said.

It's actually a dps buff for Guardians if we use it on cooldown. Granted that's not generally how things work in reality, but we'll get more uses of out of it per encounter than we would previously - especially at high vengeance.

Not to mention it's a HUGE heal buff.
Pft, this nerf to NV won't stop us from critting for large amounts of damage.
It's actually a dps buff for Guardians if we use it on cooldown. Granted that's not generally how things work in reality, but we'll get more uses of out of it per encounter than we would previously - especially at high vengeance.


Isn't it a slight dps nerf because we used to be able to have Incarnation up for 100% of the NV, and now we can use Incarnation for every 2nd NV, and Beserk for every second NV, but we'll end up not mangle-spamming for 33% of our NV up-time?

Either way it is a large buff to the healing component for Feral/Moonkin/Guardian, and as a Guardian I am looking forward to the change :-)
12/26/2012 09:19 AMPosted by Vorticose
Isn't it a slight dps nerf because we used to be able to have Incarnation up for 100% of the NV, and now we can use Incarnation for every 2nd NV, and Beserk for every second NV, but we'll end up not mangle-spamming for 33% of our NV up-time?

Spamming Mangle during Incarnation/Berserk (which is what you use it for) is actually a DPS loss at high Vengeance since Lacerate actually scales better.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum